Engine Paint Code

[maxwellwedge]

No need to jump - I will talk you down off that ledge 

Those are  plastic caps I put over the inlet and outlet for painting.

[CornDogsCharger]

Question..... we had the exhaust manifolds ceramic coated.  If we paint the manifolds like you did, will they still burn off in the same way yours did?

Justin
"CornDog"

[maxwellwedge]

I honestly don't know ... If I had to guess ... I would think paint wouldn't stick too well on a ceramic coating.

[b5blue]

OK Maxwellwedge I'm coming back off the edge....I was just so bummed out when I came home and there was no box sitting by my door yesterday...it's been 2 weeks since I drove my Charger...maybe I should get a puppy....

[CornDogsCharger]

On this car, I can't remember if the owner painted the whole manifold as you did or if he just painted the edges.  Which way is correct or are they both accepted as "correct"?  Eventually will your manifolds look like this or will they pretty much stay as they are pictured above.  This car has been restored for about 4 years now.  Sorry for all the questions.  I just want this car to be correct.

Thanks
Justin
"CornDog"

[maxwellwedge]

The manifolds were hit pretty good like in my pics. Chrysler painted the whole engine with them on so they were pretty well completely covered. Chevy's didn't blast them like Chrysler - they may have had some kind of mask. Chrysler just wailed away on them.

[426HemiCharger]

Hemi Orange is really Top Banana when it gets burned  So that's how they did it!!!

[472 R/T SE]

Any tricks to keep the exhaust manifolds orange?

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Here is a '70 440-6 with their paint.

Thank you,

This will come in handy when I start my Roadrunner!

[426HemiCharger]

I think you could mix a heat resistant enamel with the engine paint or apply a high heat primer.  If that doesn't do it I don't know what will, I'd like to know too.

[CornDogsCharger]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

[maxwellwedge]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

Well - It sort of kills all the work and research they did to perfect it - I got the formula years ago from them but I never used it - I just kept buying it from them. Selling their paint helps fund all of their other projects of developing new stuff for all of us that no one else makes for our cars correctly.

[mopar_nut_440_6]

I would be interested in the code. Not because I am cheap but because I am north of the border and cannot easily get this stuff across, plus shipping is a killer for me.

[CornDogsCharger]

Yeah, I know what you mean.  I may not... who knows.  Plus anyways.... without the "correct" shine, it still isn't right.  I'm anxious to see how different Gibson's product is when compared to the other products that are available.  I may spray a junk valve cover with each brand... just to see how different they are.  

I loved Gibson's website.... I had to hurry up and X out of it... I would start spending way too much $$ that I don't need to.  

Justin
"CornDog"

[Rolling_Thunder]

Any tricks to keep the exhaust manifolds orange?

dont start the engine

[hemigeno]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

When I read this last night, I was kindof surprised to see this in a way, but also not surprised.  Justin, I know you're just trying to help out others in the hobby, and that's admirable.  This board is all about helping others, and there's a track record (especially within this Aerocar community) of doing exactly that.  There's more that should be considered before taking the step you've at least offered to do. 

Frank Badalson and Roger Gibson did not invent the color HemiOrange, nor were they original suppliers of engine paint for Chrysler either "back in the day" or now - so I hope no one comes to the incorrect conclusion that I'm advocating they have an absolute right to be the sole source of engine paint.  However, they have taken the time (and there's probably a BUNCH of time involved) to research and experiment with modern paint products which duplicate the original colors and sheen more closely than anyone else.  By volunteering to reverse-engineer the paint code from their product, you would be short-cutting the research and experimentation time they've already invested.  IMHO, there's a moral obligation not to do such a thing.

We depend on guys like Frank and Roger to spend the time doing this very type of research and experimentation to broaden the line of available (and CORRECT) reproduction parts for these cars.  When their efforts are taken advantage of, it reduces their ability to earn a return on their efforts and eliminates their incentive to continue working on other products.

If someone wanted to offer a competing line of engine paint products based on their own research of original Chrysler engine paint and experimentation with modern paint products, that's GREAT.  This would be free market enterprise at it's best.  If whomever did that research chose to publicly post the modern paint formulation, that's their right to do so - because it's the fruit of their own labor.  Apart from independent research and/or product development, I would consider it wrong to publicize the paint codes derived from a sprayout of Roger & Frank's engine paint. 

That's my    anyway...

Geno

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

When I read this last night, I was kindof surprised to see this in a way, but also not surprised.  Justin, I know you're just trying to help out others in the hobby, and that's admirable.  This board is all about helping others, and there's a track record (especially within this Aerocar community) of doing exactly that.  There's more that should be considered before taking the step you've at least offered to do. 

Frank Badalson and Roger Gibson did not invent the color HemiOrange, nor were they original suppliers of engine paint for Chrysler either "back in the day" or now - so I hope no one comes to the incorrect conclusion that I'm advocating they have an absolute right to be the sole source of engine paint.  However, they have taken the time (and there's probably a BUNCH of time involved) to research and experiment with modern paint products which duplicate the original colors and sheen more closely than anyone else.  By volunteering to reverse-engineer the paint code from their product, you would be short-cutting the research and experimentation time they've already invested.  IMHO, there's a moral obligation not to do such a thing.

We depend on guys like Frank and Roger to spend the time doing this very type of research and experimentation to broaden the line of available (and CORRECT) reproduction parts for these cars.  When their efforts are taken advantage of, it reduces their ability to earn a return on their efforts and eliminates their incentive to continue working on other products.

If someone wanted to offer a competing line of engine paint products based on their own research of original Chrysler engine paint and experimentation with modern paint products, that's GREAT.  This would be free market enterprise at it's best.  If whomever did that research chose to publicly post the modern paint formulation, that's their right to do so - because it's the fruit of their own labor.  Apart from independent research and/or product development, I would consider it wrong to publicize the paint codes derived from a sprayout of Roger & Frank's engine paint. 

That's my    anyway...

Geno

This is totally understandable but still does not address the issue for those of us who live across the border. Any recommendations for those who want the correct color on their cars?

Cheers,

James

[hemigeno]

Jim/maxwellwedge lives near Toronto, and I don't think he has had any issues getting paint.  Maybe he can shed some additional light on that end of the problem you're having?

[hotrod98]

PPG already has the formulas.
You just have to know where to look. Before he retired, our local PPG rep gave me two of the three engine formulas. I think that one of them is still written on the wall of the body shop at the dealership where I worked. He offered the third one, but I didin't need it. It may not be in their new database, but it certainly was in the old one. Find a PPG dealer that has a mopar guy working there and you will have the formula. On top of it all, PPG phased out one of the best musclecar guys that they had working for them last year.
Be warned that flattener slowly absorbs into the resin and will eventually not have any affect at all on gloss. Old cans of spray paint will not give you the correct gloss. I used to keep cans of the wheel and wheel center colors mixed up with the correct flattener and then noticed that a year later they were too glossy when sprayed. Now I add the flattener as I mix for each job.

Send me an original un faded part and I'll create a PPG formula for you without infringing on someone else's rights, right down to the correct gloss.
BTW, the formulas that I created several years ago were done in Sherwin-Williams since that was the line of paint that I sold.

This is the very reason that I stopped making new wingcar parts. I was told that I wad stepping on other supplier's toes and that it was not appreciated. Never mind that my parts were half of the price of theirs and were copied from original parts and not from their repro parts. I was working with a local shop on the tooling for the wing washers and trunk closeouts when something was said that led me to say to hell with it.

If you haven't noticed, you can ruffle the feathers of a "real wingcar" owner quite easily. They're starting to remind me of Corvette owners.  

[Bob]

http://www.mymopar.com/enginecolors.htm

[moparstuart]

PPG already has the formulas.
You just have to know where to look. Before he retired, our local PPG rep gave me two of the three engine formulas. I think that one of them is still written on the wall of the body shop at the dealership where I worked. He offered the third one, but I didin't need it. It may not be in their new database, but it certainly was in the old one. Find a PPG dealer that has a mopar guy working there and you will have the formula. On top of it all, PPG phased out one of the best musclecar guys that they had working for them last year.
Be warned that flattener slowly absorbs into the resin and will eventually not have any affect at all on gloss. Old cans of spray paint will not give you the correct gloss. I used to keep cans of the wheel and wheel center colors mixed up with the correct flattener and then noticed that a year later they were too glossy when sprayed. Now I add the flattener as I mix for each job.

Send me an original un faded part and I'll create a PPG formula for you without infringing on someone else's rights, right down to the correct gloss.
BTW, the formulas that I created several years ago were done in Sherwin-Williams since that was the line of paint that I sold.

This is the very reason that I stopped making new wingcar parts. I was told that I wad stepping on other supplier's toes and that it was not appreciated. Never mind that my parts were half of the price of theirs and were copied from original parts and not from their repro parts. I was working with a local shop on the tooling for the wing washers and trunk closeouts when something was said that led me to say to hell with it.

If you haven't noticed, you can ruffle the feathers of a "real wingcar" owner quite easily. They're starting to remind me of Corvette owners.  

     keep making your parts larry we do appreciate you

[hemigeno]

This is the very reason that I stopped making new wingcar parts. I was told that I wad stepping on other supplier's toes and that it was not appreciated. Never mind that my parts were half of the price of theirs and were copied from original parts and not from their repro parts. I was working with a local shop on the tooling for the wing washers and trunk closeouts when something was said that led me to say to hell with it.

If you haven't noticed, you can ruffle the feathers of a "real wingcar" owner quite easily. They're starting to remind me of Corvette owners.  

Larry,

I hope you don't think I was stepping on your toes with my comments - since I had your skills and abilities in mind when I wrote what I did.  If you're copying straight from an original, you have every much the same right to make your parts, post the formulas, etc. etc. as anyone else.  That's what the "other guys" had to do in the first place.  Further, if your parts are priced more competitively than the "other guys'" parts, you should end up with the majority of sales until demand exceeds your ability to supply the parts.  I'm a capitalist, if you can't tell...   

By my way of thinking there shouldn't be a select number of suppliers who are the only ones allowed to make repro parts.  Let the consumer decide which part to buy, and having choices usually isn't a bad thing.  My only issue was doing a sprayout of Roger's paint and then posting THAT formula. 

None of this has anything to do with being a real wing car owner.  Besides, the last thing I want is to be labelled as a "Corvette guy" 

[nascarxx29]

  Back when I heard of and knew of Roger Gibson he was doing top class Corvette restorations for local friends Way before he was doing mopars.So when this was mentioned

Besides, the last thing I want is to be labelled as a "Corvette guy" 

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Back when I heard of and knew of Roger Gibson he was doing top class Corvette restorations for local friends Way before he was doing mopars.So when this was mentioned

Besides, the last thing I want is to be labelled as a "Corvette guy" 

Looking at the list of wing cars in your signature, I would not label you as a "Corvette Guy" perhaps a wing car hoarder!    

[CornDogsCharger]

Wow, I never thought that comment would get this much attention.  After re-reading my earlier post I completely understand where everyone is coming from.  I guess what I really wanted to more than anything was to spray each product on one piece just to show how different they might be.  I agree that Roger and Frank do not OWN the color Hemi Orange but it still isn't right for me to post a formula of thiers that they researched. 

I was just hoping to find the easy way out and get a factory paint code, which I guess does not exist, and mix it myself with the product we use.  But I do appreciate the info from everyone that has already been down this road before when it comes to building a factory appearing original car... and it still be correct. 

Justin
"CornDog"