Radiator cowl and trunk lip numbers

[jmanscharger]

I did a search before I asked this, no luck, how do you decode the radiator cowl and trunk lip numbers and what should they match besides each other?
My 68 has  B8X050985

[Charger4404spd]

If 68's are like 69's, it should match the last didgits of the VIN#.

[Troy]

68 and earlier cars are not like 69 and later.

The first number is the assembly plant (like the VIN), the second is the year (8 = 68), the third is the model (X = Charger), and the next six are the Shipping Order Number. This is where they are different than 69 and later because those cars will have the an eight digit sequence which matches the VIN. In 68 and earlier the SON on the body should match the numbers on the bottom right of the fender tag.

Troy

[jmanscharger]

Thanks Troy!
I had noticed on my first 68 that the fender tag order number was not the same as the vin but on my first 69 it was.
SO the only information that I cannot figure out at this point with no build sheet or fender tag on my current 68 is my three digit production date. No way even with vin and cowl numbers?

[jmanscharger]

I did find another 68 RT with a shipping order number less than 100 away from mine so I am assuming it was built a little before that car's 321 March 21.

[28Texaco]

Well, I know that on the big blocks (383, 440 and 426) that you can come pretty close to the production date by looking at the flat machined-off pad at the top front of the block.  It'll have the date of when the block was made and the production date from the fender tag will be several days after that.  For example, my block pad says 418 (Apr 18) and my fender tag says 424 (Apr 24).

[8WHEELER]

The rad support number should match the trunk lip and also match the sequential number
on the bottom right of your fender tag, as said on a 68 nothing match's the Vin numbers.

Dan

[Charger4404spd]

68 and earlier cars are not like 69 and later.

The first number is the assembly plant (like the VIN), the second is the year (8 = 68), the third is the model (X = Charger), and the next six are the Shipping Order Number. This is where they are different than 69 and later because those cars will have the an eight digit sequence which matches the VIN. In 68 and earlier the SON on the body should match the numbers on the bottom right of the fender tag.

Troy

Yeah I was thinking they were different.

[jmanscharger]

Ok I have my shipping order number and my vin differences sorted out with the 68. Thanks!
Let me refine my question. I have no fender tag or build sheet or numbers matching engine. I do have info on a very similar car that had a shipping order number that I thought was close to mine. Is what I need to narrow the production date someone willing to share information on a Charger build before 321 (1968)?
My car from a decoder
B = Dodge Main, Hamtramck, MI, USA
271766th Vehicle
Shipping order number B8X050985

similar car built 321
B = Dodge Main, Hamtramck, MI, USA
227416th Vehicle
Shipping order number B8X051964

[Troy]

This would be a good question for the registry guys.

Troy

[MM1R/T]

Here's the way it was explained to me:   There is no correlation between the SON and the scheduled production date (SPD). The blank shipping order forms had preprinted numbers on them when given out to the dealers. When a particular form was used to order a car, that number was what got stamped on the car. It was a more or less random thing.

There is a fairly close correlation (with many exceptions) between the VIN sequence and the SPD. The exceptions occur because the SPD was the scheduled and not the actual production date and cars got held up waiting on parts from suppliers and probably a thousand other reasons. Therefore, you will never be able to tell for sure what the original tag had for an SPD. (This statement is correct for the cars we are discussing here. Others, like AAR Cuda's And T/A Challengers are a different matter).

I have been putting together a list of VIN/SPD's for cars built at the Hamtramck plant in the model year 1968. I have done this by checking out cars in person, but mostly by surfing eBay auctions where the VIN is listed and there is a pic of the fender tag.

When I get back home tonight, I can probably give you a number that is within a couple of days of what was originally on the tag. For example:   I don't have the list with me right now, but I would bet that the VIN number of the car belonging to the blue tag in Dan's post has a sequence number in the 180,000 to 181,000 range.

If you are going to have a repro tag done for the car, A.G. Backeast is a good source. If I can't help you with a plausible SPD, send him your VIN number with your order and he will be able to come up with one that is very close.

[jmanscharger]

"THE CAR WAS PRODUCED BETWEEN 5/2 AND 5/9  PROBABLY 5/3 UNLESS THAT WAS A WEEK END DAY.
A.G.BACKEAST"
May 3 was a Friday so I think I have my date, although it is later than I thought. Sound in line with your numbers MM1?

[MM1R/T]

Actually, no.

Here's what I have that's close to your VIN:

XS29L8B262394   117
XS29L8B263475   118
LP27B8B265207   122
XP29H8B269330   125
XP29G8B274335   131
BH29P8B278249   206

Admittedly, a small sample, but based on these numbers I would say that Hamtramck was building about 1000 cars per day at this point in the year. I believe that production increased to about 1500 per day later in the year.

All of the above is based SOLELY on my records of VIN numbers and SPD's. I could be wrong.

If I were doing the tag, I would put the SPD at about 128, or whatever weekday was closest to it. That may be considerably off of what the original tag had on it (due to circumstances mentioned in my original post), but no one could ever say conclusively that it was incorrect.

[C500]

Hey MM1, I am in the same situation, no build sheet or fender tag. My VIN is XP29G8B420356. The stamp on the trunk lip is B8XA59739. What does the A stand for, and what do you estimate the production date to be? (The radiator support stamping is not readable).

Cheers, Kiwi

[jmanscharger]

Wait, sorry I ran my vin through a decoder and gave you the wrong number. The vin decoder switches the 3 to 2. Vin is XS29L8B371767.   

[MM1R/T]

JMAN & KIWI:

I will get back to you guys sunday night . Once again I am separated from my list. I have fewer VIN/SPD records for that late in the year, but who knows, I might have something close.

KIWI: I have no idea what the A in your SON represents. I would guess probably not much. The B, 8, &X were discussed earlier in the thread, and since  the other SON's I've seen have a digit in that space, I would say that it probably was used as a sequence number (probably what was printed on the SO form).

I could be wrong, and if you find out that it has some significance, please let us all know. I'm not an authority, just a student like most others on this board.

[C500]

The A in the SON represents a Canada ordered car. If anyone can tell me how many cars were Canadian ordered cars there were, that would be cool. Will the fender tag I'm having made have a space for this code somewhere to go into? (No existing tag or buildsheet)

[MM1R/T]

JMAN:  The numbers I have near your VIN are: 

XP29F8B368715   501
XS29L8B370240   502
XP29G8B374597   506

By May, I believe that Hamtramck was building about 1500 cars per day. You VIN is almost exactly 1500 higher than the one with an SPD of 502. I would go with 503 on your tag.

KIWI:  The closest numbers I have to yours are:

LS23P8B404179   604
LS23P8B430746   625

Based on those two numbers and assuming that Hamtramck was still building approximately 1500 cars per day, I'd say probably 615 to 618 for your tag. I'd just ask the guy from A.G. Backeast. He's bound to have a better idea than I do, and he's the one to have do your tag.

I'm curious as to where you found out that tha "A" in your SON number signifies a Canadian spec car.

I have a pic of a Canadian spec '68 Charger tag on a disc somewhere. I'll look around for it and let you know what it says.

[C500]

Thanks MM1  ,
I got the 'A' info from the guys at A.G. Backeast. I had en email from him yesterday. He also gave me production dates of 610 for 414325, and 620 for 427112. My number is close to the middle, so I am guessing production date to be the 15th June 68....which happens to be a Saturday. I would have to guess the real date to be Friday 14th or Mon 17th assuming no cars were rolled out on weekends.

I hope you find the pic of the Canadian spec tag, please email it to me zippy2@value.net.nz
Cheers, Kiwi

[Magnumcharger]

Just a bump to put this near the top of the pile for awhile!

[69CoronetRT]

From my experience with SPDs at the 69 STL plant, not every day was a scheduled production day.
It is dangerous to 'split the difference' between two known vins and SPDs and assume your car falls in the middle. You could be using a date that will not be found on other tags. This may raise a red flag somewhere down the line if you put it into a registry.

IIRC and without doing some digging, weekend dates were used for SPDs on occasion.

If you MUST have a tag made based on speculation, do as much home work as possible before paying for more mistakes on your tag.

I would not rely on AG Backeast as an authority on tags or SPDs. (AMHIK)

[MM1R/T]

69CoronetRT:

I was unaware that some days were not scheduled production days. I have no idea whether the same is true for the Hamtramck plant. I'm still trying to figure a lot of this stuff out myself.

Do you know what caused some days to not be scheduled as production days? I can think of Statutory Holidays being one possible example. I could see not scheduling any production for the 4th of July or Christmas day. Any other reasons?

I haven't checked the Hamtramck SPD's I've collected to see if any are weekend days. I think I will, now.

I agree that reverse engineering an SPD for a tag is speculation. So much of restoring these cars seems to be that way: look at other cars built near yours and assume that yours was like that, too.

Chrysler didn't seem to share too much in the way of how or why they did things.

[mikepmcs]

right click save.  Thanks again fellas, i get smarter by the day.

v/r
Mike

[Magnumcharger]

Check Wikipedia for "1968"..it gives a calendar for that year.

[69CoronetRT]

69CoronetRT:

I was unaware that some days were not scheduled production days. I have no idea whether the same is true for the Hamtramck plant. I'm still trying to figure a lot of this stuff out myself.

Do you know what caused some days to not be scheduled as production days? I can think of Statutory Holidays being one possible example. I could see not scheduling any production for the 4th of July or Christmas day. Any other reasons?

I haven't checked the Hamtramck SPD's I've collected to see if any are weekend days. I think I will, now.

I agree that reverse engineering an SPD for a tag is speculation. So much of restoring these cars seems to be that way: look at other cars built near yours and assume that yours was like that, too.

Chrysler didn't seem to share too much in the way of how or why they did things.

I just took a quick look at what I have...

Here's an example of days skipped at the STL plant for model year 1969:
W*23H9G220743   2/14
R*27*9G221047   2/24

There are 10 days missing in a little over 300 VINS. For some reason the entire week of the 17th-21st is apparently not represented. Spring Break? I'll ask Chris if he sees the same thing at Hamtramck.

Here is a car with an SPD of 1/05 (69) which was a Sunday. I also have a string of 3/29 cars which was a Saturday. While not the rule, you do find cars with weekend SPDs.

Also looking at the calendar, most of the statutory and traditional holidays do not seem to be been scheduled days (Good Friday, Memorial Day, 4th of July)

Chrysler never intended us to be worrying about this stuff 35-40 years later. The car was expected to be sold and last 7-8 years and that's it. The items of interest to us today were just mass production methods and administration then. They were certainly nothing to be 'collected' or studied.

[MM1R/T]

Here's an example of days skipped at the STL plant for model year 1969:
W*23H9G220743   2/14
R*27*9G221047   2/24

There are 10 days missing in a little over 300 VINS. For some reason the entire week of the 17th-21st is apparently not represented.

Wow, that's a huge gap. My collection of VIN/SPD combo's is much smaller than yours, but I haven't seen anything like that in '68 at Hamtramck.

It's kind of interesting that the gap comes near the middle of the model year. Plant maintenance? We may never know.

[C500]

MM1, did you ever find that picture of the Canadian tag you have? 

kiwi

[MM1R/T]

Kiwi:  Check your PM's.

[Magnumcharger]

So, my Charger has a SO# of: see pic
I'm trying to get a better idea of what my Charger is about.