Questions about this "new" training method

[jdiesel33]

For all of you workout guys, maybe you can provide some insight. Over the past say 5 or so years, I always see personal trainers that work for the gym training clients in a way that I dont really understand. The vast majority of the way I see them training people involves balance boards, balancing balls, and other various exercises that seem to be centered around balancing on something while you lift your weight, if there even is any extra weight used. And if weight is used, it is very light weight. What is going on with this? I am not saying that these arent useful in some small capacity for some people, but to have the entire workout centered on this? MAYBE I can see using it right at first for people who are horribly out of shape or women that havent worked out before and I am not even completely sold on using it for that. Like yest I saw a trainer training a guy who was already slender, and the entire workout was very light weight exercises all centered around balancing on something or balancing on one foot, etc.. I know this guy didnt come in there and say "My goal is to be skinnier and more cut". He had to have told them he wanted to build some muscle. Are all of these trainees being duped or is it me? I normally read everything I can get my hands on that involves training or nutrition and I've never read anything that talks about these types of exercises, certainly not related to getting bigger and/or stronger. I will occasionally read about laying on the big rubber ball to do flyes or something like that, but it is very minimal. i know balancing makes you use some muscles that you wouldnt normally use as much such as your core muscles in the abdominal area and such, but come on. Am I just misinformed here? Why arent these people using regular weight lifting exercises that build more muscle and burn more calories?

[ac_knight]

It almost sounds like the Physical Therapy I did after my knee surgery.  Alot of balancing on one leg, light to no weight.  But that was at a Physical Therapist's office not the gym.

[jdiesel33]

It almost sounds like the Physical Therapy I did after my knee surgery.  Alot of balancing on one leg, light to no weight.  But that was at a Physical Therapist's office not the gym.

Yeah, at first that is what I thought, but then I saw that they had everybody doing it. Now that I think about it, it is only the trainers that work for the gym. I have never seen an independent trainer training people this way. I wonder if that has something to do with it?

[Troy]

Best I can guess is core toning/strength. It's one thing to lift an object on a solid base - you can target/isolate muscles or groups. However, when you are unstable it forces many different muscle groups to work in concert and even small corrections really work the muscles (thousands of corrections usually). I'd rather be outside playing a sport and I hate gyms but I have been trying to get in better shape. I have one of those big beach ball looking things and I've been doing normal exercises like push ups and crunches with it. It's actually very difficult to master.

Troy

[jdiesel33]

Best I can guess is core toning/strength. It's one thing to lift an object on a solid base - you can target/isolate muscles or groups. However, when you are unstable it forces many different muscle groups to work in concert and even small corrections really work the muscles (thousands of corrections usually). I'd rather be outside playing a sport and I hate gyms but I have been trying to get in better shape. I have one of those big beach ball looking things and I've been doing normal exercises like push ups and crunches with it. It's actually very difficult to master.

Troy

I definitely agree with you there Troy. It certainly uses some different muscles that you dont normally use. And it is indeed difficult to master for a while. And like I said, I could see some benefit in working those in every now and again, but I was just wondering why they never work some regular lifting in!!!!

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I think the core training thing is all the rage right now...ever since that Biggest Loser show with Jillian Michaels.
Never really liked the gym atmosphere myself....like to lift free weights at home.  This past 3 months I have been more disciplined allocating more time in the day for workouts

[Back N Black]

You got to start out with a strong core, if not its kinda useless to have big arms and upper body, if you don't have the core to support it. The only thing that separates the upper body from the lower body is muscle.

[mikesbbody]

Troy is right, its the core training (a bunch of crap if you ask me)  stick with the real deal! squats (deep ones not sissy ones) bench press (none of this half way bs), deadlifts, shoulder press, curls, shoulder press etc free weights are best imo.

[Troy]

Perhaps some people don't want to have huge muscles (and prefer to be flexible)? Most of the sports I participate in require speed, agility, balance, and stamina - not brute strength. Bulk is bad. I only use relatively heavy weights for my legs (helps hold an edge when skiing). Balance especially is all about the core. I actually learned that from my Judo instructor when I was about 11. He had a huge beer gut but had a rock solid stance and was surprisingly quick with little wasted motion. The only weights we lifted were other people.

Troy

[Rolling_Thunder]

flexibility is something that is very important - my best friend Amanda does the whole balance and light weight thing - It works very well for her but she seems to work for a really nice figure -

Myself am a bigger guy - starting the whole fitness thing again after my car accident a couple months back - I am more of a free weights / jogging kinda guy...    got a long way to go but I have always been a very flexible person (no laughing) - so i never felt the need to try to improve on that... 

The balancing thing was explained to me - it simply causes you to use support muscles that you dont normally do when lifting weights in a isolated muscle group. much like troy said - the idea of this is to help the smaller groups of muscles as well as the large...     

[green69rt]

This is my 2 cents.  Find a trainer that will not hurt you!!!!  Many of them are new on the job and go at it like you want ot be Mr/Mrs America.  Define your goals and remember that you have to have a good base to work on (core strength.)  Body changes take a lot of time, after 20 the more you want to change the more time it takes.  Plan on 5 or 6 years of small changes.  Don't hurt yourself and keep at it. 

Gosh, sounds like a commercial, doesn't it??

[skip68]

My    is buy a Wii and get the Wii fitness program for supplemental training!  You will be amazed what this game/workout does!!! Your body is analyzed on the board that you stand on. You put in your birthdate, height and it analyzes the rest. (sometimes it's says your older than you are, which is a kick in the butt to some! )  Then you have all these challenges to line your body up, and it's harder than you would think. This program does yoga, endurance training, skiing, bowling, golf,. you name it! THIS ACTUALLY WORKS FOR BALANCE, STRUCTURE AND YOUR CORE!!!! TRY IT! Cheaper than a gym, and you can work out in the privacy of your own home! (With no men blowdrying their pubes!  )

P.S. If you don't like it, go buy a cool car video game and call it good!   

Mrs.Skip68

[mikesbbody]

Troy, its funny you mention you Judo instructor it reminds me of a guy I use to lift with (powerlifting) he held all the squat records and had a big gut but it was solid! not everyone wants to be big this is true and i should have pointed out that the core training is vital in heavy squatting and even helps for deadlifts. I have tried some of new style training like light dumbell press on a Swiss ball and was surprised how hard it was! your not as stable as you are on a bench. another thing is we are bombarded with ab this and that a new ab machine every other day! its big business

[RD]

does lifting 16oz curls count as weightlifting or core training?  I am lifting a weight, but the net results of the barley pop are going straight to my core.  any idears?

[mikesbbody]

does lifting 16oz curls count as weightlifting or core training?  I am lifting a weight, but the net results of the barley pop are going straight to my core.  any idears?

Both? 

[jb666]

I'm old school when it comes to the gym.. If Arnold wasn't doing it, I don't do it..  After 10 years of competitive powerlifting, I've realized (too late) that strength isn't everything. The sore joints, hurting body parts, sprains and tears... After having 1300 lbs come crashing down on me when the incline leg sled platform BROKE during a rep I realized I should change my ways.. What good is being 275 and benching 605 going to do me?? NOTHING!!

So I'm not 230 and heading down to 210.. Te me, it's about being comfortable. Being flexible and BEING HEALTHY!! I've done enough juice to choke a small herd of horses.. Those days are behind me and I survived them, thank God..

Now all I want is to look ok and feel GREAT.

[mikesbbody]

I hear ya buddy, exact same reason's i got out of powerlifting only I was never on the juice. I got sick of the injuries, hardly being able to get out of bed in the morning, and no matter what, there was always someone stronger (beit a genetic advantage, roids, or both) being healthy is number one! but I also agree with what you said about the old school or Arnold method for size and strength if that is what you are wanting from your training.

[jdiesel33]

I'm old school when it comes to the gym.. If Arnold wasn't doing it, I don't do it..  After 10 years of competitive powerlifting, I've realized (too late) that strength isn't everything. The sore joints, hurting body parts, sprains and tears... After having 1300 lbs come crashing down on me when the incline leg sled platform BROKE during a rep I realized I should change my ways.. What good is being 275 and benching 605 going to do me?? NOTHING!!

So I'm not 230 and heading down to 210.. Te me, it's about being comfortable. Being flexible and BEING HEALTHY!! I've done enough juice to choke a small herd of horses.. Those days are behind me and I survived them, thank God..

Now all I want is to look ok and feel GREAT.

I guess I havent gotten to that point yet. I am 36 and the most important component of working out to me at this point is strength. I am currently benching 405 and squating 600. I thought that was pretty decent until I saw your numbers!!! For some reason I really feel a sense of accomplishment and comfort when I go somewhere and I know I am either the strongest dude there or at least in the top 3. Not that strength is by any means the most important component of fighting, but if something goes down and I have to defend myself or family, I feel better being stronger. I've done it both ways and being stronger makes a bit easier. I'm sure I will reach the same point you have in a couple of years, if I am still able to move at all.

[jb666]

I'm old school when it comes to the gym.. If Arnold wasn't doing it, I don't do it..  After 10 years of competitive powerlifting, I've realized (too late) that strength isn't everything. The sore joints, hurting body parts, sprains and tears... After having 1300 lbs come crashing down on me when the incline leg sled platform BROKE during a rep I realized I should change my ways.. What good is being 275 and benching 605 going to do me?? NOTHING!!

So I'm not 230 and heading down to 210.. Te me, it's about being comfortable. Being flexible and BEING HEALTHY!! I've done enough juice to choke a small herd of horses.. Those days are behind me and I survived them, thank God..

Now all I want is to look ok and feel GREAT.

I guess I havent gotten to that point yet. I am 36 and the most important component of working out to me at this point is strength. I am currently benching 405 and squating 600. I thought that was pretty decent until I saw your numbers!!! For some reason I really feel a sense of accomplishment and comfort when I go somewhere and I know I am either the strongest dude there or at least in the top 3. Not that strength is by any means the most important component of fighting, but if something goes down and I have to defend myself or family, I feel better being stronger. I've done it both ways and being stronger makes a bit easier. I'm sure I will reach the same point you have in a couple of years, if I am still able to move at all.

See, and I took it the complete opposite direction. Once I hit 30, use of the juice stopped. I know the body handles things different when you are in your 30's (not saying it's SAFE before then, don't get me wrong), but I didn't feel like having my liver drop out of me one day when I was squatting.  My greatest #'s were:

605 bench
315 clean (paused) military free-weight press
315 preacher curl (competition)
715 squat
1350 sled
Curling 125 lb dumb bells was like warming up with 35's.
I was always HUGE into leg power, until the day the machine broke on me (literally) and I felt my back snap like I had been electrocuted......

These days my #'s are a lot lower. I'm lucky to hit 8 clean reps of 315 on the bench, but keep in mind I am not training like an animal any more.. I'd rather FEEL GOOD.. I couldn't walk for 3 days after my 'normal' leg routine...

[jdiesel33]

I'm old school when it comes to the gym.. If Arnold wasn't doing it, I don't do it..  After 10 years of competitive powerlifting, I've realized (too late) that strength isn't everything. The sore joints, hurting body parts, sprains and tears... After having 1300 lbs come crashing down on me when the incline leg sled platform BROKE during a rep I realized I should change my ways.. What good is being 275 and benching 605 going to do me?? NOTHING!!

So I'm not 230 and heading down to 210.. Te me, it's about being comfortable. Being flexible and BEING HEALTHY!! I've done enough juice to choke a small herd of horses.. Those days are behind me and I survived them, thank God..

Now all I want is to look ok and feel GREAT.

I guess I havent gotten to that point yet. I am 36 and the most important component of working out to me at this point is strength. I am currently benching 405 and squating 600. I thought that was pretty decent until I saw your numbers!!! For some reason I really feel a sense of accomplishment and comfort when I go somewhere and I know I am either the strongest dude there or at least in the top 3. Not that strength is by any means the most important component of fighting, but if something goes down and I have to defend myself or family, I feel better being stronger. I've done it both ways and being stronger makes a bit easier. I'm sure I will reach the same point you have in a couple of years, if I am still able to move at all.

See, and I took it the complete opposite direction. Once I hit 30, use of the juice stopped. I know the body handles things different when you are in your 30's (not saying it's SAFE before then, don't get me wrong), but I didn't feel like having my liver drop out of me one day when I was squatting.  My greatest #'s were:

605 bench
315 clean (paused) military free-weight press
315 preacher curl (competition)
715 squat
1350 sled
Curling 125 lb dumb bells was like warming up with 35's.
I was always HUGE into leg power, until the day the machine broke on me (literally) and I felt my back snap like I had been electrocuted......

These days my #'s are a lot lower. I'm lucky to hit 8 clean reps of 315 on the bench, but keep in mind I am not training like an animal any more.. I'd rather FEEL GOOD.. I couldn't walk for 3 days after my 'normal' leg routine...

Damn, quite impressive. I think the most impressive number there to me is the 315 preacher curl!

I guess one thing in my favor at this point is that I have never used juice or any supplement for that matter. I use a milk and egg protein powder every morning in my oatmeal and that is the extent of my supplementation. Never used anything else. I have also never used a "Power Lifting" training style program. I mix in sets of 3-5 reps on occasion, but I guess my workouts arent specifically geared towards power.

[jb666]

I'm old school when it comes to the gym.. If Arnold wasn't doing it, I don't do it..  After 10 years of competitive powerlifting, I've realized (too late) that strength isn't everything. The sore joints, hurting body parts, sprains and tears... After having 1300 lbs come crashing down on me when the incline leg sled platform BROKE during a rep I realized I should change my ways.. What good is being 275 and benching 605 going to do me?? NOTHING!!

So I'm not 230 and heading down to 210.. Te me, it's about being comfortable. Being flexible and BEING HEALTHY!! I've done enough juice to choke a small herd of horses.. Those days are behind me and I survived them, thank God..

Now all I want is to look ok and feel GREAT.

I guess I havent gotten to that point yet. I am 36 and the most important component of working out to me at this point is strength. I am currently benching 405 and squating 600. I thought that was pretty decent until I saw your numbers!!! For some reason I really feel a sense of accomplishment and comfort when I go somewhere and I know I am either the strongest dude there or at least in the top 3. Not that strength is by any means the most important component of fighting, but if something goes down and I have to defend myself or family, I feel better being stronger. I've done it both ways and being stronger makes a bit easier. I'm sure I will reach the same point you have in a couple of years, if I am still able to move at all.

See, and I took it the complete opposite direction. Once I hit 30, use of the juice stopped. I know the body handles things different when you are in your 30's (not saying it's SAFE before then, don't get me wrong), but I didn't feel like having my liver drop out of me one day when I was squatting.  My greatest #'s were:

605 bench
315 clean (paused) military free-weight press
315 preacher curl (competition)
715 squat
1350 sled
Curling 125 lb dumb bells was like warming up with 35's.
I was always HUGE into leg power, until the day the machine broke on me (literally) and I felt my back snap like I had been electrocuted......

These days my #'s are a lot lower. I'm lucky to hit 8 clean reps of 315 on the bench, but keep in mind I am not training like an animal any more.. I'd rather FEEL GOOD.. I couldn't walk for 3 days after my 'normal' leg routine...

Damn, quite impressive. I think the most impressive number there to me is the 315 preacher curl!

I guess one thing in my favor at this point is that I have never used juice or any supplement for that matter. I use a milk and egg protein powder every morning in my oatmeal and that is the extent of my supplementation. Never used anything else. I have also never used a "Power Lifting" training style program. I mix in sets of 3-5 reps on occasion, but I guess my workouts arent specifically geared towards power.

Well all I can say about that is you're a better person than me.. I needed the edge and I jumped for it.. not 'proud' of it, but I NEVER lie about it. There's no reason. I'm just thankful I'm healthy now. I had a liver problem in Feb 2008 that I almost died from and my entire life has changed since then. If I could do it all over again I'd have a completely different routine.. Hi reps, medium weight and live life TONED.....

[jdiesel33]

Hey, at least you were able to jump off of that train in time!!!! I am glad you can still workout and be healthy and all of that good stuff. We need more people like you warning others about the dangers and pitfalls of juice. You should be proud of your efforts on that.

I guess I will just ride this out a bit longer and see where my natural limits are.

[jb666]

Hey, at least you were able to jump off of that train in time!!!! I am glad you can still workout and be healthy and all of that good stuff. We need more people like you warning others about the dangers and pitfalls of juice. You should be proud of your efforts on that.

I guess I will just ride this out a bit longer and see where my natural limits are.

Yeah but my arrogance and "superman" mentality for the 15+ years I was taking it leaves a bit to be desired......

[jdiesel33]

Hey, at least you were able to jump off of that train in time!!!! I am glad you can still workout and be healthy and all of that good stuff. We need more people like you warning others about the dangers and pitfalls of juice. You should be proud of your efforts on that.

I guess I will just ride this out a bit longer and see where my natural limits are.

Yeah but my arrogance and "superman" mentality for the 15+ years I was taking it leaves a bit to be desired......

Live and learn my friend. We're guys, I'm not sure we have the option of not thinking that way. 
At least you had and still have something to back that attitude up with, not like some of these punks that walk around my gym who think they are bad ass when they arent. Like the guys who walk with their arms way out b/c they think their lats are so big that they cant put their arms down or that large group of guys who dont work out legs at all. Or the overly tanned and cant get enough of looking in the mirror even while they are getting a drink of water guys. 

[jb666]

Hey, at least you were able to jump off of that train in time!!!! I am glad you can still workout and be healthy and all of that good stuff. We need more people like you warning others about the dangers and pitfalls of juice. You should be proud of your efforts on that.

I guess I will just ride this out a bit longer and see where my natural limits are.

Yeah but my arrogance and "superman" mentality for the 15+ years I was taking it leaves a bit to be desired......

Live and learn my friend. We're guys, I'm not sure we have the option of not thinking that way. 
At least you had and still have something to back that attitude up with, not like some of these punks that walk around my gym who think they are bad ass when they arent. Like the guys who walk with their arms way out b/c they think their lats are so big that they cant put their arms down or that large group of guys who dont work out legs at all. Or the overly tanned and cant get enough of looking in the mirror even while they are getting a drink of water guys. 

Oh I LOVE messing with those guys.. Most of them can't SPOT you when you have heavy on the bar.. They'll come up with something like "oh man, I'd love to help but my shoulder's bothering me today!". Yeah, sure it is, go back to the mirror.

Most gym egos are bigger then the person carrying them around.