Need Advise - Boiling Brake / Clutch Fluid in Daytona

[NYCMille]

Hey Guys -

I've been having an issue with the Daytona and I need some advise. I seem to be boiling the brake and clutch fluid due to lack of airflow under the hood, has anyone else come across this? The car runs fine and never overheats - temp stays a 170-190 even while sitting in traffic, but the brake master and clutch are getting CRAZY hot. We put a heat gun on the headers and it read 500-550 degrees which is really not that bad, I just have to figure out how to get the heat out from under that hood.

I have thought about building a heat shield around the master and clutch, but that will not do anything about getting the heat out from underneath the hood. I also DO NOT want to cut the hood and put vents in. So, first off, have any of you guys had this issue? Did they have it back in the day and if so what did they do about it? Can some kind of cooling system be worked out under there?

I need good honest opinions and options on this one guys.

Thanks - Mike

[WingCharger]

Daytona's were known for this back in the '70s. That is the reason you see so many with expanded Grilles or funky hood scoops.

Dude, I have to say it again, your Daytona is king of all MoPars.

[BigBlockSam]

i know this is a radical idea but how bout running a master like they use in hotrods .that are down on the frame and not in the engine compartment . 

[NYCMille]

That is radical - maybe too much so for me... there has to be a way to move that air from under the hood - it's gotta' flow in, but more importantly flow out...

[WingCharger]

Maybe somehow enlarge the holes at the base of the nose?
Or a hood with a scoop?

[Troy]

Maybe somehow enlarge the holes at the base of the nose?
Or a hood with a scoop?

Did you read the first post?

Troy

[69bronzeT5]

Well, my question is...what were the point of the fender scoops? Were they there for cooling?

[WingCharger]

Maybe somehow enlarge the holes at the base of the nose?
Or a hood with a scoop?

Did you read the first post?

Troy

Yes. I didn't mean for him to cut up the one on the car.
I meant a "race hood" with a scoop like some drag racers run at the track, and then just run their normal flat hood on the street.

[69bronzeT5]

Maybe a 6 pack hood like you wanted to put on Mr Angry? 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,16220.0.html

[NYCMille]

I want to keep the stock lines of the car - so, has anyone run any sort of ducting under the nose cone into the engine bay? and if so, is there to get the air out - maybe a hidden exit port of some kind?

[69bronzeT5]

How did they keep the NASCAR Daytona's cool? Mike, I'm sure somebody has done that....I'll have to do some searching.

[WingCharger]

How did they keep the NASCAR Daytona's cool? Mike, I'm sure somebody has done that....I'll have to do some searching.

They ran a grate over on of the headlight door openings or something like that I think.

[NYCMille]

Yea... I was thinking that, problem is this car is going to get A LOT miles put on it, so I need both headlights working...

[69bronzeT5]

Well...I'm stumped

[hotrod98]

Mike, Are your headers coated inside and out with ceramic? I was amazed at how much that helped with my headers on my dragster. We could touch them just a short time after pulling back to the trailer after a run. Just a thought.  Any thoughts about making a lined heat shield to protect the mc's.?  Something simple and unassuming.
Didn't I see someone that was making a kit to place the mc's inside the car with a remote reservoir? I know Musclecar did that with a mid 60's mustang a couple of years ago.
I've always been concerned with overheating with my clone. It has never been an issue with the regular 69 front end and I plan to do a lot cruising in this car. I can almost assure you that I will have some type of overheating issues with this car if I don't make some changes. I've even thought about one of the premium aluminum radiators and large electric fans. Mo money.
Good luck Mike. Keep us informed on the outcome.

[Aero426]

How did they keep the NASCAR Daytona's cool? Mike, I'm sure somebody has done that....I'll have to do some searching.

They ran a grate over on of the headlight door openings or something like that I think.

When you see a race wing car with the headlight opened up, it was to get air flow to things like an oil cooler directly behind the headlight opening.   It also helps that the race car has no inner fenders like the street version.   It was also common to see custom duct work inside the center of the nose of the race car to manage what's coming in. 

[Dave Kanofsky]

Do you have the seal on at the back of the hood? 
I have heard that removing that seal will help evacuate hot air from the engine compartment.

[NYCMille]

Nope... seal has been removed...

[ds440]

(NOT an expert, but...)

Mike, stupid question, but are you sure you are running the right fluids for your application?  Considering the car, the performance, autocross, etc, you might need to step up to some heavy duty racing fluids?  The other thing to consider is that if moisture is getting into the system (or the fluid rather) the boiling point of brake fluid drops.  How much?  Dunno.

But it also might come down to, if you are autocrossing it a lot, you might just have to change the fluid out more often (?).  I know some drag racers have to change their clutch fluid REALLY often...but that's a different application.  But, theoretically, if you are banging the gears just as hard...that generates heat, etc?

Are you sure that it is the underhood temps that are causing the overheating?  Maybe (and that's a BIG maybe) if you can configure some kind of trick brake cooler vents/duct work it might help.  I'm know they make aftermarket kits for Mustangs, BMWs, etc....but a '69 Daytona?!?  You maybe able to find something that works with the Viper brake setup, though?

These are just thoughts, Mike.  I'm NO expert.  But the key is going to be being certain what the cause is first.  To me it seems odd that if the headers are only 500-550 degrees that it's boiling your fluids.  That doesn't seem *that* excessive. 


Maybe post this in the tech forums - Firefighter and the guys might be able to help.  Plus there maybe some SCCA racers forums out there that might be able to help.  Good luck.

[moparstuart]

  are you just running a standard clutch fan or electric fan ?

  maybe an electric pusher fan in front of the radiator also , the more air you push in the more that will get forced out ?  more flow 

[mauve66]

if you have the room to hide it try a cool can like they use for fuel, of course you'll have to raise the amount of fluid in the entire system but, 
maybe try moving up in brake fluid dot spec  dot 5 boiling point is 356F, dot 5.1 is 376F

this link has different temps than another one i went to but it gives you some specs and talks about racing rluid also

http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/superbluefluid.php

[NYCMille]

DS - Running RBF600 brake fluid, has a boiling point of 600 degrees, run the same in the Charger as well. We actually just bled the entire system again because we thought moisture may have been an issue. One thing that interesting is that we also keep leaking fluid out of the filler caps on the master - we've changed the master once and the caps twice but it has yet to resolve the issue. For that fluid to leak past the caps I would have to think that there is some exorbitant amount pressure building up in that master. I run a hyrdroboost unit and it's set up the exact same way as the Charger and I've never had an issue in that car.

These are just thoughts, Mike.  I'm NO expert.  But the key is going to be being certain what the cause is first.  To me it seems odd that if the headers are only 500-550 degrees that it's boiling your fluids.  That doesn't seem *that* excessive.

- This is the problem... I'm simply not sure, I'm to look at logical things first.

moparstuart - running twin spal electric fans. The engine temp is constant at 170-185 even in traffic. Question for you - are you running the rubber sheeting on the inside of your engine bay, like a factory set-up or has it been removed to let in more air flow?

[moparstuart]

 I know i have some of them , I do have  the fender small metal wheel well plates removed ,I actuall couldnt find them when i put the car back together and have not gotten around to finding some.

all the nose close off flappers are installed .     My air grabber hood does the trick of letting air in around the motor

[BigBlockSam]

on nascar cars  they use small fans on the brake caliper and discs . that might help

[tan top]

on nascar cars  they use small fans on the brake caliper and discs . that might help

yeah was just going say seen a few big block a bodys .... with big tube fender wall  headers with a small  fan  angled towards the the master cylinder ................