Going back to Intrepid in nascar

[70charginglizard]

I heard the announcers today during the race idicate that some of the dodge drivers are going back to there intrepid cars next year due to the problems with the charger front nose design. Anyone else hear about this?

Why doesn't this suprise me.

 

[ChargerBill]

I love it! I can't wait to hear the explanations as to how the drivers are wrong about this....let the excuses apologetics fly.

[TheGhost]

How is this legal?  I thought they could only use cars 2 years old or younger?  The Intrepid went out in 03, which should disqualify it from NASCAR.  Right?

[ramminon]

The two year old body style rule was true during the Winston cup days but now will Nextel Cup anything goes

[89MOPAR]

3 dodges in the top 10 but it's a bad race vehicle ??
Quit "haterizing"...

[Duey]

Does anybody seriously think of any NASCAR racer as a Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Taurus, Charger, Intrepid, etc....?

Honestly, about the late 80's was the last time that you could reasonably call a car by its model name and be close to telling the truth.  Today's cars are so rigidly templated by NASCAR that very slight alterations and the engine are about the only things that separate one from the next...IMHO...

Cheers,
Duey

[TruckDriver]

I watched Wind Tunnel on Speed last night too. I also heard it there. I guess teams have been asking Dodge for a new nose and they have not been getting any answers on it. So this is why they are doing it. If any of you follow CASCAR, the Canadian version of NASCAR, you know they have a completely different nose. I love how CASCAR cars actually look mostly stock appering, even the Charger looks reasonably stock compared to NASCARS. They even had CASCARS VP on last night, and Dave asked him about the rumors if NASCAR was going to buy them out. The VP pretty much indicated no, but he did say he was working with NASCAR.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Nascar is testing the "car of the future" which is some sort of one size fits all car except for the nose.       I'm sure it'll play out to a one size fits all motor (ie: chebbie) soon.

[69_500]

I believe the comment was that the teams are talking about taking the Intrepid to Homestead next week to use. That is because this season would be the last year that they could run an Intrepid in NASCAR.

Also its not Dodge that isn't getting them a new front end, its Nascar dragging its feet on giving the okay to a new front end.

[andy74]

How is this legal?   I thought they could only use cars 2 years old or younger?   The Intrepid went out in 03, which should disqualify it from NASCAR.   Right?

the intrepid was built into 04 as a 04 model,so they can technically use it this year,if i was newman or rusty i would,but jeremy shouldnt be bothered,he will still finish 9th,a head of kurt the pussy busch

[Shakey]

The two year old body style rule was true during the Winston cup days but now will Nextel Cup anything goes

Can they bring back the Daytona from '69?

[Shakey]

Here are a couple of pics of the CASCAR's used this year.

I threw in the picture of Peter Gibbons Monte Carlo as I was his catch can man in 2001 and his spotter in 2001.

[Chris G.]

Also its not Dodge that isn't getting them a new front end, its Nascar dragging its feet on giving the okay to a new front end.

I agree. Most people only see the headline. They don't actually read what is happening.

[70charginglizard]

3 dodges in the top 10 but it's a bad race vehicle ??
Quit "haterizing"...

I don't believe I was haterizing. I was just stating what I heard from that Nascar race yesterday. The Nascar guys obviously see a problem with the front end of the car or they wouldn't be doing what there considering. That's what Nascar is for.... isn't it? To show obvious inadiqacies in a vehicles aerodynamic shape and design so they can make it better in production. Right? At least thats the way things use to work in the past.

Sounds to me like your afraid of something being provin here? sympathizing perhaps???

[69_500]

I just wish they would race a car that actually looks like the street versions. If you can make a street version of the Charger and it has an aerodynamic equivalent of 0.27 say, and the street version of the Monte Carlo is 0.35 say. Then I would say that each manufactuer needs to do better. But when all 3 brands are racing the same body, i mean what difference is there they all 3 use the same templates any more, then what is the point of having 3 makes in NASCAR? Other than their engines, there is no difference. Everyone has to use the same gear ratio, same bodies, everything is the same. Let one group build something, and if it is that much better than the others, they need to come up with something new. That is my philosophy. If the chevy is that far ahead of the dodges and fords, then they need to step up and design something better. But NASCAR shouldn't in turn say, no you can't use that because it gives you an advantage. If they get something better then it would be say Chevies turn to come up with something new. Let them design and use whatever they can come up with, since your not really making them race a stock car anymore anyways.

[ChargerRT440]

The whole deal with the Charger nose (I believe) is that it crumples really easily or something like that. I've seen alot of collisions with those cars and the nose just seems to be a weakpoint. Also the fact that they hold garbage on the nose really well. the manufacturer won't admit their's a problems and Nascar won't admit that it'd be alot more exciting if they went back to running almost stock cars

[TheGhost]

The two year old body style rule was true during the Winston cup days but now will Nextel Cup anything goes

So, you are saying someone can race with a 97 Grand Prix now, for exampe?

[TheGhost]

3 dodges in the top 10 but it's a bad race vehicle ??
Quit "haterizing"...

I don't believe I was haterizing. I was just stating what I heard from that Nascar race yesterday. The Nascar guys obviously see a problem with the front end of the car or they wouldn't be doing what there considering. That's what Nascar is for.... isn't it? To show obvious inadiqacies in a vehicles aerodynamic shape and design so they can make it better in production. Right? At least thats the way things use to work in the past.

Well, that might be true, if NASCAR actually used stock bodies....

[Ponch ®]

the intrepid was built into 04 as a 04 model,so they can technically use it this year...

Correctomundo. In fact, this weekend some of the "back marker" and "go or go home" teams that run Dodges were running (or attempting to run) last year's intrepid body, since those teams usually buy old cars from the bigger teams.

Nascar is testing the "car of the future" which is some sort of one size fits all car except for the nose.           I'm sure it'll play out to a one size fits all motor (ie: chebbie) soon.

it is kind of a "one size fits all", but apparently the noses and A-pillars will be more like the production cars. I'm all for the COT, since its supposed to make boxier, and boxier = Craftsman Trucks-type of racing

COT Monte Carlo:  


http://jayski.com/schemes/misc/cot-chevy-atlanta.jpg

http://jayski.com/schemes/misc/cot-petty-atlanta.jpg

This is NASCAR's own version of the COT-Charger:



PS - that CASCAR Charger is pretty cool.

[89MOPAR]

 I don't think the purpose of Nascar aerodynamic tweaks is too help the production vehicle.  They approved a "different" nose than the production vehicle to help get downforce at the front of the car. Which the street car doesn't need.
You are  right I jumped the gun, I was haterizing against D-C getting slammed as usual on the boards, instead of people being happy they are involved deeply in motorsports and aftermarket development. 

[RT DAVE]

If it's true, it's just the dodge teams trying to force nascar to allow a different nose on the charger.  If they use the intrepid, my best guess is dodge will put more pressue on Nascar to change the nose on the Charger.   Just my opinion.

[1970440RT]

     The Dodge drivers and crew chiefs are complaining they can't find a good balance for the car.  Minute changes to adjust on the car are causing major changes in the way it drives.  This car was aerodynamically designed and submitted on last years aero package.  When nascar shortened the spoiler in the offseason,  it threw the car off.  This car was designed specifically to dominate on the "cookie cutter" tracks which makes up most of the schedule.  After the aero change, we all can see the how well they did on the mile and a half tracks, horrendous.  Dodge did not plan for how the rules change affected the car.  They are submitting a new nose to correct these issues.

The whole deal with the Charger nose (I believe) is that it crumples really easily or something like that. I've seen alot of collisions with those cars and the nose just seems to be a weakpoint. Also the fact that they hold garbage on the nose really well. the manufacturer won't admit their's a problems and Nascar won't admit that it'd be alot more exciting if they went back to running almost stock cars

The structure underneath the skin of the vehicle is the same for all manufacturers.

I just wish they would race a car that actually looks like the street versions. If you can make a street version of the Charger and it has an aerodynamic equivalent of 0.27 say, and the street version of the Monte Carlo is 0.35 say. Then I would say that each manufactuer needs to do better. But when all 3 brands are racing the same body, i mean what difference is there they all 3 use the same templates any more, then what is the point of having 3 makes in NASCAR? Other than their engines, there is no difference. Everyone has to use the same gear ratio, same bodies, everything is the same. Let one group build something, and if it is that much better than the others, they need to come up with something new. That is my philosophy. If the chevy is that far ahead of the dodges and fords, then they need to step up and design something better. But NASCAR shouldn't in turn say, no you can't use that because it gives you an advantage. If they get something better then it would be say Chevies turn to come up with something new. Let them design and use whatever they can come up with, since your not really making them race a stock car anymore anyways.

Interesting note: The hood, roof and trunk are supposed to match the production vehicles dimensions.  Not so with the car of tomorrow.

     At least Ted Musgrave has a chance to win the Truck championship.  I can wear my Mopar hat proudly at work!     

[chrisII]

How is this legal?   I thought they could only use cars 2 years old or younger?   The Intrepid went out in 03, which should disqualify it from NASCAR.   Right?

the intrepid was built into 04 as a 04 model,so they can technically use it this year,if i was newman or rusty i would,but jeremy shouldnt be bothered,he will still finish 9th,a head of kurt the pussy busch

did kurt get a one race gig?? is he even legaly allowed to do so being that he is only "suspended" and still contracted to roush?? i wasnt expecting to see him race

     now the question comes up, WHY DIDNT THEY DO THIS EARLYER IN THE SEASON???  dugh didnt the teams realise they could still run a car that was good?

[69_500]

That is what I was talking about how a team designs a car to fit into the rules. Then because NASCAR looks at how it will perform and that it might dominate, they lower the spoiler to change the aero package. Hence pretty much 

The dodge teams came up with a great aero designed car to do well on the 1.5 mile tracks, then NASCAR cuts down the spoilers on the cars. Hence pretty much ruining all their design.

Oh well maybe next year they will come up with something better again. 3 Dodge made the Chase, but it appears that they may be 7-8-9 in the end. Which would be sad.

[1970440RT]

     Even if Dodge does come up with something better, NA$CAR will make sure that they are not dominant.  That will always be a Chevy.  It is a shame but it is true.

[69_500]

Definately the truth. Why do you think that the HEMI and Ford's Boss 429 and 427 SOHC engines were outlawed in  the early 70's?

[Orange_Crush]

       Even if Dodge does come up with something better, NA$CAR will make sure that they are not dominant.   That will always be a Chevy.   It is a shame but it is true.

Or maybe Toyota...there may not be a Chevy a few years down the road...Or, who knows, it may be the Chevrolet division of Toyota Motors...Or it may be the Chevrolet division of DaimlerChrysler.

[Ponch ®]

       now the question comes up, WHY DIDNT THEY DO THIS EARLYER IN THE SEASON???   dugh didnt the teams realise they could still run a car that was good?

It probably would have looked pretty bad for Dodge to be promoting the new Charger, naming the Darlington race the "Dodge Charger 500", having most of the drivers praise the new design...only to to go back to last year's model. True, the NASCAR model looks nothing like the production model, but it would still be a marketing nightmare.

BTW- I do wonder if the teams that run the Intrepid body will still put Charger decals on it?

[69_500]

I don't know if any of them are actually going to run the Intrepid or not. I mean really it didn't run that well the last year either.

[chrisII]

       now the question comes up, WHY DIDNT THEY DO THIS EARLYER IN THE SEASON???   dugh didnt the teams realise they could still run a car that was good?

It probably would have looked pretty bad for Dodge to be promoting the new Charger, naming the Darlington race the "Dodge Charger 500", having most of the drivers praise the new design...only to to go back to last year's model. True, the NASCAR model looks nothing like the production model, but it would still be a marketing nightmare.

uuumm..is there anything about the new charger that isnt a marketing nightmare??   a friend of mine who cares verry little about cars was talking about one, but said he really wishes they had given it a better name  so he will probly keep his impala a while yet lol..ooh yeah an he prefers to buy chrysler

[1970440RT]

Definitely the truth. Why do you think that the HEMI and Ford's Boss 429 and 427 SOHC engines were outlawed in the early 70's?

     I really believe that ford and Chrysler got under the France family's skin with all the ferocious competition in the late sixties and early seventies.  After Chrysler bowed out due to financial reasons, the Chevys took over and never looked back.  This is kind of ironic, considering General Motors did not factory back the racers in the sixties and seventies.  Chrysler and Ford dumped gobs of money into it only to be slapped with the energy crisis.

Or maybe Toyota...there may not be a Chevy a few years down the road...Or, who knows, it may be the Chevrolet division of Toyota Motors...Or it may be the Chevrolet division of DaimlerChrysler.

    An interesting note:  Industry insiders claim that Toyota is spending more money on their truck series teams than the big three are spending on their Busch teams.  All Toyota Craftsman truck series truck bodies are built at Toyota racing development facilities by Toyota, not the race teams as the other manufacturers.  The Toyota truck motors have consistently dynoed 25 to 35 hp more than Dodge, Chevy or Ford.  Much of this is Na$car giving them more to work with to establish themselves.  Toyota essentially has a sanctioned advantage over the other manufacturers courtesy of Na$car.  So much for parity.  Expect the same when Toyota enters Cup in 07. 

Also, Dodge is pulling most of their factory support from the Truck series next year and putting it towards Cup competition.

[Brock Samson]

i wasn't aware toyota made pushrod v-8s with carbs.. 

[69_500]

Can someone tell me who won the manufactuer's championship in 1968, 1969, 1970, and 1971?

[hemihead]

I believe Toyota is tied closely with GM , is it not? Expect Ford to bring Mazda into the game soon.Then Mopar will follow with Mitsubshi.

[dodgeboy67]

 i think that since they dont make a 2 door model it,, the charger should be banned from nascar....i thought that to be a stock car , they had to make  a certain # of them to be elgible?

have any of you guys seen a 2 door production model????i havent

lookin at the first nascar pic....it appears they modified the front end of the car??? or is that the way they all are?
anyway, it seems to look better that way imo

[69_500]

I guess I'll answer my own trivia question.

1968 Manufactuer Champ was Ford
1969 Manufactuer Champ was Ford
1970 Manufactuer Champ was Plymouth
1971 Champ was Chevrolet.

What seemed odd to me about 1971 was that Petty won the Championship. However in 1971 only 3 of the 48 races that year were won by Chevrolet. Now Plymouth won 22 races, Dodge Won 8 races, Ford won 3 races (1 of which was in a Mustang), Mercury won 11 races. Now how does Chevrolet get the manufactuer's title in 1971?

[Lightning]

i think that since they dont make a 2 door model it,, the charger should be banned from nascar....i thought that to be a stock car , they had to make   a certain # of them to be elgible?

have any of you guys seen a 2 door production model????i havent

lookin at the first nascar pic....it appears they modified the front end of the car??? or is that the way they all are?
anyway, it seems to look better that way imo

that's the way they all are now.

they haven't raced a true 2-dr RWD car in 6 years, the last one was the Thunderbird.

BTW, all of the Cup and Truck teams get their bodies from Evernham Motorsports, or at least that's what the current Mopar Perf Parts book says.

EDIT: I also like the look of the CASCAR Charger, and the Car Of Tomarrow version is the closest thing to a production nose I've seen all year!

[Lowprofile]

i think that since they dont make a 2 door model it,, the charger should be banned from nascar....i thought that to be a stock car , they had to make   a certain # of them to be elgible?

have any of you guys seen a 2 door production model????i havent

lookin at the first nascar pic....it appears they modified the front end of the car??? or is that the way they all are?
anyway, it seems to look better that way imo

After the T-Bird, the Ford Boys were using the Taurus Body [a four door] for their NASCAR Platform.

[Ponch ®]

After the T-Bird, the Ford Boys were using the Taurus Body [a four door] for their NASCAR Platform.

yeah, the Taurus is the car that screwed everything up. Up until then, the production cars might have been V6 or fwd, but the race versions at least kept a lot of the cosmetic characteristics (like the T-Bird and Lumina/95-99 Monte Carlos). When Ford switched to the Taurus, they basically had the advantage of designining the race car the way they wanted it, since the Taurus was a 4-door car. After that, it was either one manufacturer or the other complaining that one had more advantange, so NASCAR kept changing the nose here, the rear there, and so on, until they ended up with the spec cars they have now.

[dodgeboy67]

well they should call it non stock racing anyway,.....these cars arent even close to being stock....lol

[TruckDriver]

well they should call it non stock racing anyway,.....these cars arent even close to being stock....lol

That's why I watch more only for the crashes now. NASCAR wants everything IROC. Take the driver out of the racing factor long as the cars are evenly matched. The generation of driver now couldnt handle the cars of the 80s or older with no power steering. Other then the older guys that are still around, and the sprint car guys, the rest only depend on a good handling car and pit crew.

[Lowprofile]

The more NASCAR sticks their nose into the building of these cars, the worse it gets for the teams, the manufacturers & the fans.   They need to step back, set some basic rules, and let the best teams/cars win.

[Ponch ®]

The more NASCAR sticks their nose into the building of these cars, the worse it gets for the teams, the manufacturers & the fans.   They need to step back, set some basic rules, and let the best teams/cars win.

there has to be a balance though.
That was done in the 60-70-80's and those were the days when the  2nd place car would finish a lap down, third and fourth 2 laps down, and everyone else 5+ laps down. That was way before my time, but I've watched enough of those snoozefests on ESPN Classic. Not very exciting.

[hemihead]

SnoozeFest? I guess you are to young to have seen the 1976 Daytona 500. I guess the excitement now is which Chevy team will win.

[69_500]

I say that if a team can make their car run that much better than the rest of the field then they deserve to win a race by a 1 lap margin. Even if that means that half of the field is 3-5 laps down. Then they need to go back home and do some homework. To me its boring to watch Daytona and talladega today where all the field is bunched up. They just go around and around. It has nothing to do with how good your car is, but how many of your buddies will help you draft to the front.

[1970440RT]

    Just read on jayski.com that Kahne will be running an Intrepid on Sunday.  Mayfield is running the Charger.  I guess it is more than a rumor.

[1970440RT]

Newman will also be running an Intrepid this Sunday.  What an embarrassment for Daimler.

[Ponch ®]

SnoozeFest? I guess you are to young to have seen the 1976 Daytona 500. I guess the excitement now is which Chevy team will win.

is that the one where Pearson and Petty wrecked off the last turn? Yeah..that was exciting. But how do you wreck, spin, and still manage to win the race?

[1970440RT]

BTW, all of the Cup and Truck teams get their bodies from Evernham Motorsports, or at least that's what the current Mopar Perf Parts book says.

That is not true L-06, Bobby Hamilton Racing, Orleans, and Ultra Motorsports all build their own race trucks.  In the Cup series, all major teams build their own racecars.  Info, research, engineering, and special parts may be distributed by Evernham which is the factory flagship team.  Much of that sheetmetal is bent by the shops from flat stock and hung on the cars to conform to the templates.

[hemihead]

Ponch, Petty just kept bumping the starter to make it move.Easy to do being a manual tranny.