My rare 68 4 speed Charger! Here is my fender tag pic.

[kikgas01]

Well, it`s a 1 owner,68,000 mile 68 Charger,383 magnum with a 2bbl carb (YES a magnum 383 2bbl carb 330 horse) all numbers matching,special order (or sold car if you will)....His idiot son in law started tearing it apart but THANKFULLY they have every nut, bolt and part bagged and tagged. I will post more pics when it gets home. Any ides what it`s worth? It needs a lot of metal, but the unibody is solid meaning frame rails.
More pics to come. Here is the original order sheet from 1968!!!

[Ghoste]

I don't know what it would be worth and I can't wait to see more pics of the car but I will argue about the 2 barrel Magnum.  Part of the Magnum that made it so was the four barrel.  The "G" in the vin does indicate it was a 383 car, but when it was a 383 two barrel it was a 290 hp engine.
The other paperwork is interesting though as well because I'm wondering if that is the dealership where my Road Runner came from.  It was sold new in Waterloo, Iowa but I don't remember who the dealer was.  Was Simpson Motors just a Dodge Chrysler dealer or did they move Plymouth as well?

[kikgas01]

They sold plymouth as well. Galen said that the 330 horse 383 was a 2bbl "G" code and the 335 horse is a 4bbl "H" code. Look at the manifolds.HP Right on the block it says 383-hp. This is original right down to the paint. The 383 335 horse is a "H" code, and the 290 horse(2bbl non hp) and 330 horse which is a 383  "special order hp with a 2 bbl IS a g code but IS a magnum. They needed a code if you will for a special ordered 383 hp with a 2bbl carb which got the code G.
The 330 horse had everything BUT the 4bbl. It`s a 383 hp. However the 290 horse is a non HP due to not having the same cam,exhaust and so on. I have some paper work from Galen. That is why it`s a "unique" car. I`ve heard many stories of how they would build a car the way you wanted it and this is one of "them cars".

[bull]

That's a 2bbl VIN, one of 74 made, just like mine. Looks like no vinyl top which is pretty rare too, just like mine. What's the build date? Is it 5/31? I see it was titled in June and it makes sense that it would be mid-year 68 with a Hurst shifter. Good find! This is about the 5th or 6th one I've ever seen.

[Ghoste]

I can't claim to be a guru but everything I have (including Galens White Books) shows the 330 and 335 horse 383's in 68 as having four barrel carbs and the two barrel as being a 290 or 270 horse.

[kikgas01]

Yup, it`s a 2bbl vin BUT the engins says HP and has the HP manifolds. I like the options it has like the locking gas cap. power disc brakes,manual steering 4-speed,355 sure grip, tach Music master radio and the buddy seat or fold down armrest lol.

[skip68]

That is a cool find.     Looking at those prices for extras is cool too.  More pics please.   

[ChgrSteve67]

Congratulations on your score!

How soon before you pick up where the son in law left off?

Or do you plan on just flipping it?

[bull]

Yup, it`s a 2bbl vin BUT the engins says HP and has the HP manifolds.

Then it's not a numbers-matching engine or it got HP heads and manifolds put on it at some point. XP29G8B means it's a non-hp 383 with non-hp heads and a 2bbl rated at 290 horse. The 'H' code can mean either 330 or 335 horse 4bbl but 'G' is for 290 horse 2bbl. The factory would not have made any exceptions to go against the VIN. The dealer could have but it makes no sense that someone would have ordered it as a non-HP car just to have the dealership change it unless it was ordered wrong and he didn't want to hassle with a return. If it is an HP engine it should have a partial VIN stamping on the top of the bellhousing flange that would match part of the VIN but the 'G' code '68s didn't have that. Another oddity is that the 383/2bbl/4spd Chargers got one HP manifold and one log manifold believe it or not.

[Dans 68]

Yup, it`s a 2bbl vin BUT the engins says HP and has the HP manifolds.

Then it's not a numbers-matching engine or it got HP heads and manifolds put on it at some point. XP29G8B means it's a non-hp 383 with non-hp heads and a 2bbl rated at 290 horse. The 'H' code can mean either 330 or 335 horse 4bbl but 'G' is for 290 horse 2bbl. The factory would not have made any exceptions to go against the VIN. The dealer could have but it makes no sense that someone would have ordered it as a non-HP car just to have the dealership change it unless it was ordered wrong and he didn't want to hassle with a return. If it is an HP engine it should have a partial VIN stamping on the top of the bellhousing flange that would match part of the VIN but the 'G' code '68s didn't have that. Another oddity is that the 383/2bbl/4spd Chargers got one HP manifold and one log manifold believe it or not.

I was waiting for Curtis to weigh in on this, and I have to agree with him. Being such a late build date it would certainly have the partial vin stamp on the engine block. Let us know what it says...if it does match then we have a conundrum, but one that will be fun looking into.    If you have not seen this thread http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,34882.0.html it gives some insight to the 2-bbl/4-bbl differences.

Dan

[ryan053]

Thats a cool car whatever the case is with the engine. What are your plans for the car?

[tan top]

      good stuff    looking forward to seeing more pictures    .............

[1969chargerrtse]

Wow, how about some info on how you came about it?  That tach was expensive for the times.

[kikgas01]

Ok, I will have it home in a week or so. I knew about this car when I was 10 or so. I seen it at Mc Donalds and talked to the guy. I knew back then how rare it was being a one owner 4 speed car.He told me where he lived and wouldn`t sell it. My friend seen it come back home on a trailer in pieces. (20 some years later) I stopped and ended up buying it. Just making a long story short here. I will look for all of the numbers I can find. I wish someone was close to look at it as well. I will gurantee the car hasn`t been messed with. He wanted to use it to pull a trailer and to use, but wanted a family car so ordered the fold down armrest. Dan you might abd probably are 100% correct as I didn`t know about the manifold deal. If someone is ever in Iowa,stop and look... :2thumbs:At this time seeing the metal work it will need, I am unsure what I will do with it. It needs the typical "Charger metal" I will look at the pass side manifold and look at the top pad under the dist for now. When it gets home I can really look it over.

[Ghoste]

I should make it clear first that I want to congratulate you on getting the car because I've mainly just debated the two barrel Magnum engine.  I am thrilled for you on the car and I am serious about that.
But... further to the other thing, is there any way you could post this info from Galen?  I have searched the order guides, the parts catalogs, brochures, the web and find absolutely no other information anywhere to indiacte that such a thing ever existed.  It doesn't even show up in Galens own books.  I don't argue this to beat you over the head, I'm just trying to educate myself or dispel a myth so don't take it personal.  Cool?

[kikgas01]

[Ghoste]

The fender tag decodes as a 290 horse.  On the bottom row that pair of numbers after the "XP29" works out to code it.

[kikgas01]

I have him on the phone. Here is what he said exactly. The paper work he gave me is from his OWN research, the info from his IDIOT son in law isn`t right. (The son in law is the one who tore the car apart). Now here is the probably incorrect??? paper work for the chargers?
I am by no means no expert but the manifolds are a bit wierd for a 290 horse correct? Again the engine is un touched as far as any changes or "mods" done to it. I know it says a g code 290 horse engine but the manifolds are wierd.

[ryan053]

Now im going to need two hands to count us four speed guys

[kikgas01]

This car is giving me a headache.

[skip68]

    Who cares.     Looks like a cooooool car to me.  Did you get it for a good price ?   

[Ghoste]

No it isn't, giving you a headache, it's all good.  You have a four speed 68 Charger, how great is that?  The "G" being used for two engines in the VIN is the confusing part and I think what we'd find is the two barrel "G" is the 290 horse one that you could get in the Charger.  The four barrel "G" is the 330 horse one as shown.  The "H" is the 335 horse and this is the one you would get in a Super Bee or Road Runner.

[kikgas01]

Wonder whats up with the manifolds? Could the dealer have installed the 2bbl. The guy ordered it that way and they charged him for him 60 some bucks for it! The 383 with the 2bbl carb should have been standard shouldn`t it? Should be no charge for it. My last 68 charger was a h code so I know u could get thee 335 horse in chargers to. the numbers will be neat to look at as well as pulling the pan.

[Ghoste]

Except that the fender tag is still coded for the two barrel.  It is also possible that the manifolds are just what they put on on the line.  Perhaps the engine was rightly or wrongly meant to be an "HP" as it is stamped and the line workers put on the hp manifolds and then for whatever reason it also got the two barrel and was the engine dropped in the car, who knows?  Is it dual exhaust?

[kikgas01]

Except that the fender tag is still coded for the two barrel.  It is also possible that the manifolds are just what they put on on the line.  Perhaps the engine was rightly or wrongly meant to be an "HP" as it is stamped and the line workers put on the hp manifolds and then for whatever reason it also got the two barrel and was the engine dropped in the car, who knows?  Is it dual exhaust?

It has duals on it  right now but  like a dumbass I didn`t think to look to see if it had the 2 factory hanger spots under the back seat area. Thanks for asking and that would DEFINATLEY help to know more. That will be the first thing I look at. Thanks again for helping me find out what I have Ghoste.

[Ghoste]

It's helping us all believe me.  I'm obviously taking the "prove it" stance right now but Mopar did a lot of strange things and if it proves out one way or the other it just helps us all to know that much more about these cars.

[68charger383]

I can't claim to be a guru but everything I have (including Galens White Books) shows the 330 and 335 horse 383's in 68 as having four barrel carbs and the two barrel as being a 290 or 270 horse.

Nice score: 

69coronetRT will probably know the answer:

I've seen previous discussions on the difference between the 330 HP and 335 HP cars somewhere on here. I think only the Superbees and RR came with the 335 HP motors and the "H" chargers only had the 330 HP cars. The 383 G is a 2 bbl 290 HP motor. Looks like someone may have added parts. 

[Ghoste]

"G" can be a two barrel or a four barrel in the Charger.  "H" is the 335 and yes, just for Super Bee or Road Runner.  At least that is how I understand it.

[bull]

I've never heard of two different 'G' codes but I have heard of two different 'H' codes. Perhaps Galen messed up because every pice of literature I've seen to date indicates there was only one engine specified for the '68 'G' code Charger and that's the 290 horse 383.

[kikgas01]

I thought (originally) the difference from a 335 horse to a 330 horse was airconditioning. Love learning new things I will tell ya that. This car only has 68,000 one owner miles and I will say it again. He didn`t change ANYTHING to make it faster or neater or anything. In fact he ordered it with "road wheels" but when he tood delivery of the car it had steel wheels because the road wheels were recalled for some reason and anyway they had to refund 92 dollars to him. Anyone know anything about these wheels?

[bull]

Do you have the build sheet?

[bull]

Wonder whats up with the manifolds? Could the dealer have installed the 2bbl. The guy ordered it that way and they charged him for him 60 some bucks for it! The 383 with the 2bbl carb should have been standard shouldn`t it? Should be no charge for it. My last 68 charger was a h code so I know u could get thee 335 horse in chargers to. the numbers will be neat to look at as well as pulling the pan.

That's another odd thing -- charging $70 for a two barrel carb. I don't get it. Are you sure the seller isn't trying to snow you?

[kikgas01]

I asked him when I bought it. He said he didn`t recall seeing it under the back seat but it might be there. The seats are out and when I pick it up, I will know more. It says right on the paper work from when it was new it was suppose to have the wheels on it. Like The old man said that owned it since new, they had a recall on them.

[kikgas01]

Wonder whats up with the manifolds? Could the dealer have installed the 2bbl. The guy ordered it that way and they charged him for him 60 some bucks for it! The 383 with the 2bbl carb should have been standard shouldn`t it? Should be no charge for it. My last 68 charger was a h code so I know u could get thee 335 horse in chargers to. the numbers will be neat to look at as well as pulling the pan.

That's another odd thing -- charging $70 for a two barrel carb. I don't get it. Are you sure the seller isn't trying to snow you?

Please look at the first page in this thread on the sales order. Its marked on there AND has a charge for it. Its on the original paper work

[Ghoste]

It wouldn't be the Gurus first mistake Bull thats for sure.  Thats part of why I'm such a skeptic where anything connected to him is concerned.  Not because of his knowledge, which is far far greater than mine will ever be, but more because of the "Galen sayeth thus so let no man put asunder" aspect.
I can say that the 68 parts catalog only shows ONE two barrel 383 and ONE four barrel 383 and it is a September 1967 copy so it predates Road Runner information I believe.

[Ghoste]

The two barrel was an optional engine so the 70 dollars is for the whole thing, not just the carb.  The origianl owner of your car would have been paying it too Bull.

[bull]

Wonder whats up with the manifolds? Could the dealer have installed the 2bbl. The guy ordered it that way and they charged him for him 60 some bucks for it! The 383 with the 2bbl carb should have been standard shouldn`t it? Should be no charge for it. My last 68 charger was a h code so I know u could get thee 335 horse in chargers to. the numbers will be neat to look at as well as pulling the pan.

That's another odd thing -- charging $70 for a two barrel carb. I don't get it. Are you sure the seller isn't trying to snow you?

Please look at the first page in this thread on the sales order. Its marked on there AND has a charge for it. Its on the original paper work

I was just looking at the Iowa certificate of title which says 1969 under the VIN. You'd think he would have titled it sooner than 1969.

[Ghoste]

I thought it said 68?

[bull]

The two barrel was an optional engine so the 70 dollars is for the whole thing, not just the carb.  The origianl owner of your car would have been paying it too Bull.

I meant in relation to any HP designation. But yea, it still seems odd that you have to pay for a downgrade but that's the way it goes when you order something specific as such.

[kikgas01]

It wouldn't be the Gurus first mistake Bull thats for sure.  Thats part of why I'm such a skeptic where anything connected to him is concerned.  Not because of his knowledge, which is far far greater than mine will ever be, but more because of the "Galen sayeth thus so let no man put asunder" aspect.
I can say that the 68 parts catalog only shows ONE two barrel 383 and ONE four barrel 383 and it is a September 1967 copy so it predates Road Runner information I believe.

I don`t understand. I am not trying to pull anything guys.

[bull]

I thought it said 68?

Maybe. The guy might have bought it new but it may have sat around a while getting who-knows-what done to it by the dealership.

[Ghoste]

I am not in any way implying that you are, only trying to know and verify.  This research is part of the fun about these old cars.  It carcheology.

[bull]

It wouldn't be the Gurus first mistake Bull thats for sure.  Thats part of why I'm such a skeptic where anything connected to him is concerned.  Not because of his knowledge, which is far far greater than mine will ever be, but more because of the "Galen sayeth thus so let no man put asunder" aspect.
I can say that the 68 parts catalog only shows ONE two barrel 383 and ONE four barrel 383 and it is a September 1967 copy so it predates Road Runner information I believe.

I don`t understand. I am not trying to pull anything guys.

We're not talking about you, we're talking about a possible oversight by Galen and/or the previous owner.

[kikgas01]

ohhhh sorry. If anyone wants to look at it they are more than welcome. I just appreciate all of the help figuring out what the car actually is. Either way it`s a pretty cool car but needs a lot to restore it. It`s definatly worth doing though. The guy has no reason to lie to me on anything about the car, he wasn`t trying to sell it. I just stumbled across it. Thats all. That is why he has no reason to pull my leg. Heck I have the paper work from when he ordered it new.

[Ghoste]

Here are the 383 engine option availabilities for the Charger and the standard 383 for the Super Bee as indicated in the 1968 dealer data book.

[Ghoste]

I don't think anyone is thinking the guy you bought it from is trying anything either.  There are a lot of Mopar mysteries out there waiting to be solved and when it comes to the two barrel 383 Chargers, especially 1968 four speed ones, I don't think anyone has researched them as much as Bull. 
What are your plans for the restoration, bone stock as delivered or are you going to take some personal liberties?

[kikgas01]

If I keep it, it would be totally original with no changes even as much as I like electronic ignition. It`s to rare to mess up I think. I know I am not gonna keep it with the "I`m gonna fix her up someday and never do it intentions" I will sell it first so it gets the resteration it deserves. I am a bit unclear about the 69 on the title so here are 2 more photos of it.I kind of leaped before I looked when I bought it.

[Ghoste]

I think thats just a typing error, everything else on that sheet indicates the car and the year of registration both as being 1968.

[bull]

FWIW I don't think it's even possible to get 330 horse out of a 383 w/a 2bbl.

[mopar_nut_440_6]

FWIW I don't think it's even possible to get 330 horse out of a 383 w/a 2bbl.

Maybe with a big Holley 2 Bbl. The oval track guys make big horsepower with them.

[kikgas01]

A good big set of headers, dual piont dist, good gas and leave everything else alone, absolutley it would. These were under rated for horsepower anyway.

[69*F5*SE]

Congrats on your definite score.     Can't wait to see some good pics of it.

[bull]

A good big set of headers, dual piont dist, good gas and leave everything else alone, absolutley it would. These were under rated for horsepower anyway.

Yea, but we're talking factory options here and the factory didn't install headers and dual point dist. in any '68 Chargers that I'm aware of, let alone 2bbl 383s. All I'm saying is two things: 1) I've never seen any documentation (prior to yours from Galen) stating that there were two different engines in 'G' code Chargers with 40 hp difference nor have I seen any saying there was ever anything but a 2bbl/non-HP 383 in a 'G' code 68 Charger when the VIN starts with XP29G8B and 2) it makes no sense to install an HP 383 in a 'G' code Charger and then set a 2bbl on top of it.

BTW, did you look at the top of the engine side bellhousing flange yet to see if there's a partial VIN? Also, what is stamped on the distributor pad?

[FJMG]

   Very cool car!, It would sure be interesting to know what "road wheels" the car was coded for?

[kikgas01]

I should have it home in a week. It`s going to take a rollback,  truck, our minivan and Bravada with the seats down and hopefully there will be enough room for all of the parts. It`s only 10 miles away.

[1969chargerrtse]

Great find all the same.

[Davtona]

Small world, I was in the old Simpson Motors building this last Saturday. I believe this is the building now used by Waterloo Boats. Or at least I think that's the building Simpson Motors had. I remember my dads 1st "new" car was a 1964 Dodge 440 wagon bought new from Simpson Motors. I vaguely remember being there I suppose that was when he picked it up. I assume you're referring to the South Main McDonald's in Cedar Falls. Did the car spend its whole life on 12th street in Cedar Falls? I have never heard of the car or do I ever remember seeing it. And I've lived in this area my whole life and spent alot of time hotrodding around Cedar Falls back in the day.  Amazing whats still tucked away. Good Find   

[Ghoste]

Really?  Remember a 68 Road Runner, red, belonged to a hockey player?  Couldn't be too many red 68 Road Runners back then huh? 

[Davtona]

Really?  Remember a 68 Road Runner, red, belonged to a hockey player?  Couldn't be too many red 68 Road Runners back then huh? 

No sorry I don't. At least it doesn't ring a bell. Had a buddy that had a blue 69 runner. Does that count. Alot of cars around here back in middle 70's. Unfortunately they all just sorta went away one way or another. Well they almost all did I guess. You don't have a name of the hockey player do you? Not sure if that would help or not.

[Tilar]

Well, It looks like a great find. Looks like the original owner traded in a 62 Chrysler 300.

[Ghoste]

I do but I doubt he was living there at all, I think he was just passing through.  He was/is from around here in southern Canada and I know he bought the car when he first got paid to play hockey.  Any minor league professional or NHL farm teams close to there?
Anyway, I was being silly about the whole remember a red Road Runner thing (which I'm sure you knew) but I doknow where the car is and the bill of asle and everything is still in it so I should get a copy of it and post it.  Who knows it may even turn out to be the same salesman that sold this Charger.

[kikgas01]

Small world, I was in the old Simpson Motors building this last Saturday. I believe this is the building now used by Waterloo Boats. Or at least I think that's the building Simpson Motors had. I remember my dads 1st "new" car was a 1964 Dodge 440 wagon bought new from Simpson Motors. I vaguely remember being there I suppose that was when he picked it up. I assume you're referring to the South Main McDonald's in Cedar Falls. Did the car spend its whole life on 12th street in Cedar Falls? I have never heard of the car or do I ever remember seeing it. And I've lived in this area my whole life and spent alot of time hotrodding around Cedar Falls back in the day.  Amazing whats still tucked away. Good Find  

YUP! That is the building!!!! The car sits in a garage right off Orchard drive BY SOUTH MAIN!!!!! How wierd is that!!!! I am gonna send you a pm! When I first seen the car when I was 10 or so, I seen it at the 1st street Mc Donalds. Like shortly after that building was built. I am a quarter mile from Cedar Falls raceway. One of the few quarter mile drag strips left!

[69charger2002]

so $8500 gets her huh? hope it goes to a good home.