My "Sick Pack" 440

[maxwellwedge]

OK floats are up! Getting better and better! Now whats up with me seeing these 179.00 vacuum retard with an electric hookup on them for distributors on eBay? My FSM has got nothing on them. There listed as a "six pack" item? Also I've found a "green vacuum delay" for 440 and Hemi ? Anyone enlighten me?

Vacuum retard -It's a 1971 440-6 thing - don't worry about it. Also on 70 440-4bbl.
Green can - '69 Hemi 4-speed thing.

A standard single point, dual point or electronic, properly set-up is fine.

[b5blue]

Thanks again Maxwellwedge!  Just took it out for some gas...what a difference! Getting closer... idle is smooth and strong...pulling vacuum @ 17 as Firefighter predicted. Next I'll massage timing and figure out vacuum pod adjustment on distributor then go back into the carbs, like I thought the rubber cones for the float height are crappy, got a good source to order 2 new ones? I don't think they were replaced last rebuild (like I asked). I couldn't open it up there were cops all over (three sitting at the exit to the neighborhood) and three more in the 3 mile round trip to Sunoco! Figures first time out after all this work and replacing the rear springs! I can't wait to get the new 145K torque converter in and the 727's shift returned to stock (It shifts "hard" BAM in 2nd and 3rd, a leftover from it's "drag racing" years)         

[b5blue]

OK got the new needle seats in just in time! One of the "O" rings crumbled to pieces removing it! Re set wet level to just weeping on the out boards and even in the center and went out for a spin. Running great now, fires right up and gets busy when you stomp it. No lag but with the high stall in there the RPM's jump past where it would be anyway. In the next week or two I hope to get the 145K converter in and that will put me at std. six pack settings, same cam, similar heads (346), same valve springs, fuel lines setup, 3.23 sure grip, matched "T" bars and rear springs (I even got the A-12 steel plates under the LCA bumpers and reinforcing plates under them too) Next will be the 11 3/4 rotors (slider type) and a column rebuild. Thanks to everyone for their input!! I'll post what happens next as things develop!       

[maxwellwedge]

Happy Happy Joy Joy for you!

[b5blue]

Thanks for your input on both threads Maxwellwedge! Now I'm eager to finish the running gear...

[maxwellwedge]

 

[firefighter3931]

Ok Neal, we need proof.....where's the tire smoke !!!! 



Ron

[b5blue]

Hey Ron! I bought "Vista for dummies" yesterday, I'm working on it! (I'm lucky to find my way in and out of here) 

[firefighter3931]

Hey Ron! I bought "Vista for dummies" yesterday, I'm working on it! (I'm lucky to find my way in and out of here) 

You're doing just fine...keep at it. 


Ron

[b5blue]

OK update! fiddled with the settings more, I've got to get over to see Chuck at CJ's Auto to set idle RPMs and timing (no tack) but everything's going good! I've installed new rear springs, replaced the front LCAs with ones I re bushed and had reinforcing plates welded on to, found a slightly bent strut rod and replaced it along with both sides strut rod bushings, new standard 440/Hemi torsion bars, idler arm, set ride height, rebuilt the steering coupler, replaced the key lock and ignition switch and fabricated a bushing for in between the upper steering column bearing and the steering wheel and got it aligned at a Goodyear Dealer who "speaks fluent vintage MoPar" (finally!). Caster is off -1.6 on the left and -1 on the right still so I've got to get off set UCA bushings to fix that when I put the 11 3/4 disk set up on. Next is the 145K torque converter and get rid of the Green axle bearings (got a sweet pair of MoPar rear axle service pack sets from member "partsalot") Then I will be ready to burn up them back tires! (oh yea and pissed off 2 ricers today...no you may not cut me off!  )

[b5blue]

OK, vacuum gauge off manifold reads 17lb. @ idle as I mentioned earlier. Off the tube (center carb.) shown for "dist." it reads 5lb. @ idle and if I so much as tap the throttle it shoots to 20lb. (?). Should I go with manifold vacuum and adjust vacuum advance accordingly or stick with center carb. and adjust for tiny 5lb. signal? I got stuck in a traffic jam for about 45 min. and my temp started climbing up (got to 210). I'm sure vacuum advance is needed as high temp stuck in traffic was never a problem in the past. Mileage is suffering also @ about 6-8 mpg in the last 150 miles or so.(I did a search on vacuum advance and found allot of really good info...thanks again guys!) Anyone running a mostly stock set up six pack please give me input! THANKS!! Neal   

[maxwellwedge]

You need to go with the ported vacuum for the distributor on the center carb. Manifold vacuum will yank that poor little arm right off your plate  Check the FSM for the dist. vacuum specs. I would do it for you but I am at work trying to make enough money to buy Doug's Daytona! 

[b5blue]

Thanks once more! The FSM is for a 70 and my dist. is 72 NAPA rebuild, but I should be OK! GET THAT CAR!!!  (What threw me was the friggin jump to 20!!!)

[firefighter3931]

You need to go with the ported vacuum for the distributor on the center carb. Manifold vacuum will yank that poor little arm right off your plate  Check the FSM for the dist. vacuum specs. I would do it for you but I am at work trying to make enough money to buy Doug's Daytona! 

Jim is correct....manifold vacuum doesn't work well because as soon as you hammer the throttle the vac signal drops to zero and retards your timing. 

I would set the distributor up with 16-18* of base timing and 36* @2800-3000 rpm. This may require some distributor mods depending on what advance plate is currently installed. The plates can be welded up to limit the mechanical advance. I have the specs for plate slot measurement if you need them Neal.

The poor milage and hot engine temps are typical of a retarded timing curve and/or lean carb issue. 

I allways tune the ignition curve first before worrying about the jetting. 



Ron

[b5blue]

I put a light on the timing and @ 16 initial I get a whopping advance to 21 @ appox 2600-3000 RPM...popped the cap off and noticed the rotor had black "tracks" in the center like it had been firing to the shaft (probably from the crappy Beldin NAPA wires resistance). Ran to NAPA got a new "best you got" rotor and when I put it on noticed the dist. shaft has a fair amount of wobble in it and lifted "up" about 1/16-1/8 inch when I pulled up to remove the rotor! When I twist the shaft to check advance action it's stiff and seems to bind up at what I guess is about 5-6 degrees explaining the 21 @ 3K. When I hook up the vacuum advance put it in gear and tap the gas peddle it dies instantly. I'm thinking this dist. isn't worth trying to fix/modify.   

[maxwellwedge]

Probably less than that because that's 21* at the crank. Sounds like that distributor has seen better days. Heavy spring(s) and/or seized/binding advance plate and possibly shaft wobble. Do you have access to a distributor machine to give it a quick check? Invaluable for checking a lot of stuff including vacuum advance. Failing all that, get a new distributor. Is your current one single or dual point?

[b5blue]

That's just it, this dist. is a fresh NAPA rebuild...ordered a 73 440 to get one pre lean burn (with pointless ECU). this thing hasn't seen 1500 miles since out of the box. More new "bad" stuff! (I replaced the old one mostly because it had a bad crack in the housing and had been curved for drag race w no vacuum advance working and figured this would put me back to a "stock" set up)Don't get me wrong about NAPA I've used their stuff for over 30 years all over the USA but lately they have dropped the ball a few times. My local guys are trying real hard to help me. I keep trying to go common seance middle of the road and ending up wishing (in this case) I had just bought a whole new MoPar set up even though the new set-up has too aggressive of a curve for a daily driver situation. Chuck said he would fix it and modify the curve to what I need for 50-100 bucks, but I'm just pissed that a new rebuild needs anything and re-thinking my approach on ignition since finding the wobble, maybe 440 parts cores are mostly shot after 30 years?       

[firefighter3931]

Neal, do yourself a favor and order up a new MP distributor. The MP dizzy's have Mallory advance mechanisms installed and have adjustable stops so you can custom tailor the amount of mechanical advance. If you want to slow the curve down it's simply a matter of installing a stiffer spring. 


Ron

[b5blue]

Thanks Ron! That's the direction my thinking was heading. Reliability is a must with this thing or I've got to give up...and I'm not giving up. I just can't get over all the gremlins that crept into this project.   

[SeattleCharger]

    god, this stuff is complicated 

[b5blue]

OK (speaking of complicated) my big block book shows 4 part numbers for MP dist but has no reference? Ron could you get me a part number for the one you described?

[firefighter3931]

OK (speaking of complicated) my big block book shows 4 part numbers for MP dist but has no reference? Ron could you get me a part number for the one you described?

Here ya go Neal :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DCC%2D3690432&N=700+4294925143+4294839065+4294881256+400172+115&autoview=sku


Nice piece....comes complete with a new Tan cap and rotor 



Ron

[BigBlockSam]

thanks for all the great info guys . i'm building a 68 440 hp motor for my daytona replica. i'm taking the 6 pack set up off my 68 charger r/t . i have the original intake and carb for it . i'm just rebuilding the carb . it's a #' matching car . i'd like to get it back that way .

the daytona's just for fun . the six pack needs to be freshen up . it's hesitating , BIG TIME ,  when you stomp her.

Rene

[b5blue]

Thanks again Ron! In a frustrated panic yesterday I ordered a "lifetime warranty" rebuild from Advance Auto...it will be here soon and I'll do what I can with it...if it sucks too I'll take it back. But I'm getting one of these as soon as I can and I'll keep (Hopefully) the Advance one as a back up. Rene I'm glad any of this helps you that was the main point of this topic!! The first thing I would check is float levels and idle adjustments, if your outboards are set right you can take the air cleaner off and with your fingers (kinda make an upside down peace sign) and plug the 2 "outer most air bleeds" on each outboard carb >.  . .  .< one at a time. If idle goes up=too rich, if idle goes down=too lean. This assumes you know plugs, wires, timing ect. are all decent. The next checks go into "transition" but try that first and let us know what you have and what your running.

[b5blue]

DAMN! Here we go again! I tried to order a dist. from Ron's Link....they were out of stock, Mancini showed in stock called and they had none. Called Todd at Marsh Performance and he said he would pull one from a kit...told him to just send the whole kit (ECU,wiring,resistor and dist.) He said it should be there Wed., Friday comes still no Dist.! I try calling Todd and get no answer ("messages full"). A check with my bank shows no transaction (?) Finally JEG's has one in stock and it should be here Tue.!!! What's happening with Ma MoPar and our supply line! (Todd said he had 19 on "back order") I'm getting a damn tracking # this time! (sorry for the rant...I put off buying one for 14 years!!)