Optimum Motor Choice

[Lostsheep]

Mkay lemme try and make my question as simple as I can. I have always been a fan of the Ford small blocks. But the cars I put those in could weigh half as much as my new Charger. So they were fast to start with and only got faster.

Now with the Charger and its larger mass, what is gonna give me that same feel/performance? Know that my car is equipped with a 318 as of right now, and I want as little of a headache as possible in what ever motor is decided to give me what I'm looking for. I sure as hell don't want some kid in his daddy paid for LS6 Camaro with 500 hp to wax my ass on the street. I'm way too competitive for that and have kept them beatin till now. What do the experts think, y'all been playing with these big bodied cars longer than I have.

[Beer]

Stock LS6 has 405 HP, the LS1's are about 345-350 HP (depends on the year). Most of the Modding of LS1 and LS6 put them at 400-550 HP. The beauty of the LS1/6 is you can safely put a 150 wet shot of NO2 to it. and be at 500 HP for under a grand of mod money.

No matter how fast ya are, there will be someone faster.

Build what you can afford and what makes you happy.

Regardless if you get beat, their LS1/6 will not be a classic and a part of muscle car history for a long time, unlike the Classic Charger, big or smallblock.

Here is my LS1 BTW
Just a Cold Air Intake and Cat Back exhaust, more mods coming when the Charger is done...(if that ever happens!)


I fully expect the Charger I am working on to beat the Vette in the 1/8 or 1/4, top end the Vette will get it.

To win at the track you don't need to be the fastest, just the most consistant.

I bet I will be the token Smallblock Stroker vote LOL

Cheers
Beer

[Ghoste]

Without knowing it, you've answered your own question.  More mass needs more power.  To move X mass, X distance, at X rate always requires a specific energy consumption and a stroked big block is going to provide that in the easiest fashion.
It's all about bringing a bigger hammer.

[Lostsheep]

  Not really getting a soild vote of opinion here.

[brian_charger74]

It all depends on how much you want to spend and how fast you want to go. I Have a 340. its great. But after 2 years I'm think about more. So a 440 is being planned. My 340 has about 375 hp and cost me around 4000.00. The BB could cost a LOT more depending on how much HP I want out of it.


                                                                                                                 -Brian

[andy74]

for drag racing or strong street set up its hard to beat a big block,the only draw back being weight!if your going for a handling/solo/road course type car,small blocks with deep gears,and a stroker will help-like the saying goes,"speed costs money,how fast do you want to spend?"

[Ghoste]

I'd be more surprised if you did get a solid vote.   The invariables are just as I described.   You will need a specific amount of power to move a specific mass at a specific rate.   The variable is that there are a number of ways to achieve that specific energy invariable and everyone who has ever built an engine is going to have an idea about it based on what has worked best for them.

[Chryco Psycho]

basically it will cost the same $$ to build any engine so I would go big unless you want to have milage as well having said that  you can even get decent milage from a big block as well . A 360 is the best choice for a small block , it has a lot more torque for a small block & will make a lot of power with minor mods as well 

[morepower]

stroked big block

[Lightning]

ok, here's a few questions:

1) what's the weight of a '68-'70 B-body
2) what's the weight difference between a small block (lets say a 340 in this case) and a big block (440)
3) what's the weight of a 426?
4) what's the weight of a M-body? (I NEED to know, lol)

[Chryco Psycho]

1] 68-70 B body will be 3600-3800 lbs
2] 170 lbs
3] Hemi ? 750-800lbs
4] ?

[Ghoste]

I'd bet they're pretty close to the B-body weight.

[Ghoste]

I take it back.  I find published shipping weights of 3300 to 3400 for a Mirada.

[Silver R/T]

i would go with 440

[Lightning]

so it it's only a 170 pound weight difference between a small block and a big block, then by all means put a stroked 440 into it! this way the extra cubes will definately make up for the weight difference, and you can find aftermarket torsion bars all over the place to help out on the handling.

[Ghoste]

Even though I agree with you on using big blocks, 170 lbs is no small amount off the front end.  When people move batteries to the trunk or install aluminum water pump housings just to gain a few pounds...
Come to think of it, if you did all the aluminum goodies and so on, it'd soon weigh almost the same as the stock smallblock. 

[Ghoste]

You need to balance it out though.  If I didn't care about weight at all, I may as well drive an Imperial but if you're going to get obsessive about it, you better be looking at an A-body or smaller.

[Duey]

Like Ghoste said, big.  If you run a B-body, you'll want a stroked 440 (493) to minimize chances of other guys kicking your butt...

If you don't mind having a respectable loss from time to time, a well-massaged 440 is hard to beat for bang-for-the-buck...

Cheers
Duey

[Silver R/T]

strokers dont last long

[morepower]

why dont they lastlong?

[69bananabeast]

It all depends on how much you want to spend and how fast you want to go. I Have a 340. its great. But after 2 years I'm think about more. So a 440 is being planned. My 340 has about 375 hp and cost me around 4000.00. The BB could cost a LOT more depending on how much HP I want out of it.


                                                                                                                                                                         -Brian

It really does depend on how fast you want to go and how much you want to spend . I am Currently pulling my 318 while the machine shop is finishing my 446 although I've had to dig really deep to make it all happen I'd say by the time everythings done I'd have prolly spend somewhere near 7-8K  including motor, gear swap , and a Locker.  I should be cranking around 500 horse and I think I'll be happy with that.  What it all boils down to is how fast you want to go, what you can afford, and can you be satisfied.

[Chryco Psycho]

strokers can last a long time if they are properly built , using a short rod kills rod ratio & can have a big effect on longevity

[Ghoste]

Don't most of the big block Chrysler stroker plans maintain a pretty good rod ratio?   Better than Chevy stock ratios?

[Sledge57]

400/471 stroker  

[firefighter3931]

400/471 stroker  

a 470 lowdeck or 493 rb based stroker is the best way to go.....torque RULES !  

Ron

[sandman21]

I hate to sound cliche' but...
there's no replacement for displacement...
'nuff said.

[Chryco Psycho]

some of the big inch strokers drop the rod ratio into the same zone as the chev engines

[Ghoste]

Which ones should be avoided?

[firefighter3931]

Which ones should be avoided?

Lowdeck 4.15 stroke combos...not good for long life on the street and poor rod ratio.

Ron

[Ghoste]

These rod ratios that approach Chevy territory have me wondering, why did GM use them in the first place?

[firefighter3931]

These rod ratios that approach Chevy territory have me wondering, why did GM use them in the first place?

You're assuming chevy engine designers knew what they were doing  

Ron

[Ghoste]

Well, I'm trying to assume that.

[Steve P.]

I like the small block strokers as the are much lighter, cheaper, wind higher, more readily available and did I mention they are LIGHT...............   Also less space taken in engine bay. Smaller headers and all the water pumps are aluminum.. Also, did I mention they are light??

[Lightning]

if you use aluminum heads it's even lighter!

[Lostsheep]

Thanks alot for the input guys.

[MoparYoungGun]

I would build a big block stroker. Nothing like 600ft lbs of torque on the street !

[Ghoste]

Not a bad start for the strip either. 

[Lostsheep]

Not a bad start for the strip either.  

True

[Lowprofile]

There is no replacement for Cubic inches
That being said, build the car for the way you like to drive. Blvd bruiser or Weekend warrior, a stroker might be just the ticket. Everyday driving, a nicely warmed over 360 ci. Like to drive long weekend trips?? How about a Fuel Injected 440ci with a 5 speed & a Dana 60! Really think this thru before dumping your hard earned $$$$$$ into your drivetrain. Good Luck Bro!

[Lostsheep]

Thanks for the advice, that makes good sense, but your avatar scares me.

[Lowprofile]

Don't be afraid of the Clown, Bro.......Unless, of course, you've been Naughty LOL HAHAHAHAHAHA

[SpudRacer]

I've got a 69 Charger R/T SE with a NON-numbers matching 440.  I'm thinking of throwing in a 572 Indy Legend Hemi.  This can put out up to 750hp.  How much power can the stock 727B handle?  Can it be modified to handle that kind of power?

Tom

[Ghoste]

You'll hurt a stock one if you throw that at it but it can be fortified to take it.

[firefighter3931]

  Contact CRT (Cope Racing Transmissions) for a bullit proof torqueflight if you decide to drop a 572 into the 69. If you don't have a Dana 60 in the car....you should be looking for one of those too.

Ron

[Jon Smith]

I know people putting more power through a stock box, but they're risking it a bit, you might be better off getting a good one built
whether you need a dana or not probably depends if you plan to run slicks

[Blue flame]

Ok, guys a dumb newbe question please... what the heck does a Strocker mean (small or big one)  

[Duey]

Ok, guys a dumb newbe question please... what the heck does a Strocker mean (small or big one)  

Changing crankshaft and connecting rod to provide a longer-than-stock stroke.  It increases cubic inches and torque, within reason.  Too long a stroke will cause excessive cylinder wall forces and wear out the engine prematurely.  Prtty good increase in power for the modification.

[73chgrSE]

I've heard from several sources that the 400 block is a strong block and a really good choice to stroke, so I will take one of those please. Also I couldn't help notice that the 426 was not included in your list.

[Blue flame]

Ok, guys a dumb newbe question please... what the heck does a Strocker mean (small or big one)  

Changing crankshaft and connecting rod to provide a longer-than-stock stroke.  It increases cubic inches and torque, within reason.  Too long a stroke will cause excessive cylinder wall forces and wear out the engine prematurely.  Prtty good increase in power for the modification.

Gotcha, thx dude! Now I know what I gotta do this winter, once when my 318 ci is home   

later,
Afshin

[Lostsheep]

Well my final decsion has ended up being a turbo feed magnum 360. Just waitng on the funds to build the fuel system and it should be goin in.

[Rocky]

Ok, guys a dumb newbe question please... what the heck does a Strocker mean (small or big one)  

Changing crankshaft and connecting rod to provide a longer-than-stock stroke.  It increases cubic inches and torque, within reason.  Too long a stroke will cause excessive cylinder wall forces and wear out the engine prematurely.  Prtty good increase in power for the modification.

Actually on with a smallblock the connecting rod stays the same length, it is the crank and pistions that are different.

[Blue flame]

Yupp, but I think the better way to go on a small block would be to make it ready to rev it & get power at higher RPM's... so say around 8000... right ? 

[Lostsheep]

Well the Comp cam is in and rockers are sittin in my truck. Although I think I need to do some rear frame rail fixin before I end up finishing the fuel system. Got the new tank in but the rails looked alot crappier than I remember.

[Challenger340]

"Best choice" engine opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and for differing reasons. Mine is just for collecting lint, LOL !

It all depends on what the person is after for the particular application, budgets, and targeted driving styles. I wish it were easy to say "this is it", but that never happens.
The Mopar "corner" in my shop is plugged with different projects, half a dozen mega blocks ranging from 499, 528,540,545, RB blocks from 440 to 499, lowdecks from 451 to 499, smallblocks from 377 to 408, I can't keep track of "whats what" or who's anymore. Right now all I'm concentrating on is getting the guys who go to the Vegas "Mopars at the strip" done for end of March,

Anyways, imho, nuthh'in wrong with a well built pump gas 440. They are cheap, easy, and VERY cost effective !  Funny how 40 years later, the factory engineering still fits the bill for a heavy B body sufficiently to put a grin on my ugly mug !

I've still got a beer bet, with another local builder,(a chebby star), that anytime he wants, on a $2000  budget, he builds a 454, I'll do a 440, and we'll use HIS dyno for the results. Stock iron heads, stock valves, pump gas.
He usually blabbers alot, but he's still NEVER stood up and accepted, decades later.
I think his pee-pee shrinks, and gets hard to find when drinking beer, tough to clear the zipper.

Do a "total budget" first, then seperate the engine portion, and then ask on here again. You'll get some great info, great moderators and resources, some of the best on the internet.

Just my 2 cents.
Bob out.

[Lostsheep]

Well it has been fairly budget to this point. Some things have been expensive but not too far out of the realm. I have bought things out of order due to friends making deals on parts for me. But its getting closer and closer everday.