Painting a Hemi Charger (Mon. update W/ new pics Pg. 2)

[charge69]

OK people,  my Charger is almost ready to paint! Had to wait almost a year for a couple of body pieces to be available from AMD but, now they are all here and it is almost ready to paint.  Original color is R6 Red w/ white vinyl top and R/T stripe.  It is gonna be R6 again for sure but I am torn between painting it with either acrylic enamel, like originally from the factory, or painting it base coat/clear coat. 

I am leaning towards acrylic enamel even though the paint is at least 3 times more expensive. The person painting it has done 2 MOPARS (his own) before, a 1974 Challenger and a 1969 Roadrunner, and used acrylic enamel on both and they look amazing! So shiny people think it is a base coat/clear coat paint job. The Chally is an older restoration, done about 6 years ago and he drives it fairly regularly, and still looks like a new paint job.

When all is said and done, the sanding and buffing are about the same on either job.

So.........................what do you think?  Acrylic enamel or base coat/clear coat?

[tan top]

single stage acrylic     defiantly ..   thought about base & clear when i done mine  , but  i think it looks false ! its  ok with metallic   !! but solid colors as   awesome as it is  though , for me too shiny !!  they were never like that when new !!  ... don't get me wrong guys .... base & clear  looks awasome &  always looks great   ,   just my opinion ... 

[maxwellwedge]

Acrylic Enamel on all of my stuff. Looks right. 

[hemi-hampton]

If you want to go for a original look then you would not want to wet sand & rub. Once you do this (sand & rub) it then looks like a BC/CC LEON.

[charge69]

I understand about the sanding and buffing but, I would want it to look really nice and would have to do some sanding and buffing. I do plan to drive the car some and I know acrylic enamel is much easier to repair if stone chipped or scratched, heaven forbid!  

I have been leaning toward acrylic enamel all along and probably will go with it.   Look for pictures in a short while!  We had to replace the whole rear of the car except for the frame rails (amazingly rust free), the inner fenderwells and most of the outer fenderwells. I bought new outer fenderwells for it and my restorer just cut the outer-bottom 3 inches off the old ones as the were bad where they attach to the quarters and cut the pieces off the new ones with a plasma cutter. Then he TIG-welded the new pieces to the old ones to use as much of the originals as we could. Beautiful work!  He is an artist with metal!  Everything else is new except for the left trunk rail with my original numbers on it ( it was rust-free and complete! ) and the trunk lid! 

Coming out awesome! All parts that were spot-welded at the factory have been spot-welded in place again! Seriously, he bought a spot-welder just for my car and we have been using the hell out of it! About 200 spot-welds on the one-piece trunk floor alone! Leaving the splatter on the welds just like the factory did. Rear quarters will be fitted and the whole back end will be welded in next Monday if all goes well.  Spot-welder will get another workout! 

After the quarter are installed, we will paint the shell.  The doors and front fenders will be painted separately.    R6  Acrylic enamel it is!

[maxwellwedge]

True - You want some peel.  

[maxwellwedge]

I understand about the sanding and buffing but, I would want it to look really nice and would have to do some sanding and buffing. I do plan to drive the car some and I know acrylic enamel is much easier to repair if stone chipped or scratched, heaven forbid!  

I have been leaning toward acrylic enamel all along and probably will go with it.   Look for pictures in a short while!  We had to replace the whole rear of the car except for the frame rails (amazingly rust free), the inner fenderwells and most of the outer fenderwells. I bought new outer fenderwells for it and my restorer just cut the outer-bottom 3 inches off the old ones as the were bad where they attach to the quarters and cut the pieces off the new ones with a plasma cutter. Then he TIG-welded the new pieces to the old ones to use as much of the originals as we could. Beautiful work!  He is an artist with metal!  Everything else is new except for the left trunk rail with my original numbers on it ( it was rust-free and complete! ) and the trunk lid! 

Coming out awesome! All parts that were spot-welded at the factory have been spot-welded in place again! Seriously, he bought a spot-welder just for my car and we have been using the hell out of it! About 200 spot-welds on the one-piece trunk floor alone! Leaving the splatter on the welds just like the factory did. Rear quarters will be fitted and the whole back end will be welded in next Monday if all goes well.  Spot-welder will get another workout! 

After the quarter are installed, we will paint the shell.  The doors and front fenders will be painted separately.    R6  Acrylic enamel it is!

If you are going Acrylic Enamel for the factory look why do the rest of the car like a Chevy?

Paint it all together like Mom did!

[maxwellwedge]

Here is my AAR painted all at once - 2 painters at once (ala factory), acrylic enamel, all together (except hood not on being fibreglass - otherwise it would have been on as well).

[maxwellwedge]

And my B7 Swinger with white painted roof - same procedure as my AAR. And it will be the same on my Hemi Charger.

[hemi68charger]

Carl !!!  That's awesome. Looks like we won't be able to get our Hemi Chargers together, but yeah, a wing and a hemi next to each other would be cool !!!!!  Oh, wait, our fearless leader Geno has both !!!!!   

Can't wait to see it....

Troy

[charge69]

Hey Troy, how you doin' ?  Can't believe you are selling the Daytona!  The other one you want must be real nice!   Good luck with your quest!  Been a long wait for body parts but we are getting after it now!

We still have some repair work to do on the right front fender and the doors need the door-dings knocked out and to be filled and sanded and he wants them perfect before we paint them. His other restoration were painted this way and I trust him to do it right. I helped him with the '69 Roadrunner and it came out fabulous doing it this way. That paint (Go Mango)was much harder to get right than mine will be. Hood and trunk lid both have a little work to do yet. 

Maxwell,  your cars look fantastic! I had a 1971 Swinger and dearly miss the old girl. I would be afraid to do the painting myself so......one painter and a great paint booth and it will get done.

[charge69]

Here are a couple of pics from about a month ago when he finished cutting it up as much as he felt he had to!! Notice he built a custom fitted jig to hold everything straight so we could keep it on the rotisserie and work on it! Scared the hell out of me but, it is all lining up great! The last pieces to line up are the quarters and we will do that Monday! I will put some "after the repair" pics up next week. You will not believe the difference!

[69*F5*SE]

Cool during pics.  Lots of work being done.  Will be nice.   

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Love the pics and that is a nice jig. It will be nice to see it painted!

[hemi-hampton]

What Kind of Spot welder is he using? Got a Pic of it. All the spot welders I've used & seen all have the big vise grip type of arms on them. These are only good for spot welding edges as it won't reach far inside the car. How did he spot weld the one peice floor to the fram rails? Like to see this LEON.

[tan top]

    some metal work going on there !! like the jig also 
keep the pictures coming Dude love looking at stuff like this !!

might have a lot of different spot weld arms ..can get them all shapes  & different lengths    ..may be he single sided it 

hey Carl  do you know what dealer your car was  sold at 

[hemi68charger]

Here are a couple of pics from about a month ago when he finished cutting it up as much as he felt he had to!! Notice he built a custom fitted jig to hold everything straight so we could keep it on the rotisserie and work on it! Scared the hell out of me but, it is all lining up great! The last pieces to line up are the quarters and we will do that Monday! I will put some "after the repair" pics up next week. You will not believe the difference!

Wow !!!!!!  Carl !!! Man, it's amazing how much paint can hide. When I visited you a few years ago it no where near looked like it needed that much.... Sounds like you have the car in good hands.......

My current Daytona is awesome, but I have found a 4-speed.. We'll see what happens..........Regardless, there's going to be winged Dodge driving the streets of Houston again...

Troy

[charge69]

Hi Guys, just got off work! I work day shifts on weekends and am off on Mon. and Tues. !    I will get some pics of the trunk floor spot welds on Monday and the other stuff we are spot welding.  I do not know the brand of Spot welder he bought but, it was bought at a welding supply store with the 18" visegrip-like arms for around $1800.00 and we knew it would not reach everywhere but, lo and behold, a friend that has a restoration shop told us he had a spot-welder that he had never used and we were welcome to borrow it. He wasn't even sure it worked as it was an old unit he had got somewhere a long time ago.  It was very dirty but cleaned up great and works like a charm and has two separate heavy cabled leads with copper tips that really need two people to operate it.  Talk about working like a charm! Used it everywhere the clamp-like arms would not reach. I will take a pic of it also! 

Funny thing about the old spot welder, we were using it and I had a deadline to leave his house/workshop by 4pm the first day we tried it. We both last looked at our watches around 2:15pm and then started screwing around with the welder and using it to position the trunk floor for the first time. In what seemed like a very short time, both our watches said it was 4pm so I gathered up my stuff and left. A little ways down the road, I looked at the clock in the truck and it said 2:40pm!  I called my friend and he said he was wondering what time it really was too as the clocks in the house said the same thing. Turns out we both had our watches on the same arm we were using to spot-weld and the magnetic force caused both our watches to advance about 10 to 15 minutes with every spot-weld!  Both are quartz watches and his cell phone that was in his pocket went haywire for a few days too!

[charge69]

Tan Top:    I am the third owner of this car.  My brother worked with the second owner and turned me on to the car waaaay back in 1976!  The fella I bought it from had owned it from 1971 until I bought it and had, thankfully left it almost completely stock and had used it for a daily driver back then!  The story I got from him was that the car was originally bought somewhere on the East Coast and had been to the Petty shop for an engine balancing and super tune when new.  I cannot verify that but it had 78,000 miles on it when I bought it and it revved like an electric motor, smooth and fast.  Nothing to tell me where it was bought originally but, I did find 2 build sheets in the car when we tore it down!  One behind the back seat cushion and one under the front passenger floor well carpet.  Neither in the best shape but, together, it makes a complete one that is definitely for my car!

Born-on-date of my Charger is 3/14/1969, a Friday. It is/was put together pretty well for a "Friday" Car and it is still all numbers matching.  R6 Red, white vinyl top, white interior and white R/T stripe  426, 727 auto, 8 3/4 suregrip with 3.23 gears.  As I said, I bought it in 1976 and drove it until about 1981 before putting it in a garage to wait for the restoration.  Hard times prevailed for me for a long time and many offers on the car were generous but I held out, hoping to get the money to restore it someday.  That day has come!

The engine will be built with driving it in mind and will be fast! I will make the lower end bulletproof to protect the original block but it will be a "runner"!  That 3.23 rearend made it a real cruiser back in the day but was suprisingly fast from 20mph up!

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Hey Carl I had no idea your car was that bad rust wise....thats some metal artwork going on there.   Waiting patiently to see nice & fresh R6 on that beauty.

Good luck!

PS--you & I have the same work schedule

[tan top]

   ......    intresting story Carl  & to know the history     wow owned since 76 .... that was the time to buy em    petty done a number on the motor ..might have petty enterprises stamped somewhere i be you have some storys to tell  , back in the day 
    thanks for sharing  !!  love  reading about anything like this   

[charge69]

You know, as Troy said , he looked at it and it did not look near as bad as it was! When we got it down to the shell and had it acid dipped, a lot of the back of the car was GONE!  What was left was so bad we just decided to get rid of it all and get new sheetmetal and hope for the best. All the sheetmetal is AMD and a couple of pieces, the package tray and lower rear window support, were a loooonnng time in coming! The AMD metal is not perfect but is very close and fairly easy for my restorer to fix. He is doing a great job. Only metal not AMD on the car are the outer wheelwell pieces, cut from Goodmark items, the lower end caps and some patchwork that he is doing from scratch. He hand formed and TIG welded a few areas including the left (drivers side) rear upper roof area where it meets the quarter.

Wait til I post some pics Monday evening of the work that has been completed! It WILL be ARTWORK!

I am an Air Traffic Controller here in Houston and have a crazy work schedule!

Tan Top:  just to make some people cry, I bought the car for $700.00 in 1976!  Numbers Matching Hemicar!  It was a steal even back then!

[tan top]

Tan Top:  just to make some people cry, I bought the car for $700.00 in 1976!  Numbers Matching Hemicar!  It was a steal even back then!

     Damn      if we could only go back in time Eh or if we knew then what we now now 

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Tan Top:  just to make some people cry, I bought the car for $700.00 in 1976!  Numbers Matching Hemicar!  It was a steal even back then!

Great deal. I thought I did well buying a decent driving 68 RT 440 4 speed numbers matching for $6000 in 1983. 

I am surprised just how rusty this stuff is considering the easy life many of them have had. Not winter driven and looke dafter and still needing most of the rear sheetmetal and pans. The beaters I have driven that are looked after much worse go and go and the bodies are pretty fair. I guess that is what 20 years difference in paint and body methods make!

[charge69]

OK, I am tired and ready for a rest.  Got some pics to share today.   First......the spot welders as someone asked to see them , especially the one we used to reach the framerails when doing the trunk floor.



The old one is made in Ontario Canada no telling how long ago but it works great. Another pic of the leads.




Next is the one-piece trunk floor. The markings are where the original spot-welds were and we went back and put them in the same place!

[charge69]

Next......the rear tail assembly!  All spot-welded in!







The package tray/ lower rear window support area .  This area was completely rusted away and the wait for a package tray and lower rear window support was almost a year!



cont.

[charge69]

More photos:    This is the underside of the trunk floor and is a wide area shot showing the torque boxes and the built-up pinion shubber area on the Hemicars!



A picture of my friend and restorer working on the outer wheel well housing graft he did!  Got to get it right!





Again,  the numbers and marking were used to mark the original spot-welds and to put them back where they were from the factory!

[charge69]

A couple of more pics.    This is the rough-fitting of the left rear quarter! It went OK but still lots to do to make it right.  The end rounded end caps between the lower quarter and the rear roll pan is a nightmare!  Gonna take some seroius massaging to get them to work! I gueess it is expected when you replace the WHOLE BACK of the car!!






And finally.......My restorers new ride!!!!!!      2009 6spd SRT Challenger!  He is using it as his daily driver for now!  We went to get a burger at lunch and it is a FINE ride!

[mikepmcs]

Nice work.   

[69*F5*SE]

Man, all them spotwelds look like factory.   

[hemi-hampton]

Yeah, That looks good, I've used a few different spot welders with the vise clamp type of arms, My arms were shorter so less reach. Those things are heavy too. I like that other Antique set up, thats what I need. Not sure if they are still made like that nowadays? Now my Questions is doesn't take 2 people to operate the antique welder & if so how do you know when the guy on top & guy underneath are holding the spot welder tips directly over the top of each other since you cant see thru the floor LEON.

[roger01]

youve got to split those valance  corners from top to bottom and add about 3/8 material to them ....mine fit pretty good after that advice i got on here some where

[Charger-Bodie]

Yeah, That looks good, I've used a few different spot welders with the vise clamp type of arms, My arms were shorter so less reach. Those things are heavy too. I like that other Antique set up, thats what I need. Not sure if they are still made like that nowadays? Now my Questions is doesn't take 2 people to operate the antique welder & if so how do you know when the guy on top & guy underneath are holding the spot welder tips directly over the top of each other since you cant see thru the floor LEON.

Leon,

you can still buy the Lenco-spot, which is what I have. It looks almost like the 2 handled one in the above pics,and it works awesome. I got mine at a body shop auction for 200.00 dollars about 15 years ago. you can still buy the same thing new for like 1200.00.....Well worth it IMHO Way easier than drillin holes, welding them shut, applying and sanding filler then primer etc etc....

With the spot welder I just clean the blue away for the weld seal and paint.


Here is a link to a new one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LENCO-MARK-ll-L-400O-AUTO-BODY-SPOT-WELDER_W0QQitemZ250329705639QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Welders?hash=item3a48d02ca7&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

.....And a used one:http://cgi.ebay.com/LENCO-Lencospot-Mark-II-Duo-Spot-Welder-L-4000-Z_W0QQitemZ400055160087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Welders?hash=item5d25254d17&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


The used one would need new cables because its got some odd cables on it.

[charge69]

Good question Leon!   That is the reason for the markings as much as where they were originally welded!  We had to mark both sides of the floor with measurements so BOTH of us could get close to the same spot! So....yes, it took 2 of us to do it and it was a little tricky to get it right but, taking the time to measure and mark each weld is the trick! We intentionally left the splatter from the welds to give it the "factory welded" look!  When painted, you will still see the splatter painted over like it was from Mother MOPAR!  

I am very proud of the work we are doing and this car is gonna be awesome when finished!  

By the way, my car was completely painted on the underside with R6 from the factory, no  primer was showing. I have "before" pics to document this. The frame rails as well as the wheelwells were undercoated too.  Not the whole underside so, it must have been done at the factory.  When we paint it, it will look that way too!

[charge69]

Roger01,  We are coming to that conclusion but they had to be recontoured also as they did not have the needed curves to line up on both the quarter and the roll pan!  What a pain!  They should fit better than that for the price you pay for them!  Looking at a couple of options and they WILL be right in the final assembly!   

My friend's 1969 Roadrunner had a lot of rust and he had to do some major repair. It was a Pennsylvania car and had a lot of problems!  His Dutchman panel was a problem and he just welded it in and cut grooves in the welds to look like the factory seam. You would not be able to tell, I swear and it is better than a factory job as it will never have a problem there!