Finally made it to the drags! UPDATED!

[RECHRGD]

Well the Grandkids were in town and a window of opportunity opened, so we took the Charger out to the Friday night drags to see how much better it would run after all the performance upgrades I did last year.  I had run a previous best of 13.5 at 105mph.  The track has recently been taken over by the County and a new timing system has been installed along with other upgrades.  When I had the car dyno'd after the upgrades it put out 325 Rep which was an over 60 hp increase over the power it had when running the previous times, so I thought that getting into the 12's was going to be a no brainer.  Wrong!  Best time last night was only 13.85 at 101.80, a major disappointment.  When talking to other people at the track, the general consensus was that the old owner had been playing with the timing system for years to give people better times than at other tracks.  Everyone that I talked to said that they were running much slower numbers than before.  My raceweight with me in the car is around 4130lbs.  Using one of the horsepower calculators available on the net, it calculates out to 340 rwhp at the 101.80 speed.  That should be about right as this particular dyno has a reputation for being a little low.  The car definitely felt stronger than before, so it should have given out better numbers.  I know I can squeeze some better numbers out of it with practice, but it's a bummer thinking I had a 12 second car only to find out I'm only running a little better than stock after all this.  Bob

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

What were your 60' times Bob?
13 anything is very respectable for a 4200 lb car IMHO

[maxwellwedge]

I agree. A true 12 second car is a beast. Back in the day everyone claimed they had a 12 second car. I whooped a lot of "12 second" cars with my 13 second car. 

[RECHRGD]

60 foot times were unchanged from before, in the 2.2/2.3 range.  Track was pretty slick, so I couldn't come out hard.  On one run I went sideways when I hit 2nd and had to get out of it.  Bob

What were your 60' times Bob?
13 anything is very respectable for a 4200 lb car IMHO

[RECHRGD]

Well, you must be right because the only 12 second mopars were race cars running slicks.  The only street legal cars running better than 13's were a new vette and some nitrosed up Honda.    Bob

I agree. A true 12 second car is a beast. Back in the day everyone claimed they had a 12 second car. I whooped a lot of "12 second" cars with my 13 second car. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

my car has seen 12 second passes on 225/70/15 street tires. the only video i have is a 13.21 at 104 but when you watch the video its pretty obvious why it didnt break 12's. i should have time slips here somewhere. they may be in the glove box still. i will look tomarrow for it. my 60 foot times are bad too. the tranny was toast and i was struggling to keep it together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te8dfDlOITo the 13.21 pass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wENxXDQ6qwU the 12 second pass that got cut off.

what all is done to your motor? what trans/converter are you running? what rear and gears?

[firefighter3931]

60 foot times were unchanged from before, in the 2.2/2.3 range.  Track was pretty slick, so I couldn't come out hard.  On one run I went sideways when I hit 2nd and had to get out of it.  Bob

Bob, you can't make any difinative predictions based on those results....slick track, feathering the throttle and breaking traction in second gear....c'mon brother !  

Your mph is allready good for a high 12 as is....if you can get the car to bite off the line. Traction and 60ft times are everything. You should be 60fting in the 1.80-1.90 range and when that happens the ET's will drop. You need to go back when they prep the track properly and throw some drag radials or slicks on the car to see what it really does. For every tenth you take off the 60 ft time you take 2 tenths off the 1/4 mile ET.



Ron

[maxwellwedge]

my car has seen 12 second passes on 225/70/15 street tires. the only video i have is a 13.21 at 104 but when you watch the video its pretty obvious why it didnt break 12's. i should have time slips here somewhere. they may be in the glove box still. i will look tomarrow for it. my 60 foot times are bad too. the tranny was toast and i was struggling to keep it together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te8dfDlOITo the 13.21 pass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wENxXDQ6qwU the 12 second pass that got cut off.

what all is done to your motor? what trans/converter are you running? what rear and gears?

I ran in the 12's on L60x15 Bias Ply tires......spinning through the traps. Went 11.92 when I bolted on slicks. That car was streetable but not a good daily driver. 

[RECHRGD]

60 foot times were unchanged from before, in the 2.2/2.3 range.  Track was pretty slick, so I couldn't come out hard.  On one run I went sideways when I hit 2nd and had to get out of it.  Bob

Bob, you can't make any difinative predictions based on those results....slick track, feathering the throttle and breaking traction in second gear....c'mon brother !  

Your mph is allready good for a high 12 as is....if you can get the car to bite off the line. Traction and 60ft times are everything. You should be 60fting in the 1.80-1.90 range and when that happens the ET's will drop. You need to go back when they prep the track properly and throw some drag radials or slicks on the car to see what it really does. For every tenth you take off the 60 ft time you take 2 tenths off the 1/4 mile ET.



Ron

Your right Ron!  I just based my assumptions of easy twelves on street tires by my previous times on that track.  When they turned out to be bogus numbers it caught me by surprise.  I still don't want to turn the car into a race car (slicks/4.10's/ect..).  The goal remains the same and the car does seem to really haul.  I did notice that my speedo was sitting at 110mph when going through the traps.  I didn't think it was that far off.   Bob

[c00nhunterjoe]

you could make the next pass with your gps hooked up. that will give you the mile per hour at least.

and slicks dont make the car unstreetable, do you drive it to the track or tow it? just bolt the slicks on for track night.
what are the spec of your car at the present time?

[skip68]

    What gears are you running ?

[RECHRGD]

you could make the next pass with your gps hooked up. that will give you the mile per hour at least.

and slicks dont make the car unstreetable, do you drive it to the track or tow it? just bolt the slicks on for track night.
what are the spec of your car at the present time?

Never thought of checking the mph with the gps!  Good idea.

The cars specs. are as follows:
'68 Charger
'71 440 (forged crank)
Mopar aluminum '452' heads (stage one porting)
Holley 750 DP with ProForm main body (no choke horn)
TRW forged flat tops (approx. 9.4 CR)
E-Brock RPM intake
High volume mechanical Carter fuel pump
Hooker 1 7/8" Competition headers
2 1/2" exhaust with crossover and Ultra Flow mufflers
Mallory Unilite distributor
Comp. Cam Extreme Energy High  Lift cam 275/526/112lsa
Crane Gold roller rockers
New 727 high performance tranny from Cope Racing (w/ deep pan)
Gear Vendors O/D
3.55 8.75 rear
Turbo Action tight street 10" converter.
275/60/15 Street radials (red lines)
Aluminum radiator
Vicious fan (sp?)
Electric pusher fan (for traffic)
Hemi 6 qt. oil pan
High volume oil pump.

I know that the car runs good.  But, wouldn't one think that with all the above performance goodies it would run a little better than my bone stock R/T (except for headers) did back in '68?  I wouldn't think the lower cr would make too much difference.  Bob

[skip68]

That looks like a nice combo Bob.      Gear Venders, oh yah.     Maybe you need more gear like 3.91's and some sticky tires.   

[c00nhunterjoe]

you have lots more goodies then i do. and i mean alot! i only have a few minor "tweek" issues for some more performance. first is the intake. is that a dual plane? if so my reccomendation is scrap it for a nice single plane. you have a pretty big cam, is that 275 at half? if so she is healthy. the cam and intake are not matched together. i think a single plane would really wake the car up.

what is the stall on your converter? that would make a big difference too. your cam needs more rpm to get into the power band. 2500 would be my minimum reccomendation with a 3000 being optimun for you without going overboard. that will give a nice launch but not be crazy for daily drivers. i personally have a 10 inch 3000 stall in my car and drove it all over the place at long distance trips.

your heads flow very well out of the box and you have them ported. your 750 may not be enough for the motor and also the fuel pump. does the car pull hard in top end? or does it flatten out at all? either way i would have a fuel pressure gauge on the car just to see what it does during a full 3 gear pass.

i love the headers, the 2.5 inch is a little small for max potential on your engine but perfect for street driving.

as far as the rear you shoudl be able to cram more gear in it with that od...lol throw some 4.10's or 4.30's at that beast! if not the 3.55's are a nice medium.


your car should be a low 12 if not high 11 second peice. you have almost identical set up to my friends 67 belvedere. his car will walk all over mine the last time we were out and mine is a mid 12 second car with a good tranny behind it. ( the stock unit from a 77 imperial didnt hold up very long)

i dont mean to sound negative if i am i am sorry, thats not my intentions. your engine combo is not perfect but it shoudl produce alot of power. before you do anything else to the car i would say run it again the way it is on slicks. then start tuning. you would be amazed at what spark plug gap, indexing, timing, and carb jets will do for a car.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

60 foot times were unchanged from before, in the 2.2/2.3 range.  Track was pretty slick, so I couldn't come out hard.  On one run I went sideways when I hit 2nd and had to get out of it.  Bob

Bob, you can't make any difinative predictions based on those results....slick track, feathering the throttle and breaking traction in second gear....c'mon brother !  

Your mph is allready good for a high 12 as is....if you can get the car to bite off the line. Traction and 60ft times are everything. You should be 60fting in the 1.80-1.90 range and when that happens the ET's will drop. You need to go back when they prep the track properly and throw some drag radials or slicks on the car to see what it really does. For every tenth you take off the 60 ft time you take 2 tenths off the 1/4 mile ET.



Ron

The last time I had mine to the track (2006) my best run was a 13.55 @ 103....I had a 2.095 60' time.   Like you, running on radials & feathering it off the line.  Im confident wit a little more seat time & "feathering" practice I would get deeper into the 13's myself......

But hey, it starts & idles fine, power brakes work nicely & can roast the tires from stop light to stop light......13 second 1/4....who needs it?  

[RECHRGD]

you have lots more goodies then i do. and i mean alot! i only have a few minor "tweek" issues for some more performance. first is the intake. is that a dual plane? if so my reccomendation is scrap it for a nice single plane. you have a pretty big cam, is that 275 at half? if so she is healthy. the cam and intake are not matched together. i think a single plane would really wake the car up.
The 275 is advertised duration.  At half it's 230 I believe.  So, not that big of a cam.  The intake is a dual plane.
what is the stall on your converter? that would make a big difference too. your cam needs more rpm to get into the power band. 2500 would be my minimum reccomendation with a 3000 being optimun for you without going overboard. that will give a nice launch but not be crazy for daily drivers. i personally have a 10 inch 3000 stall in my car and drove it all over the place at long distance trips.
It stalls around 3000 and still works fine with the g/v on the highway.
your heads flow very well out of the box and you have them ported. your 750 may not be enough for the motor and also the fuel pump. does the car pull hard in top end? or does it flatten out at all? either way i would have a fuel pressure gauge on the car just to see what it does during a full 3 gear pass.

i love the headers, the 2.5 inch is a little small for max potential on your engine but perfect for street driving.

as far as the rear you shoudl be able to cram more gear in it with that od...lol throw some 4.10's or 4.30's at that beast! if not the 3.55's are a nice medium.
Yea, probably 3.91 would be a good compromise.

your car should be a low 12 if not high 11 second peice. you have almost identical set up to my friends 67 belvedere. his car will walk all over mine the last time we were out and mine is a mid 12 second car with a good tranny behind it. ( the stock unit from a 77 imperial didnt hold up very long)
Your basing that assumption on a much larger cam than I have.
i dont mean to sound negative if i am i am sorry, thats not my intentions. your engine combo is not perfect but it shoudl produce alot of power. before you do anything else to the car i would say run it again the way it is on slicks. then start tuning. you would be amazed at what spark plug gap, indexing, timing, and carb jets will do for a car.
Jetting and timing are pretty much dialed in, but I know there's more in there.   Thanks,  Bob

[c00nhunterjoe]

the cam is still fairly healthy. 230 at .050 is nice. 275 full is still respectable. my buddies is only a little bit bigger but you have other things done that he doesnt. overall your engines are very close. if jetting and timing are set then try running the car on slicks. with that 3k converter you should have 1.7-1.8 60 foot times with no problems at all if not even a little better. that alone would put you into the 12's and then you said you were spinning on shifts?  try a sticky tire before you get too mad at the car. your motor should have lots of power to get very close to what you want, if not more.

[Runner]

bob, i went up last weekend and the best i could muster was an 11.75,i think in decent weather i will get it down to mid-low 11.60s i have not touched the car sence last fall when i put down a 11.46 pass. in simular weather there ive ran mid 11.40s. you want a good number go to the coast now, ive been 11.40s in the heat at woodburn. in fact i was just telling my wife it was time to send the heads off for some work to get it close to the 11.50 bar rule again ( no bar will ever be in my car) and she said nope, it will be way to fast when we go to the coast  lol. also i was told the prep on fridays is horibble, but i can tell you it was friggin awesome on saturday and sunday. they did over an hour of prep both bays before the racing started and that was 4 hours beofre a promod car went down the track. i dead hooked every pass except one ( i believe i carried some water to the line in my wheel wells)   the show the promods put on was the BEST drag race ive ever seen. 24 top end promod cars at one track. ive heard that it was the best promod field that youll see on the west coast this year.  the new surface is the smoothest track ive ever been down, i was blown away with what i seen up there. i love coming out of the hot loop now.   

[c00nhunterjoe]

man, its been a busy weekend, i forgot to look for my timeslips. i cant recall my 60 foot times  but it would be interesting to compare our total time slip numbers.

[RECHRGD]

After bumping up the compression a point over the winter, I went to the track again yesterday.  It's under new management (again) so things got goofed up and I was only able to make two runs.  The 1st run I just eased out and then matted the peddle (2.23 60') and netted a 13.7 @ 103.  Not a lot better but considering it was the 1st "blow the carbon out" run, I was happy.  On the second run, I dropped the tire pressure down to 27lbs. and brought the engine up on the converter to 3000rpm.  Even though I was not floored the tires spun.  When I thought the spinning was done I floored it but again started spinning.  At this point I was kinda pissed, so I just stayed on it until the car wanted to turn left at about 70mph.  So with a rapid 60' time of 2.45 I et'd at 15.2 @ 101.12.  I'm surprised that the 2nd run's mph was as high as it was considering all the spinning and having to get completely out of it in second gear.  All in all, I think the car likes the added compression and with practice should run low 13's with street tires and easy 12's with some DOT type slicks.  Bob

[c00nhunterjoe]

i think you will be happy if you can get a set of slicks bolted on, the 103 mph pass is getting much better, if you figure i went 13.2 at 104 on street tires babying off the line as well. you are losing ALOT of time off the line in your car, get some sticky's mounted and see how she runs!

[firefighter3931]

Bob, if you go to the track again trydropping the rear tire pressure to 20 psi and see how it hooks. 

I'd luv to see the #'s with a set of Drag Radials or slicks....with good traction you should be 60fting in the 1.80 range. 



Ron

[BSB67]

Bob, If you're having fun, like going to the track, and want to say that you've got a 12 second street car (without changing tires), I recommend you just keep practicing and tuning.  With practice, you can get your car down to a 2.0 sec 60ft, maybe even 1.90s.  These 60 ft times are pretty common and achievable with a true street tires in a 4000 lb B body. That'll put you at about 13.30. Tune your engine for the rest.  You should be able to get 105 or 106 mph ( maybe more) with what you already have.  The better 60' from practice and the extra power from tuning should get you to the 12.90s.

[RECHRGD]

Bob, If you're having fun, like going to the track, and want to say that you've got a 12 second street car (without changing tires), I recommend you just keep practicing and tuning.  With practice, you can get your car down to a 2.0 sec 60ft, maybe even 1.90s.  These 60 ft times are pretty common and achievable with a true street tires in a 4000 lb B body. That'll put you at about 13.30. Tune your engine for the rest.  You should be able to get 105 or 106 mph ( maybe more) with what you already have.  The better 60' from practice and the extra power from tuning should get you to the 12.90s.

Your probably right BSB67.  Yesterday was our track's only test and tune DAY of the season and I was hoping to get a lot of passes in, but no luck.  They do have Friday night street legal racing as an alternative that I could try.  But, I would have to stay up past my bedtime.  Bob

[BSB67]

Bob, If you're having fun, like going to the track, and want to say that you've got a 12 second street car (without changing tires), I recommend you just keep practicing and tuning.  With practice, you can get your car down to a 2.0 sec 60ft, maybe even 1.90s.  These 60 ft times are pretty common and achievable with a true street tires in a 4000 lb B body. That'll put you at about 13.30. Tune your engine for the rest.  You should be able to get 105 or 106 mph ( maybe more) with what you already have.  The better 60' from practice and the extra power from tuning should get you to the 12.90s.

Your probably right BSB67.  Yesterday was our track's only test and tune DAY of the season and I was hoping to get a lot of passes in, but no luck.  They do have Friday night street legal racing as an alternative that I could try.  But, I would have to stay up past my bedtime.  Bob

That Friday night sounds like fun.  They do the T&T here on Thursday nights - too late for me to.  I get home about 12:30am, then get up for work a few hours later.

[c00nhunterjoe]

i guess i'm lucky. my track is 15 minutes from the house and we have t$t wednsday nights, friday nights and all day saturday every week. sad thing is that i never get to go anymore........ no time.  and i havnt forgot about finding my old time slips. theyare here somewhere. i am curious how our times compare