Engine Paint Code

[CornDogsCharger]

I read somewhere that the correct color for the Superbird's engine should be Street Hemi Orange.  But I have also heard that the rattle-can Street Hemi orange is not the correct shade.  Does anyone have a paint code for it?

Thanks
Justin
"CornDog"

[maxwellwedge]

Is the car a Hemi or a 440. 440's were never "Street Hemi Orange". They (and most 70-71 340's and various 383's) had their own orange. Save your time and trouble and buy the the paint from Roger Gibson/Frank Badalson - It is dead nuts and lays on great. It has the right semi/gloss/flatness too - if that makes any sense. 

[maxwellwedge]

Here is a '70 440-6 with their paint.

[maxwellwedge]

More Pics... Last pic is Street Hemi Orange on a ....Street Hemi - Notice the difference?

[CornDogsCharger]

That engine looks awesome!!!!  Yes, this is for the 440-6 that is going in the 'Bird I'm working on.  So the engine is supposed to be standard Hemi Orange?  Will the paint code still be the same as the exterior color code?  Any other time I would probably order the paint from Roger/Frank but Spies Hecker/Dupont is supplying all of the paint for this car.  

Justin
"CornDog"

[62 Max]

More Pics... Last pic is Street Hemi Orange on a ....Street Hemi - Notice the difference?

Are you sure the last one isn't Race Hemi orange?

[maxwellwedge]

That engine looks awesome!!!!  Yes, this is for the 440-6 that is going in the 'Bird I'm working on.  So the engine is supposed to be standard Hemi Orange?  Will the paint code still be the same as the exterior color code?  Any other time I would probably order the paint from Roger/Frank but Spies Hecker/Dupont is supplying all of the paint for this car.  

Justin
"CornDog"

No Justin - The Hemi's had their own orange. The 70 440 HP's (and other motors previously mentioned) had their own unique orange. A quart is more than you will need. Their paint is PPG and they already did all the research/matching from nice original cars to get the color and the shine right. There are flattening agents in their paint. It's $45.00 per pint. Also - The air Cleaner lid is its own special color as well - They have that paint too. The V2 exterior color is not the same.
Jim

[maxwellwedge]

More Pics... Last pic is Street Hemi Orange on a ....Street Hemi - Notice the difference?

Are you sure the last one isn't Race Hemi orange?

It's actually the original paint on a survivor GTX I have. Technically there were 2 Street Hemi Oranges - 66 to early 69, and late 69-71. Mine is an early 69. It actually does look a bit like Race Hemi orange in that pic - may be the camera flash. I'll post another pic under the first one to compare.

[pettybird]

But I have also heard that the rattle-can Street Hemi orange is not the correct shade. 

I can send you six different cans of street hemi orange, and none of them match anything. 


hey Maxwell what did the factory do about the paint on the spark plugs?  did they clean it off or did the spark plug wires and their current sufficiently cut into the paint?

[426HemiCharger]

The ambient lighting may affect the way a picture looks, I would go with anything by Dupli-Color or Mopar (rattlecan).

Dupli-Color is spot on!!!

[maxwellwedge]

The ambient lighting may affect the way a picture looks, I would go with anything by Dupli-Color or Mopar (rattlecan).

Dupli-Color is spot on!!!

I think that's ok if you want to touch up a water pump to get a car ready for an auction but if you are doing a complete top to bottom resto of anything  worth more than a slant six Valiant (sorry D. Walden !  ) you need to spend a relatively small amount of money on proper paint for something as important as one of the most important things in a muscle car - the engine. Out of the gun is the way to go for this project.

[maxwellwedge]

But I have also heard that the rattle-can Street Hemi orange is not the correct shade. 

I can send you six different cans of street hemi orange, and none of them match anything. 


hey Maxwell what did the factory do about the paint on the spark plugs?  did they clean it off or did the spark plug wires and their current sufficiently cut into the paint?

They had a masking tube over them at the plant...I have seen bits of paint on the hex area of original plugs. The ones in the pics are a set I use for painting.....keep meaning to try the factory way on the plugs. I always get everything else masked, blocked off, capped, assembled etc. and always forget about the plugs until it's too late.

[XS29J8]

More Pics... Last pic is Street Hemi Orange on a ....Street Hemi - Notice the difference?

I have never found a rattle can that is even close to matching the 68 HEMI Orange Engine paint. I had to touch up some areas on my engine and the paint from Dave Ferro Totally Auto was close. I would give Roger Gibson and Frank B. a shot as they are the prominent voices on HEMI Restoration in the Hobby!

I see the exhaust tubes are not painted on your original HEMI Maxwellwedge, mine were removed and plated off early in life but I don't remember if they were painted. All the asbestos sheathing is painted and the ground cables front and rear on my 68............

Steve

[hotrod98]

Back when I owned a couple of Paintmaster automotive paint stores, I created seven different versions of hemi orange. Three versions of engine color all with 10% flattener, one accurate exterior color with the metallic in base/clear and single stage urethane and one exterior color without the metallic in base/clear and single stage urethane. I left the formulas with the store when I sold it and they almost immediately threw my entire formula library away. Idiots.
A couple of years ago, I created new formulas for the regular non-hemi hemi orange engine paint and the base/clear version of exterior hemi orange without the metallic. In my opinion, the non metallic exterior color is much cleaner and more vibrant than the metallic version. The metallic makes the color milky.
Does any of this make sense?   

[BigBlockSam]

Save your time and trouble and buy the the paint from Roger Gibson/Frank Badalson -

do you have a link or a # for Roger Gibson . i'm rebuilding a 69  sixpack motor .

did you also paint the exhaust manifolds orange?  was that how the factory did it ? thanks

[maxwellwedge]

More Pics... Last pic is Street Hemi Orange on a ....Street Hemi - Notice the difference?

I see the exhaust tubes are not painted on your original HEMI Maxwellwedge, mine were removed and plated off early in life but I don't remember if they were painted. All the asbestos sheathing is painted and the ground cables front and rear on my 68............

Steve

Actually - The one that went to the the bolted flange on the manifold was painted - just that the paint was 75% gone. The other tube from the intake to the nipple on the the H-Pipe is not painted...It was put on after the engine was painted. The asbestos on the dipstick tube and off the exhaust manifold is painted (but mostly gone now) and the little little breather tube off the exhaust manifold still shows a lot of paint.

[maxwellwedge]

Save your time and trouble and buy the the paint from Roger Gibson/Frank Badalson -

do you have a link or a # for Roger Gibson . i'm rebuilding a 69  sixpack motor .

did you also paint the exhaust manifolds orange?  was that how the factory did it ? thanks

rogergibsonautorestoraton.com Download his catalog - they have a lot of stuff for 69-1/2's.    Frank -  804-275-2155

heres a link to my six-pack Bee   http://www.moparaction.com/Article/Six-Pack/Six-Pack.html


The factory painted the exhaust manifolds on pretty well everything including Hemi's and 440's. I always paint them. Nothing smells better than paint burning off the manifolds in the morning...

[426HemiCharger]

Well I would get rattle can high Heat primer and do the whole engine in it then order V2 (Hemi Orange) body paint then spray it on with an HVLP gun, then shoot it with clear, wet sand it, and clear it again.  That's how I would go about painting an engine.  Please no or anthing like that. Thank you.

[Troy]

Well I would get rattle can high Heat primer and do the whole engine in it then order V2 (Hemi Orange) body paint then spray it on with an HVLP gun, then shoot it with clear, wet sand it, and clear it again.  That's how I would go about painting an engine.  Please no or anthing like that. Thank you.

Suggestion: maybe you should buy a car first. Metallic paint and clear coat on an engine isn't going to be anywhere close to the "correct" stock look. Have you been paying attention to the rest of this car's restoration? This is not a situation where you want to deviate (too far) from the factory process.

Troy

[maxwellwedge]

 

[BigBlockSam]

he factory painted the exhaust manifolds on pretty well everything including Hemi's and 440's. I always paint them. Nothing smells better than paint burning off the manifolds in the morning... icon_smile_big

thank you for the contact info

wow! your bee is nuts .what an outstanding car.  i like that idea of painting the exhaust manifolds .that's cool.Rene

[maxwellwedge]

Here is how they look when the paint burns (mostly) off.

[b5blue]

Hey the fuel pump on there...it's not a Carter M4845 is it? 

[maxwellwedge]

I do believe it was...that car didn't have an original pump on it when I got it and I was fresh out of NOS pumps...I hate when that happens 

[b5blue]

My re-reorder one didn't come in yet but I thought they didn't have the "block" on the bottom...just a "nut" on the side of the tube. Are they different from 69 to 70 maybe that's what I see?

[maxwellwedge]

No need to jump - I will talk you down off that ledge 

Those are  plastic caps I put over the inlet and outlet for painting.

[CornDogsCharger]

Question..... we had the exhaust manifolds ceramic coated.  If we paint the manifolds like you did, will they still burn off in the same way yours did?

Justin
"CornDog"

[maxwellwedge]

I honestly don't know ... If I had to guess ... I would think paint wouldn't stick too well on a ceramic coating.

[b5blue]

OK Maxwellwedge I'm coming back off the edge....I was just so bummed out when I came home and there was no box sitting by my door yesterday...it's been 2 weeks since I drove my Charger...maybe I should get a puppy....

[CornDogsCharger]

On this car, I can't remember if the owner painted the whole manifold as you did or if he just painted the edges.  Which way is correct or are they both accepted as "correct"?  Eventually will your manifolds look like this or will they pretty much stay as they are pictured above.  This car has been restored for about 4 years now.  Sorry for all the questions.  I just want this car to be correct.

Thanks
Justin
"CornDog"

[maxwellwedge]

The manifolds were hit pretty good like in my pics. Chrysler painted the whole engine with them on so they were pretty well completely covered. Chevy's didn't blast them like Chrysler - they may have had some kind of mask. Chrysler just wailed away on them.

[426HemiCharger]

Hemi Orange is really Top Banana when it gets burned  So that's how they did it!!!

[472 R/T SE]

Any tricks to keep the exhaust manifolds orange?

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Here is a '70 440-6 with their paint.

Thank you,

This will come in handy when I start my Roadrunner!

[426HemiCharger]

I think you could mix a heat resistant enamel with the engine paint or apply a high heat primer.  If that doesn't do it I don't know what will, I'd like to know too.

[CornDogsCharger]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

[maxwellwedge]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

Well - It sort of kills all the work and research they did to perfect it - I got the formula years ago from them but I never used it - I just kept buying it from them. Selling their paint helps fund all of their other projects of developing new stuff for all of us that no one else makes for our cars correctly.

[mopar_nut_440_6]

I would be interested in the code. Not because I am cheap but because I am north of the border and cannot easily get this stuff across, plus shipping is a killer for me.

[CornDogsCharger]

Yeah, I know what you mean.  I may not... who knows.  Plus anyways.... without the "correct" shine, it still isn't right.  I'm anxious to see how different Gibson's product is when compared to the other products that are available.  I may spray a junk valve cover with each brand... just to see how different they are.  

I loved Gibson's website.... I had to hurry up and X out of it... I would start spending way too much $$ that I don't need to.  

Justin
"CornDog"

[Rolling_Thunder]

Any tricks to keep the exhaust manifolds orange?

dont start the engine

[hemigeno]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

When I read this last night, I was kindof surprised to see this in a way, but also not surprised.  Justin, I know you're just trying to help out others in the hobby, and that's admirable.  This board is all about helping others, and there's a track record (especially within this Aerocar community) of doing exactly that.  There's more that should be considered before taking the step you've at least offered to do. 

Frank Badalson and Roger Gibson did not invent the color HemiOrange, nor were they original suppliers of engine paint for Chrysler either "back in the day" or now - so I hope no one comes to the incorrect conclusion that I'm advocating they have an absolute right to be the sole source of engine paint.  However, they have taken the time (and there's probably a BUNCH of time involved) to research and experiment with modern paint products which duplicate the original colors and sheen more closely than anyone else.  By volunteering to reverse-engineer the paint code from their product, you would be short-cutting the research and experimentation time they've already invested.  IMHO, there's a moral obligation not to do such a thing.

We depend on guys like Frank and Roger to spend the time doing this very type of research and experimentation to broaden the line of available (and CORRECT) reproduction parts for these cars.  When their efforts are taken advantage of, it reduces their ability to earn a return on their efforts and eliminates their incentive to continue working on other products.

If someone wanted to offer a competing line of engine paint products based on their own research of original Chrysler engine paint and experimentation with modern paint products, that's GREAT.  This would be free market enterprise at it's best.  If whomever did that research chose to publicly post the modern paint formulation, that's their right to do so - because it's the fruit of their own labor.  Apart from independent research and/or product development, I would consider it wrong to publicize the paint codes derived from a sprayout of Roger & Frank's engine paint. 

That's my    anyway...

Geno

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Well, we called Roger Gibson today and ordered the correct paint for the air cleaner lid and for the block.  He was telling us about it and said that it was PPG paint.  What we'll do... we'll do a spray out on it and we'll get a code for everyone:)  How 'bout that? 

Justin
"CornDog"

When I read this last night, I was kindof surprised to see this in a way, but also not surprised.  Justin, I know you're just trying to help out others in the hobby, and that's admirable.  This board is all about helping others, and there's a track record (especially within this Aerocar community) of doing exactly that.  There's more that should be considered before taking the step you've at least offered to do. 

Frank Badalson and Roger Gibson did not invent the color HemiOrange, nor were they original suppliers of engine paint for Chrysler either "back in the day" or now - so I hope no one comes to the incorrect conclusion that I'm advocating they have an absolute right to be the sole source of engine paint.  However, they have taken the time (and there's probably a BUNCH of time involved) to research and experiment with modern paint products which duplicate the original colors and sheen more closely than anyone else.  By volunteering to reverse-engineer the paint code from their product, you would be short-cutting the research and experimentation time they've already invested.  IMHO, there's a moral obligation not to do such a thing.

We depend on guys like Frank and Roger to spend the time doing this very type of research and experimentation to broaden the line of available (and CORRECT) reproduction parts for these cars.  When their efforts are taken advantage of, it reduces their ability to earn a return on their efforts and eliminates their incentive to continue working on other products.

If someone wanted to offer a competing line of engine paint products based on their own research of original Chrysler engine paint and experimentation with modern paint products, that's GREAT.  This would be free market enterprise at it's best.  If whomever did that research chose to publicly post the modern paint formulation, that's their right to do so - because it's the fruit of their own labor.  Apart from independent research and/or product development, I would consider it wrong to publicize the paint codes derived from a sprayout of Roger & Frank's engine paint. 

That's my    anyway...

Geno

This is totally understandable but still does not address the issue for those of us who live across the border. Any recommendations for those who want the correct color on their cars?

Cheers,

James

[hemigeno]

Jim/maxwellwedge lives near Toronto, and I don't think he has had any issues getting paint.  Maybe he can shed some additional light on that end of the problem you're having?

[hotrod98]

PPG already has the formulas.
You just have to know where to look. Before he retired, our local PPG rep gave me two of the three engine formulas. I think that one of them is still written on the wall of the body shop at the dealership where I worked. He offered the third one, but I didin't need it. It may not be in their new database, but it certainly was in the old one. Find a PPG dealer that has a mopar guy working there and you will have the formula. On top of it all, PPG phased out one of the best musclecar guys that they had working for them last year.
Be warned that flattener slowly absorbs into the resin and will eventually not have any affect at all on gloss. Old cans of spray paint will not give you the correct gloss. I used to keep cans of the wheel and wheel center colors mixed up with the correct flattener and then noticed that a year later they were too glossy when sprayed. Now I add the flattener as I mix for each job.

Send me an original un faded part and I'll create a PPG formula for you without infringing on someone else's rights, right down to the correct gloss.
BTW, the formulas that I created several years ago were done in Sherwin-Williams since that was the line of paint that I sold.

This is the very reason that I stopped making new wingcar parts. I was told that I wad stepping on other supplier's toes and that it was not appreciated. Never mind that my parts were half of the price of theirs and were copied from original parts and not from their repro parts. I was working with a local shop on the tooling for the wing washers and trunk closeouts when something was said that led me to say to hell with it.

If you haven't noticed, you can ruffle the feathers of a "real wingcar" owner quite easily. They're starting to remind me of Corvette owners.  

[Bob]

http://www.mymopar.com/enginecolors.htm

[moparstuart]

PPG already has the formulas.
You just have to know where to look. Before he retired, our local PPG rep gave me two of the three engine formulas. I think that one of them is still written on the wall of the body shop at the dealership where I worked. He offered the third one, but I didin't need it. It may not be in their new database, but it certainly was in the old one. Find a PPG dealer that has a mopar guy working there and you will have the formula. On top of it all, PPG phased out one of the best musclecar guys that they had working for them last year.
Be warned that flattener slowly absorbs into the resin and will eventually not have any affect at all on gloss. Old cans of spray paint will not give you the correct gloss. I used to keep cans of the wheel and wheel center colors mixed up with the correct flattener and then noticed that a year later they were too glossy when sprayed. Now I add the flattener as I mix for each job.

Send me an original un faded part and I'll create a PPG formula for you without infringing on someone else's rights, right down to the correct gloss.
BTW, the formulas that I created several years ago were done in Sherwin-Williams since that was the line of paint that I sold.

This is the very reason that I stopped making new wingcar parts. I was told that I wad stepping on other supplier's toes and that it was not appreciated. Never mind that my parts were half of the price of theirs and were copied from original parts and not from their repro parts. I was working with a local shop on the tooling for the wing washers and trunk closeouts when something was said that led me to say to hell with it.

If you haven't noticed, you can ruffle the feathers of a "real wingcar" owner quite easily. They're starting to remind me of Corvette owners.  

     keep making your parts larry we do appreciate you

[hemigeno]

This is the very reason that I stopped making new wingcar parts. I was told that I wad stepping on other supplier's toes and that it was not appreciated. Never mind that my parts were half of the price of theirs and were copied from original parts and not from their repro parts. I was working with a local shop on the tooling for the wing washers and trunk closeouts when something was said that led me to say to hell with it.

If you haven't noticed, you can ruffle the feathers of a "real wingcar" owner quite easily. They're starting to remind me of Corvette owners.  

Larry,

I hope you don't think I was stepping on your toes with my comments - since I had your skills and abilities in mind when I wrote what I did.  If you're copying straight from an original, you have every much the same right to make your parts, post the formulas, etc. etc. as anyone else.  That's what the "other guys" had to do in the first place.  Further, if your parts are priced more competitively than the "other guys'" parts, you should end up with the majority of sales until demand exceeds your ability to supply the parts.  I'm a capitalist, if you can't tell...   

By my way of thinking there shouldn't be a select number of suppliers who are the only ones allowed to make repro parts.  Let the consumer decide which part to buy, and having choices usually isn't a bad thing.  My only issue was doing a sprayout of Roger's paint and then posting THAT formula. 

None of this has anything to do with being a real wing car owner.  Besides, the last thing I want is to be labelled as a "Corvette guy" 

[nascarxx29]

  Back when I heard of and knew of Roger Gibson he was doing top class Corvette restorations for local friends Way before he was doing mopars.So when this was mentioned

Besides, the last thing I want is to be labelled as a "Corvette guy" 

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Back when I heard of and knew of Roger Gibson he was doing top class Corvette restorations for local friends Way before he was doing mopars.So when this was mentioned

Besides, the last thing I want is to be labelled as a "Corvette guy" 

Looking at the list of wing cars in your signature, I would not label you as a "Corvette Guy" perhaps a wing car hoarder!    

[CornDogsCharger]

Wow, I never thought that comment would get this much attention.  After re-reading my earlier post I completely understand where everyone is coming from.  I guess what I really wanted to more than anything was to spray each product on one piece just to show how different they might be.  I agree that Roger and Frank do not OWN the color Hemi Orange but it still isn't right for me to post a formula of thiers that they researched. 

I was just hoping to find the easy way out and get a factory paint code, which I guess does not exist, and mix it myself with the product we use.  But I do appreciate the info from everyone that has already been down this road before when it comes to building a factory appearing original car... and it still be correct. 

Justin
"CornDog"