Where are we going?

[Neal_J]

Within the past year, the stock market has fallen by half, home prices by 30-50%, Fannie & Freddie are propped up, most banks are zombies, the automakers are all but dead and most everyone who still has a job is worried about losing it.  We know that social security and Medicare are unsustainable and our states and cities are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.  The dominoes yet to fall are credit card debt & commerical real estate, to say nothing of what happens when the US$ is replaced as the international debt currency.  Of course, biggest unknown is where the money will come from to Federal bonds we're printing to pay for all the interventions made to date.

Without this becomming a political discussion, I feel we're staring straight into the Great Depression II.  It feels like the efforts made to date will merely cushion the inevitably hard landing.  Where do you think we're headed and what can be done about it?

[jb666]

Within the past year, the stock market has fallen by half, home prices by 30-50%, Fannie & Freddie are propped up, most banks are zombies, the automakers are all but dead and most everyone who still has a job is worried about losing it.  We know that social security and Medicare are unsustainable and our states and cities are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.  The dominoes yet to fall are credit card debt & commerical real estate, to say nothing of what happens when the US$ is replaced as the international debt currency.  Of course, biggest unknown is where the money will come from to Federal bonds we're printing to pay for all the interventions made to date.

Without this becomming a political discussion, I feel we're staring straight into the Great Depression II.  It feels like the efforts made to date will merely cushion the inevitably hard landing.  Where do you think we're headed and what can be done about it?

I personally feel we're already almost there. Closer than we think. Things can't get much worse, can they?

You say commercial real estate hasn't hit the bottom yet? My industrial park, out of 115 buildings has 74 empty right now with "FOR LEASE" signs on them. Some have "TWO MONTHS FREE!" signs out front. They can't GIVE commercial space away. Who needs space when they can't keep a business afloat?

Without going in "that" direction, all I can say from personal experience is that we're allowing all of our industries to be taken over by China. And when that fails, there's Vietnam. Then India. Then where?? How many 3rd world countries will we go through before we end up back in the US? Will we ever??

You're damn right those of us with jobs are worried.. But those I really fear for are the kids of today. I have two teen-age daughters and pray EVERY DAY that things improve.. What do THEY have to look forward to in this world!??!

[moparguy01]

I really don't feel that we are staring into the second great depression, I think we're already in the early stages of it. Our economy is not doing so good but because of every cost going up, including businesses fixed expenses, there is no way for us to compete with a country willing to provide labor for 2 dollars a day. I hope I'm wrong and things get better, but i'm afraid we have a long way down before we hit bottom and start coming back up.

[jb666]

What I find funny is if you watch GMA in the morning the "analysts" claim the economy has hit bottom and is on the way up.  Go home and watch the 6:00 news and they'll tell you how everything's the lowest it's been since pre-1990 days. Make up your mind.

[Mike DC]

        
               
A couple years ago I thought Peter Schiff was one of the few people who made any sense.  Now his negative viewpoint of our future back then has been justified.  And right now he still says we're not done falling yet. 






$10 trillion.  We haven't been paying our bills for a good 40 years now.  No surprise that it became a problem eventually. 

Nobody took all these recent losses from us.  That money never was real in the first place. 



    

[skip68]

I find it funny that our own government say's to live within our means and yet our government has not been doing it just like most Americans.  Most are living on paper and not real cash.      We are not done falling that's for sure.       

[Neal_J]

It's a red letter day when Skip & I agree, but but he's completely right.  The housing crisis was brought about by folks borrowing when they lacked sufficient funds.  Now, our government is doing the sEXACT same thing.   Damn.

Stepping away from the thin line that separates this thread from politics, perhaps we can turn to question 2:  what can you do?  Not as a country, but as an individual or family, to insulate yourself from the effects of the implosion to the extent you can.  For example:

Pay off debt, esp credit cards
Bail 100% out of the stock market on this temporary bubble
Invest your IRA in CDs

Other ideas?

[Ghoste]

Pay attention to where things are made or where the profits ultimately go.  The Democratic Peoples Republic of Communist China sure isn't going to help feed you.  The Land of the Rising Sun doesn't much care about your troubles either.

[Charger_Fan]

Check out this cartoon from a 1934 Chicago Tribune paper...



...seems eerily familiar, doesn't it? This big governmental wheel keeps going round & round it seems, only this time they seem to be doing a better job of socializing everything. Pretty friggin' scary!

[73chgrSE]

Things can and probably will get much worse. Right now, this isn't comparable to the great depression. No one I know is starving yet. People are still borrowing money and/or eating up their savings but they aren't completely out of money just yet. My advice to every north american is to buy some guns, and ammo, stock up on food and start a garden, maybe get some chickens. If you live in an apartment and buy your food from macdonalds eveyday you are vunerable and will be totally dependant on the government for everything when the sh!t really hits the fan in 2012.

[NHCharger]

I don't think we will see another great depression. However the steps the government is taking to prevent one will drag the recession out much longer. I think it will be mid 2010 before things level off/hit bottom, and then will be many years of stagnant or anemic growth. The guberment will create many social programs to "help" people who are down on their luck and in the process create a whole new class of people who are dependent on the government and will vote for the candidate whom offers the most freebies.

I'm 50 y.o. and I feel that I was lucky enough to live during the best era that America will ever see. I see us heading for a socialized state like several of the European countries where people feel that their entitled to a piece of the pie, no matter how little they work or contribute to society. I just read that some lawmakers are pushing for a VAT tax to fund socialized health care and help pay off our massive debt, especially since the IRS announced that their revenue is down 34% from last year and the budget deficit will be even bigger than projected.

On question 2 I've done as much as I'm going to do. I own my house free and clear, pay my ONE c.c. off monthly. No payment of any kind. I co-own some apartments with my Dad (no mortgage) and my wife and I own 2 rentals (no mortgage).

I saw this recession coming 4 years ago. I took a more secure job three years ago which meant a 20k pay cut, but I'm still working and have my health so I'm not complaining.

[Mike DC]

     

The future looks like a crashing US dollar.  We're griping about the inflation at home, and we don't realize that the $10 trillion of debt isn't even circulating in the system right now.  The implications of that little detail are pretty terrifying.




There are tidbits of news coming out that Dick Cheney has been shifting his major personal assets out of US dollars in the last few years.  So what else do we wanna know?  All politics aside, is there any better example of someone whose actions would indicate the true health of the US's finances?


           

[wordslikebullets]

Someone asked what do we do to fix this...

Yes we can pay off our debt and try to get in good standing pinch and save.

Its not me that I'm so worried about.  2 or three months ago the government gave themselves a raise durring this recession.  THAT is what has to stop.  We need to cut government in half but in order for that to happen washington has to cut it and cut spending.  We the people need to be less dependant on the government.  I say Cut, Cut, Cut, and then look again and Cut some more.

We need to call our congressmen and tell them to stop SPENDING and that means any and ALL!!!...
Call your Represenitive and do the same.

Remember they are to be working for US not the other way around.

Cuts Hurt our Schools, Social Issues, and lots more that I won't go into...

I remember one time when I was little and I was at my grandmothers house for dinner and the potatos were comming.  I remember being really hungry and the mashed potatos looked great.  So when they came to me I started pileing them on and my grandma said to me "I think your eyes are bigger than your stomach..."  and she was right.  as of three months ago I am 35 and weighted 365.  That is years and years of good times and pizzia when I wanted a twinkee I had one.  Then I woke up one day 365lbs and high blood pressure and swelling in my legs...just like our government.  I had to take a good hard look at myself in the mirror and make the decision to change and knew it wasnt going to be easy.  The next day I just went for a 30min walk after work and for food I cut carbs...Oh man that was hard.  for the first two weeks it was hard and I wanted to cheat but I knew if I did not change I would have a heart attack soon and I was not going to let that happen.  I kept on and as time went on I found it easier to work out and the food I was eating was actuly good.  3 months later and 70lbs lighter, faster, stronger I could quit and give up but I know I have to push on to be healthy and to reach a loss of 100lbs or more...

If we could just make the changes it would only hurt for a little while and then I would be stronger to push harder, be smarter and I know we could do it but the people in washington think we just need one more twinkee when that could be the thing that pushes us too far...

Lets Change Washington's mind on spending...

Crazy I know....

[skip68]

     Great job on the diet.      Keep up the good work.

[Todd Wilson]

Things can and probably will get much worse. Right now, this isn't comparable to the great depression. No one I know is starving yet. People are still borrowing money and/or eating up their savings but they aren't completely out of money just yet. My advice to every north american is to buy some guns, and ammo, stock up on food and start a garden, maybe get some chickens. If you live in an apartment and buy your food from macdonalds eveyday you are vunerable and will be totally dependant on the government for everything when the sh!t really hits the fan in 2012.

We go into anything like the depression was we will see anarchy like you cant imagine. The days of the family farm and people surviving on their own are over. Most do not have the means or knowledge to do so. Food comes from the store. In my grandma's days food came from the family farm. Those that still have jobs will be robbed constantly.


Todd

[jb666]

Things can and probably will get much worse. Right now, this isn't comparable to the great depression. No one I know is starving yet. People are still borrowing money and/or eating up their savings but they aren't completely out of money just yet. My advice to every north american is to buy some guns, and ammo, stock up on food and start a garden, maybe get some chickens. If you live in an apartment and buy your food from macdonalds eveyday you are vunerable and will be totally dependant on the government for everything when the sh!t really hits the fan in 2012.

We go into anything like the depression was we will see anarchy like you cant imagine. The days of the family farm and people surviving on their own are over. Most do not have the means or knowledge to do so. Food comes from the store. In my grandma's days food came from the family farm. Those that still have jobs will be robbed constantly.


Todd

That's already happening. Watching the news every day it gets worse and worse. Robberies, shootings, violence all caused by the recession. When someone's backed into a corner and FORCED to provide for their family they will do almost anything. It's a scary world out there right now boys and girls.

I've got a ton of guns and more ammo than I know what to do with --- I just pray to never be a victim of a home invasion caused by some poor guy who just needs to feed his family.

Anyways, back on track. Someone mentioned above that we need to "change Washington's mind on spending". How do you suggest we do that? Obama's giving out $$ like crazy and we're all paying for it... Figuratively and literally.

[WingCharger]

.

[Mike DC]

             

It's still happening because the American public still isn't even scared yet. 


IMHO any time that issues like abortion or gay marriage or environmentalism are still even part of the discussion during an election, we're not worried yet.  Genuinely worried people don't fight over ANYTHING other than feeding themselves.  Fighting for social change/preservation is a luxury that people have when they're still eating regularly. 

[Ghoste]

You should probably add wasting our time on internet forums discussing something as useless as overpriced gas sucking toys.  (which would indicate none of us are actually scared yet either  )

[Guns N Rotors]

Hank Jr summed it up pretty well...

The preacher man says it's the end of time
And the Mississippi River she's a goin' dry
The interest is up and the Stock Markets down
And you only get mugged
If you go down town

I live back in the woods, you see
My woman and the kids, and the dogs and me
I got a shotgun rifle and a 4-wheel drive
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

I can plow a field all day long
I can catch catfish from dusk till dawn
We make our own whiskey and our own smoke too
Ain't too many things these ole boys can't do
We grow good ole tomatoes and homemade wine
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Because you can't starve us out
And you cant makes us run
Cause one-of- 'em old boys raisin ole shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma'am
And if you ain't into that we don't give a damn

We came from the West Virginia coalmines
And the Rocky Mountains and the and the western skies
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

I had a good friend in New York City
He never called me by my name, just hillbilly
My grandpa taught me how to live off the land
And his taught him to be a businessman
He used to send me pictures of the Broadway nights
And I'd send him some homemade wine

But he was killed by a man with a switchblade knife
For 43 dollars my friend lost his life
Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45
Cause a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Cause you can't starve us out and you can't make us run
Cause one-of- 'em old boys raisin ole shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma'am
And if you ain't into that we don't give a damn

We're from North California and south Alabam
And little towns all around this land
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

[PocketThunder]

Things can and probably will get much worse. Right now, this isn't comparable to the great depression. No one I know is starving yet. People are still borrowing money and/or eating up their savings but they aren't completely out of money just yet. My advice to every north american is to buy some guns, and ammo, stock up on food and start a garden, maybe get some chickens. If you live in an apartment and buy your food from macdonalds eveyday you are vunerable and will be totally dependant on the government for everything when the sh!t really hits the fan in 2012.

We go into anything like the depression was we will see anarchy like you cant imagine. The days of the family farm and people surviving on their own are over. Most do not have the means or knowledge to do so. Food comes from the store. In my grandma's days food came from the family farm. Those that still have jobs will be robbed constantly.


Todd

  I spent many a summers with a garden hoe in the family garden.  Man that was hard work and all my friends were playing Nintendo.  I remember butchering 30 chickens and plucking the feathers out so mom and grandma could process the meat.  Canning tomatoes, etc..  All kinds of work that no one does anymore. 

[Charger_Fan]

.

Good point.

[Mike DC]

         

When govts/economies come apart, it's usually not the people who are most self-reliant who survive the best - it's the people with money/power enough to lord over them again. 


Just like the present.  The people who are most able to run the technology aren't the winners.  They're the mid-level employees whose work enriches the winners. 

   

[jb666]

You should probably add wasting our time on internet forums discussing something as useless as overpriced gas sucking toys.  (which would indicate none of us are actually scared yet either  )

Oh please, don't get me started on that subject. Driving around in ANY of my pigs has been pissing off the liberal Hybrid owners for a while now. I'm sorry, but I'll park my car before I sell it for one I have to plug in.

[NHCharger]

but I'll park my car before I sell it for one I have to plug in.