Today's Gas with Ethanol

[jasonjb75]

For years I've ran my Charger which has a 383HP on regular pump gas, typically Sunoco Ultra 93.  It always ran fine without octain booster or lead additives.

At the end of last year when I put the car away for the year I topped off the fuel tank with fresh gas and added Stabil like I always do every year.  I've had it out a couple times this year and the engine doesn't seem to be up to par plus I can hear the valves ping under acceleration.  Nothing else has changed other than I remember late last year the pumps here listed the addition of Ethanol to the gas.  Today when I got gas to make sure it was fresh gas in the tank I noticed a sticker that warned people to check with the manufacture on the use of Ethanol enriched gas on cars built in 1985 and older.

Has anyone else noticed anything like this on their Mopars?  What effect would Ethanol enriched gas have on a 1969 383 engine?

Is it worth trying to drain the tank a putting some type of racing fuel into the tank to see if it corrects the condition?     What is the best way to drain a full tank?

[mjwebb]

I dunno', but rather than draining the tank I think I'd dump some drying additivie and some lead substitute and run it hard, but I'm not an authoritative expert...if nothing's changed then that might be enough to perk things up

[FLG]

I think all gas stations have been running 10% ethanol blend for some time now. It actually has a higher octane rating then gas but it produces less power then gasoline.

Does it still ping with the new gas??

[jasonjb75]

I think all gas stations have been running 10% ethanol blend for some time now. It actually has a higher octane rating then gas but it produces less power then gasoline.

Does it still ping with the new gas??

I ran it for a while with the new gas in it and it still was the same.  I was just trying to narrow it down to things I knew changed but I don't have much.

[flyinlow]

Alcohol has a high octane performance number. They mix it with lower octane gasoline to boost the octane, and make the corn growers  and Al  Gore  rich. Nothing against corn growers, I have a small garden myself.

Alcohol also has less energy per galion, needs richer jetting and has poor drivabilaty with a cold engine.  While most newer engines will tolerate the mix ,some carborated engine act poorly with it , without retuning.

Would not rule out a carb with fuel varnish in the jets.

The easiest way to get rid of the gas is drain it thru the 4 holes in the bottom of the carb.

[Ghoste]

The easiest way to get rid of the gas is drain it thru the 4 holes in the bottom of the carb.

  At least sometimes it's the easiest.  (no small coincidence that it's usually the most fun way as well)

[jasonjb75]

I would have to agree, nothing beats the feel behind the wheel and flying through the gears!  I just want to make sure that I am not causing any damage while I am doing it!

[Chatt69chgr]

There are several Shell stations around Chattanooga that have gas with no ethanol in it.  The cost is not too much more than at stations that sell the adulterated mix.  My car I drive for business gets about 15% less MPG than it did when the gas didn't have any ethanol mixed in it. 

[green69rt]

Lot's of things going on with gas.

The addition of 10% ethanol (that's the max and not always the content) will change several things.
 1) richness of the carb.  As has been said ethanol has about half the energy of regular gas so a 10 percent ethanol change will decrease the overall power by about 5%.  For those driving newer cars with computer controls I would bet that you will see a 5% DECREASE in milage.  This is a direct result of ethanol.
 2) there is more oxygen in the fuel so the mixture will get leaner, for a carberated (sp?) engine this means that you need to make the mixture richer.  If you were running on the ragged edge then you'll be into pinging and other issues.
 3) because of the increase in oxygen you will see more water in the exhaust.  Think about that.
 4) Ethanol likes to suck up water.  This means in the gas tank, gas lines, carb.  You can't keep it out.  Chemists call the ethanol/water mix an aziatrope (I think).  What this means is that once the ethanol attaches itself to water you can's get it out by ordinary methods.

Bottom line is rejet your carb, start thinking about rust in your fuel system and get hoses, etc that are compatible with ethanol.

[Purple440]

I always fill up at a local gas station that specifically states NO ETHANOL on the pump.  You should have one in town I would guess.

[Ghoste]

If you have "no ethanol" pumps in your town consider yourself fortunate because more and more politicians are purchasing green votes by mandating the crap into the gas.

[aifilaw]

Yeah, the closest non-10% ethanol gas station is about well over 100 miles away in Oklahoma.

I was going to make a response but green69rt summed it up, ethanol effectively soaks up water, it has a higher octane, but requires more fuel to make the power in a nutshell. All the comments are good, jet your carb jetting for your mixture to fix it again if you can't get away from the 10% ethanol.
I wouldn't worry about the water in the tank et cetera more than any other gas unless you leave less than a full tank in there for extended periods of time without use. Under typical use any water it accumulates should get dumped into your engine through the carb along with the gas, and a little bit won't hurt anything, in fact some superchargers have special water atomizers to purposely spray water into the intake.

Bottom line is 10% ethanol over the previous (I think 3%) is a bad idea unless that mixture was literally 10% cheaper than previous blend of gasoline and they used a superior place to obtain it (wood, grain, sugarcane).

For the racers, the E85 stuff is actually great, I believe its around 130 octane, so as long as you don't care about fuel consumption, but rather power, as long as you bump your dynamic compression ratio up to 12.5-15:1 to make use of it its cheap race gas.
the reason "flex fuel" cars do so horribly on it is because they are using 9:1 static CR so they can run standard 3%, and just advance the @$#%!@# out of the timing to run E85 blend, but they are losing even more of the benefits.

[Purple440]

If you have "no ethanol" pumps in your town consider yourself fortunate because more and more politicians are purchasing green votes by mandating the crap into the gas.

Yeah I know.  Fortunately I think the government is waking up to the fact that corn based Ethanol is not the future.  Hopefully they'll focus on other forms of fuel for the new cars, and continue to allow good quality gasoline for guys like us.

I'm from MN and Ethanol is HUGE up here...and I still have some stations with no Ethanol.  Luckily one is about 5 miles away and also carries 110 race gas 

- Doug

[mopar-or-no-car]

If you have "no ethanol" pumps in your town consider yourself fortunate because more and more politicians are purchasing green votes by mandating the crap into the gas.

Yeah I know.  Fortunately I think the government is waking up to the fact that corn based Ethanol is not the future.  Hopefully they'll focus on other forms of fuel for the new cars, and continue to allow good quality gasoline for guys like us.

I'm from MN and Ethanol is HUGE up here...and I still have some stations with no Ethanol.  Luckily one is about 5 miles away and also carries 110 race gas 

- Doug

You mean like those awful hybrids everyone is coming out with! or biodiesel also seems to be the wave of the future!! It seems like everyone is trying to leave us poor muscle car people in the past where they think we belong! (But not if I have anything to do about it!!     )
You know the government if offering $1000.00 a car to get the "older" cars off the road!! ha ha ha!! yea like I am gonna sell my 71 chally for $1000 bucks!! they can keep dreaming!!  I think crapping up the gas is just another way to get rid of us!!!

[green69rt]

Lot's of things going on with gas.

The addition of 10% ethanol (that's the max and not always the content) will change several things.
 1) richness of the carb.  As has been said ethanol has about half the energy of regular gas so a 10 percent ethanol change will decrease the overall power by about 5%.  For those driving newer cars with computer controls I would bet that you will see a 5% DECREASE in milage.  This is a direct result of ethanol.
 2) there is more oxygen in the fuel so the mixture will get leaner, for a carberated (sp?) engine this means that you need to make the mixture richer.  If you were running on the ragged edge then you'll be into pinging and other issues.
 3) because of the increase in oxygen you will see more water in the exhaust.  Think about that.
 4) Ethanol likes to suck up water.  This means in the gas tank, gas lines, carb.  You can't keep it out.  Chemists call the ethanol/water mix an aziatrope (I think).  What this means is that once the ethanol attaches itself to water you can's get it out by ordinary methods.

Bottom line is rejet your carb, start thinking about rust in your fuel system and get hoses, etc that are compatible with ethanol.

Forgot one thing.  The old hoses, gaskets and plastic parts will NOT!!!! stand up to ethanol.  They slowly melt away.  All the new stuff is made with ethanol compatible material (I think) so it might be worthwhile checking anything you have in contact with your gas system.