440 assistance

[TylerCharger69]

Hello everybody. I have just acquired an engine and transmission in excellent shape for $200.00.  It's a 440 that was removed from a 1970 Plymouth Fury.  That being said...the car was a Halletsville, Texas sheriff department squad car.  This engine was never torn apart from what I can tell, but looking on the inside it was maintained very well. Very, very clean.  My question is, on the stamping block it reads: T 440 E HP.  And that's it.  I'm leaning toward putting a six-pack set up on it as due to my research, the internals are six-pack such as rods, etc.  Any more info would help!!!   Thanks all!!!  It's nice to be back!!   Ace

[mopar0166]

kinda in the same boat, i know a 69 never had a six pac but since its never going to be orginal any way what he**

what does it take to convert a stock 440 short block to have it ready to run a six pack?     

[Rolling_Thunder]

well the six pack specific rods are not needed to make a six pack motor...      they were introduced in the 1970 model year - the easy way to tell is the six pack specific balancer...   due to the rids being heavier than the stock 440 rods the harmonic balancer was physically different...

In 1969 the six pack motor was introduced as a different camshaft and valve springs as well as the induction set up....      that was it...     it only had stock connecting rods...     

[mopar_nut_440_6]

The engine is a 69! A 70 would be an F code block.

A six pack will bolt onto any stock headed 440 with no issues as long as the heads have not been milled too much. Excessive milling can cause leaking issues as the ports will be positioned  closer to the top of the block and sealing becomes a problem.

The six pack rods are not necessary to run a six pack. They were heavier and stronger but a stock 440 rod in my experience is a very tough piece and lighter than the 6 pack rod. I have heard that the 6 pack rods extra mass was used to help the 440 rev a bit quicker due to the mass. Whether that is true or not I am not sure!

[jerry]

T 440 E HP is not a 69 440.       E 440 is a 69 block.

[TylerCharger69]

well...I know it has the 6 pack internals judging by the balancer and the rods. It was a police interceptor engine. (if that means anything) and...I know that it doesn't require the six pack internals to run a six-pack because a 6 pack manifold will bolt right on.  It also has an electronic ignition and the distributor has 2 pick up magnets in it where my 383 distributor only has one.  I'm just kicking around the 6 pack idea anyway since this IS a 440 and the sky is the limit for this monster.  Haven't decided anything concrete for that yet. (my 383 original engine and transmission will be up for sale by the way)  Any input on what I should do with this engine (budget permitting) I'd love to hear them. My goal is to get 450 to 475 horses out of it. And there is absolutely NO sludge of any kind inside of this motor. It was very well maintained apparently.

[TylerCharger69]

tell me what it is Jerry....that's my main interest!!! Please!!!!

[mikepmcs]

Holy crap....Welcome back Ace!!!!

I'm searching by the way....

Mike

[mikepmcs]

I believe this is what it means.

T-Assy Plant  Trenton (400 and 440 only)

440

E- Built in 1969

HP- High Performance?

I think this is what it means.

[mopar_nut_440_6]

I believe this is what it means.

T-Assy Plant  Trenton (400 and 440 only)

440

E- Built in 1969

HP- High Performance?

I think this is what it means.

I used to paint cars with an older gentleman who worked at the Trenton plant in the 60's and 70's. He was an avid racer and was all over the engines at that time.

He said that when the 440 blocks came down the line they did not want to make two different blocks for a 350 horse 440 or a 375 horse so they would deck a 440 block 0.050 and stamp it HP. The decked block would yield a half point more compression and with the different carb would make the 375 horse engine. Of course different cam and carb. I would tend to believe him as he was a total motor head and there in the heyday and I would have no reason not to believe him. If this story is incorrect somebody let me know so I do not pass more BS on!

He had a brand new 70 44-6 pack Roadrunner and a 70 TA Challenger at the same time. He told me stories about taking camshafts home up the sleeves of his jacket and lifters in his lunch box!

Good times!

[maxwellwedge]

Is there a VIN on the pad? If not, does the pad have its milling marks?

[TylerCharger69]

It does have the milling marks...pretty obvious actually.  Here is exactly how the stamping looks:

               T   440   E HP
     
               7

I don't know if that number seven has any significance, but that's all that's on the stamp pad.  No diamonds indicating undersize crank or overboring are present.  I would really like to know what the cam grind is on this engine. Being a police interceptor, does that make a difference???

[maxwellwedge]

I meant the lower pad above the pan rail.

T means Trenton engine plant like someone already mentioned.
The T showed up from 74-78.

[hemigeno]

A casting number and casting date might help a whole bunch too...

AFAIK, an "E" which comes after the engine displacement numbers indicates a cast crank rather than being the alphanumeric year code.

Later year 440s had a T which meant Trenton as others have stated, but there was also usually a number in front of the T which denoted which year from the 1970 decade it came from... for example, 6 T 440 E would be a 1976 model year 440 engine made/machined at the Trenton engine plant with a cast crank.

[TylerCharger69]

Sorry....my bad.  That particular pad, above the passenger side oil pan, as best as I can tell reads:

        4 D 185526

And there are obvious mill marks there too.  I'm not sure about the 4 and the D as they are weak stampings and only the tops of them are present.  I assume the 185526 is the vin.

[maxwellwedge]

A casting number and casting date might help a whole bunch too...

AFAIK, an "E" which comes after the engine displacement numbers indicates a cast crank rather than being the alphanumeric year code.

Later year 440s had a T which meant Trenton as others have stated, but there was also usually a number in front of the T which denoted which year from the 1970 decade it came from... for example, 6 T 440 E would be a 1976 model year 440 engine made/machined at the Trenton engine plant with a cast crank.

Which would explain the external balanced harmonic balancer. The "blob" is for the cast crank - not a 6-Pack style.

[mikepmcs]

I got my info from this page.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/20.html

[flyinlow]

Its got a cop engine,cop brakes,cops shock.   (blues brothers)


I used a 72 440 cop car engine for a build 30 years ago. Six pack rods. still running. Put it in a 68 RT 500 and sold the original engine. Oops!

My machine shop said six pack rods are unnessary weight. The LK'  rods with good bolts are fine for a 500 hp street motor. Lighter and with lighter SRP pistons easier on the bearings.

Fowler builds blown alcohol hemis . I took his advice for the 446 for my 73 , a 475 hp build ,so far,so good. 

[firefighter3931]

Tyler, have a look at the harmonic balancer....this will help identify what rotating assembly is present inside the block. I'll post some pics and you tell us which balancer is on your 440 


*The 6-pack balancer is thin like the forged crank balancer but has a scalloped weight welded to the face for the external balance with the heavier 6-pack connecting rods. see pic #2




Ron

[TylerCharger69]

Okay....mine is the cast crank (the fat balancer which is tapered toward the front)  Any idea on that factory camshaft grind though?  Or....any recommendations on one without altering the internals too much???  And also...the distributor....It has two pick up magnets instead of just one. Any reason as to why???  Jeeeeez!!!  I didn't realize how many differences there were from the 383 to the 440 other than the obvious ones!!!  I called the guy I bought the engine from.  He informed me that the police car was a '78 either a gran Monaco or a Gran Fury.  (I never saw the car...just the engine and transmission)  Sorry for that mix up....but it is indeed a '78  if that solves any mysteries!!!

[mopar_nut_440_6]

A casting number and casting date might help a whole bunch too...

AFAIK, an "E" which comes after the engine displacement numbers indicates a cast crank rather than being the alphanumeric year code.

Later year 440s had a T which meant Trenton as others have stated, but there was also usually a number in front of the T which denoted which year from the 1970 decade it came from... for example, 6 T 440 E would be a 1976 model year 440 engine made/machined at the Trenton engine plant with a cast crank.

Great information. Thanks for the information. I just learn new things everyday on this site!

[maxwellwedge]

Okay....mine is the cast crank (the fat balancer which is tapered toward the front)  Any idea on that factory camshaft grind though?  Or....any recommendations on one without altering the internals too much???  And also...the distributor....It has two pick up magnets instead of just one. Any reason as to why???  Jeeeeez!!!  I didn't realize how many differences there were from the 383 to the 440 other than the obvious ones!!!  I called the guy I bought the engine from.  He informed me that the police car was a '78 either a gran Monaco or a Gran Fury.  (I never saw the car...just the engine and transmission)  Sorry for that mix up....but it is indeed a '78  if that solves any mysteries!!!

Dual Distributor pick-up is either something to do with the Lean-Burn system or a top fuel ignition starting retard system

[oldkimmer]

...........E = cast crank....................it will have a 383-440 magnum camshaft.+ the single vs with the dampner...........double roller tc+gears...and a windage tray...................kim...............

[TylerCharger69]

Cool  Kim.....thanx!!!   I haven't been into the engine that deep yet, but that would probably be the 3-bolt camshaft?   Or could it still be a single bolt?  And one other question...I bought this engine and it had a Quadrajet on it (Rochester)  Surely Chrysler didn't use those carbs right?   Correct me if I'm wrong please.  I always thought that that was a GM carb.  And as far as the distributor goes...I know that the main connector is what sends the signal but where does the other one connect to since it has dual magnetic pick-ups in it  and do I even need it?   If I were to use that same distributor of course.

[TylerCharger69]

I believe this is what it means.

T-Assy Plant  Trenton (400 and 440 only)

440

E- Built in 1969

HP- High Performance?

I think this is what it means.

I used to paint cars with an older gentleman who worked at the Trenton plant in the 60's and 70's. He was an avid racer and was all over the engines at that time.

He said that when the 440 blocks came down the line they did not want to make two different blocks for a 350 horse 440 or a 375 horse so they would deck a 440 block 0.050 and stamp it HP. The decked block would yield a half point more compression and with the different carb would make the 375 horse engine. Of course different cam and carb. I would tend to believe him as he was a total motor head and there in the heyday and I would have no reason not to believe him. If this story is incorrect somebody let me know so I do not pass more BS on!

He had a brand new 70 44-6 pack Roadrunner and a 70 TA Challenger at the same time. He told me stories about taking camshafts home up the sleeves of his jacket and lifters in his lunch box!

Good times!