road handling performance

[c00nhunterjoe]

are there aftermarket kits/components out there to make our cars "hug" the corners? the 69 charger leaves a bit to be desired for twists and turns at speed and i would loke to upgrade a good bit. i have found heavier front sway bars and nice rear bar kits. i have also found much beefier torsion bars. but what about control arms and rear springs? has anybody beefed up their suspensions?

[BROCK]

Ah but of course there are - from XV Motorsports all the way to
studying up everywhere you can.  The first is mega dollars & the
last is getting it just right for you.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Here's what I have

torque boxes
subframe connectors
torsion bars .96"
sway bars   1 3/8" & 1"
XHD leaf springs
tubular upper control arms
boxed lower control arms
XV inner fender braces
XV rad support brace
Edelbrock IAS shocks

[HPP]

Whats your budget? Whats your intended usage? How much "bling" do you need?

For as low as a few  hundred dollars you can get a new alignment, step up sway bar, t-bar, and spring sizes and get reasonable results that significantly imrpove your driving experience. The other end of that is many, many thousands of dollars for fabricated, semi custom parts that will make your car unique at almost every show you go to.

[bordin34]

If you don't currently have a front sway bar, put one on it is a night and day difference. From there you can get subframe connectors and other chassis stiffening stuff, larger t-bars, Mike Musto (Mr. Angry) has done a lot to his 68 and if you look at his thread it would help.

[c00nhunterjoe]

my suspension is bone stock, it does have the front bar on it. i cant imagine driving this car without one.

[c00nhunterjoe]

anybody ever dealt with these guys?
http://www.firmfeel.com/b.htm

[Mike DC]

 
The factory suspension geometry on Chargers wasn't nearly as bad as the GM & Ford cars of the era.  So aftermarket control arms & spindles for a Charger would not produce the same big gains that they do on those brands.  That, coupled with the fact that torsion bar suspension isn't as easy to make parts for as the other brands, has led to much less aftermarket suspension parts being sold for these cars.   


Basically, the factory suspension was fine except for the problems caused by designing it for bias-ply tires instead of radials and the no-feel steering that everyone seemed to want in that era.  Fix those two issues and there won't be many more big serious complaints about the rest of the stock system. 

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But before you do all that, what are you dealing with here? 

If you're complaining about a suspension that's got a bunch of decades-old bushings and a worn out steering box . . . before you get crazy with beefing it up, remember that just rebuilding the stock setup would be a big improvement over what you've got. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

my steering is tight, no torn bushings, no squeeks no rattles. i have no steering "wander" from a loose box. i am bitching about the "no feel" power steering and horrifc body roll if i take some turns.... hell, if i make a hard lane change you can damn near get a wheel off the ground. my 97 f-250 with a 6 inch SPRING lift and NO sway bars corners better then my charger. and my 250 has 264,000 mile son it and the bushings are wore out on it.


i was debating changing to a 1.00 or slightly larger torsion bar set up from, nice performance shocks all the way around. 1 1/4 front sway bar, 3/4 rear sway bar, subframe connectors, shocktower brace, and tubular upper control arms. might consider the boxed  lower control arms too

as for steering i am thinking changing out the factory box and pitman arm is all i really need to do.

[Mike DC]

 
As for the feel - sounds like you could use a rebuilt/firmed up PS box.  Check the rag joint/pot coupler too, the stock ones are rubber and prone to decay like everything else. 


And you could probably use some increased caster in the geometry as much as anything.  There are a couple of aftermarket upper A-arms being made for that, with the balljoint moved a bit backward.  Some guys use offset bushings in the stock arms for a small improvement. 

The whole story is that these cars originally got the same front suspension as every other B-body.  The factory originally compromised the steering caster in the stock front end to ease the muscle effort for manual-steering cars.  So it doesn't have as much caster as they would have put on a platform intended for power steering.  And the way we mess with right heights these days, raking the car's stance just aggravates the problem even more.


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As for the body roll  -  same as many of the other issues, it was because of the tires of the era.  Those old bias-plys didn't have the same lateral grip as radials, so the cars couldn't use as much roll resistance as it would be built with nowadays.  That's why it's scraping the door handles on the pavement when you slap modern tires onto it and try to corner fast. 

Some aftermarket sway bars should cure that nicely.  Hotchkiss made a good front & rear swaybar package for these cars (hollow bars, good hardware to attact it, etc) although I think they may only do the 1970-style front swaybar setup now. 



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If the chassis is stock, you might wanna think about improving that too.  It's pretty tough to find anyone who added subframe connectors & rocker boxes to one of these cars and didn't have good things to say about the improvement. 

This is the one of the few areas where I will not defend the factory's decision.  These cars were basically pretty stiff for the era but they still should have come with SCs & torque boxes from the factory.  It's just adding a small amount of extra metal in a non-intrusive area.





XV Motorsports also saw a stiffness gain from adding a brace between the front framerails at the lower rad support.  They sell this brace now. 

I don't know if their extra shock tower bracing would be a decent gain or not.  Their preferred setup also includes aftermarket coilovers mounted on the shock towers, and that's more load than the factory suspension puts there. 

[Nacho-RT74]

anybody ever dealt with these guys?
http://www.firmfeel.com/b.htm

YES DEFINITELLY... I got 1.06" T bars from them GREAT GUYS!!!

[HPP]

Your stock front sway bar is likely under and inch in size and your alignment was probably set to stock specs unless you requested something otherwise.

So, assuming you want a cruiser that occasionally can be thrown into an on ramp corner without hesitation and want to do so for as little $$ as possible, then I'd recommend this;

1.125 front sway bar $150
.75 frame hung or 1.0 axle hung rear sway bar $150 (they are within 103 of rate of each other because of mounting)
Ebrock IAS shocks $300  ( a good high pressure gas shock will work as a substitute)
torque boxes or sub frame connectors$150
alignment with -.5 to-1 degree camber, as much + caster as possible, and 1/16 toe in $50

You'll have less than a grand into it and have a considerably different handling car. If you want to further firm up the ride, than maybe change to .96 t-bars on a small block or 1.0 for a big block and some 160# rear leaf (stock XHD units from espo would cover this). This would add maybe another $600 to the bill.

Next step up or if you like to tinker with ride quality and response  would be to substitute adjustable shocks. Again, another $600 for single adjustable QA1s.

Changing the steering box to a firmfeel unit will get rid of the stock overassist and make it feel more modern, but it doesn't necessarily help it hold a line better than the stock box if everything is in good shape currently.

If you want a turn key kit from a single source that is all dialed in and ready to go, then the XV level one is hard to beat. I think they are getting around $1800 for their level one kit.

You can go deeper and get mroe gains for more money, but again, whats the budget and intention if your going to go further than whats above? Autocross, driving school, track days?

[bordin34]

Also, you probably want wider front and rear tires, and if you like the look less sidewall. I can slide my 225-60r15 front radial T/As before the rears and the fronts are almost riding on the sidewalls when that happens.