Mopar performance oil pickup P5007848 won't fit my 400 block

[WH23G3G]

I got the new oil pickup from my local Dodge dealer for only $17 but it doesn't fit in my 76 400 block. It said in the newest Mopar Performance catalog it was a 3/8" pickup tube for the 4-Quart center sump pan they offered. Now I'm looking through my old 06 Performance catalog at home and it says that same pickup I ordered is for a 6 quart center sump pan offered in Mopar Performance catalog. I thought the pickup thread size was all the same. This one will not fit. It measured a little over .60 inches on the mic I used. I was so frustrated I just covered my engine back up without measure the thread diameter in the block. Now I'm stuck with this pickup that I can't use because they said no returns eventhough it was a catalog error. It said stock pickups measure 3/8" while race only measure 1/2" and will have to be resized to use. So where should I get a new pickup tube from? Is Melling ok to use? Is there different size diameters in different years? I don't have the old one anymore to match. 

[firefighter3931]

It sounds like the pickup was packaged incorrectly. That pn is for 3/8 pickup tube....not 1/2 inch. You ordered the right part....MP screwed up when they boxed it. 

The dealer should accept the return and exchange it for the correct part. 


Ron

[WH23G3G]

The guy at the Chrysler dealer said the oil pickup I got from them was right. The 1/2" was the threads but a pipe thread which he said was different than SAE bolt threads. So I verified it with a 1/2" pipe cap  and it definitely is. But that oil pickup I got with the 1/2" pipe thread would not fit in my block so what else could it be? I thought the one I got was the stock pickup.

[firefighter3931]

The guy at the Chrysler dealer said the oil pickup I got from them was right. The 1/2" was the threads but a pipe thread which he said was different than SAE bolt threads. So I verified it with a 1/2" pipe cap  and it definitely is. But that oil pickup I got with the 1/2" pipe thread would not fit in my block so what else could it be? I thought the one I got was the stock pickup.

It's pretty simple....the pickup does not fit the block, period. Bring him the block and pickup to show him if he doesn't believe you. 

Bottom line...it was packaged incorrectly. Not an uncommon problem with Mopar Performance. 



Ron

[WH23G3G]

The oil pickup was 3/8" pipe thread. I checked it with a plug in my block and an adapter on the oil pump screen. They were the same. Just in case I ordered the 63S-4 from Melling. However, I don't know if I'm putting it in wrong of it's suppose to be hard but I just broke both the Mopar Performance one and the Melling pump screen. Is it suppose to screw in nice and easy all the way to the end? I thought I put it in right initially because it was screwing in easy. It began to tighten towards the end so I didn't know if it was suppose to do that. I took it out and the threads were all crossthreaded. I checked the block and the threads in the block are perfect and totally straight. I would assume it would tear up the pipe before the threads in the block anyway. I tried the 3/8" pipe plug I had to see if it goes in straight in the block and it did. So I'm thinking I just cross threaded the screen. If so it's hard to get in straight because I did it to two of them. I guess I'll have to buy another one but I'll let someone else screw it in. So is it suppose to go all the way down until there are no threads visible? Is it suppose to require any effort or is suppose to go in easy all the way?

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Pipe thread is tapered and will get more difficult to screw in as it goes further into the block. You need to be very careful to keep the thread square to the block on installation. Good luck with the next one.

[WH23G3G]

Is the pipe going to be threaded all the way down until no more threads are visible? Should I be checking clearance with the windage tray and oil pan with gaskets already applied?

[firefighter3931]

Ok, your initial post made it sound like the pickup wouldn't thread at all into the engine block. Now you say it starts but doesn't bottom out and crossthreads.

From what you're describing the part you recieved was indeed correct, just assembly error. As mentioned above, the pipe thread becomes more difficult to tighten the further the tube goes into the hole....perfectly normal. The trick is keeping it square to avoid cross threading. On all of the engine's i've assembled there has allways been some threads visible when the pickup is properly installed. I will recommend you use some anti-sieze on the threads to keep it from gaulling up. When properly installed the pickup will be very close to the bottom of the pan....no more than 1/4 in clearance.


Ron

[mopar_nut_440_6]

The pickup will go as far as you can get it until it is tight and in the correct position in the pan. Because you still see threads does not mean that it needs to be screweded in more. Bear in mind if you only have a few threads in then that may not be enough. Definitely check clearance with the pan as you do not want hem touching but this will likely not be the case but it takes no effort to screw the pickup in and fit the pan. Test it as you go. It has been a long time since I built an engine and maybe Ron can pipe in and set you straight on this.

[WH23G3G]

I also want to make sure I've got the right pan. The pan I have has the big 3 number casting number 971 on the outside. The full length part number also cast into is no longer readable because it's distorted. The pan is perfect just how it should be. The part number in the 73 parts catalog states the correct oil pan part number is 3614970. I believe I remember asking about the 971 on the pan before and someone said Chrysler put the casting number on the oil pan 1 number higher than the part number. Is the 971 casting oil pan correct for the 73 400?

[firefighter3931]

Is the 971 casting oil pan correct for the 73 400?

Yes, the 971 is correct for your car. It is also a highly desirable pan because it holds 5 qts as opposed to 4 qts for all other pans except the 6pk/hemi oilpans.


Ron

[WH23G3G]

I ordered another oil pickup screen from Mopar and will try again Monday. Just to be sure I'm going to have my friend who is a veteran mechanic try to install it just to make sure I won't mess it up again. I'm already out $60 on two pickup screens I messed up. Just as reference does anyone have a shot of how the pickup screen should be oriented with the windage tray?

[WH23G3G]

I got another oil pump pickup from Mopar Performance Saturday and just tried to install again. My friend isn't able to come help install it. I've already started to bend it again right where the threads end. I triple checked it to make sure it was going in straight and it started out nice and easy. I even put some oil on the threads to help. It goes about 5 threads down on the screen and then it gets so hard to turn it that you can't turn by hand anymore. It was still touching the bottom of the oil pan way too much. The pan was just hanging over the screen. I remember the old screen I took out was just like this one. This Mopar Performance screen was also identical to the 63S-4 screen from Melling which is OEM replacement. Now I'm not sure it will be ok to even use this new screen I just got because it's already bent just by hand turning because it got so tight. There isn't anything visibly wrong with the threads so it can't be that. Is this suppose to be that hard to get in right? I was only able to get it to go down only like 5 threads and there was still a lot left.

[WH23G3G]

Is this how the oil pump screen should look on this 73 400? I remember taking my old out and I think it did look like this. But this thing has got to be too long, as soon as it gets tight and is centered under the middle of the pan its still too high for the pan to fit over it. Even with the windage tray and gaskets on it's still too tall for the pan to fit over. As you can see at the top of the threads it started to bend the pipe again. That was just by hand pressure because I thought you had to keep turning but you can't turn anymore by hand. This is the 3rd screen I've trashed and now I'm down $70. It's embarassing and frustrating to ask about this because I don't think it should be that hard. Is there a short and long pickup?

[john108]

You might look into getting a male NPT pipe thread tap and chase the threads in the block.  they might need to be cleaned up a bit.

[WH23G3G]

I was going to do that with the threads but I actually cannot find a 3/8 pipe tap anywhere around where I live. I went to the Home Depot and the guy gave me a pipe cleaning brush. I didn't even say anything to him, I just walked away. He had no clue what I was talking about. Lowes and Ace hardware don't have that size die either. Even the parts stores. I may have to take the assembled block back to the machine and get charged I don't know how much to have the guy install the pickup screen for me if I can't figure it out.

[Tilar]

I cant imagine lowes or ace not having that. Maybe you can rent one at a rental store.

Really, I can't imagine the machine shop charging you much at all to install that pickup tube unless there really is a problem with the block.

[WH23G3G]

Check this out. This is one of the 3 damaged screens I now own. This one I threaded in nice and straight and it goes all the way down except like 3 or 4 threads. But the end of the threaded pipe isn't bent like the other two I have. I just got mad and threw it and it tore up the screen part beyond repair. That to me looks like it should be correct with just 4 threads showing. This is the spot where it couldn't be turned by hand anymore and the screen ends up right in the middle under the crank and clears the windage tray just like it should. But the oil pan is still like inches away from the block just hanging on the screen. That's even with the tray and gaskets on. I thought maybe the pan was not totally flat so I dinged it out on the bottom but even if it was totally flat it would still be too far away. I have another oil pan from like a 66 383 that looks the same but definitely holds more than this 971 pan and it doesn't have baffles. I installed it but I still had to turn the screen down. Either the screen is too long or the pan is not right. I took pictures of the other pan installed and the orientation of how the screen looks as of now. But I don't know how to post 3 pictures. Should I try an NOS pickup screen or a 72 pickup screen. The 73 400 engine illustration shows a different oil pickup than mine. It's more straight than curved.

[WH23G3G]

I talked to Mopar Performance Tech Line and Year One today and they told me that MP pickup screen would not work with this 971 pan. The pickup tube is for a 5qt pan. According to Year One this pan is correct for a 73 B-body and holds 4qts which looks reasonable. Then I called Milodon and they have a pickup tube they sell for their OEM replacement oil pan that is also a 4qt pan. They said their pickup should work with this pan. So I will try that out. So if that's the case the MP pickup doesn't work and the Melling 63S-4 doesn't work. I remember I took off a 971 pan when I got the car and I tried an aftermarket oil pan  but it wouldn't clear because of the suspension change starting on the 73s. So I have to use this 971 pan. I measured this 971 pan and it measured 5.25 at the center which is the same as the OEM replacement Milodon pan which uses their 4qt pickup screen. So I'll see what happens.

[firefighter3931]

The 971 pan is definately a 5qt oilpan....i used to own one. You need to trust me on this 

Ok, i did some digging around and found you a part number....straight from my contact at Mopar Performance. The correct 3/8in pickup for the 971 pan is : P5007848

Yes, you need that pan for the later style k-frame...nothing else is a bolt-on part unless you modify the k-member.



Ron

[WH23G3G]

Well I've gone through two Mopar 5007848's and one Melling 63S-4. The 18660 Milodon pickup screen says it is for the OEM 4qt pan which Milodon says should measure 5.25 at it's deepest point. I measured this original 971 pan I have and it was to the mark 5.25 inches deep. So I'm going to give the Milodon screen a shot since it's the same price. Maybe the Mopar ones are intended to be correct but are off. I'm sure everyone here knows more about the 971 pan than I do. I just remember that when I got the car it had a 971 pan on it and the screen seemed a lot smaller than these I've been getting. Certainly there aren't many shops or parts people in my area that know Mopar.  Is there a way I can check it's capacity? I need to flush out the engine anyway. Can't I bolt the pan on without a screen and pour in 5 qts and see where the dipstick reads? It is still on the engine stand obviously.

[firefighter3931]

It's not uncommon to have to bend the pickup to clear the oilpan....that is certainly an acceptable option. 

If it is just off a little then simply bend it to fit. 



Ron

[WH23G3G]

Ok I now got a Milodon 18660 oil pump pickup that says it will work with the stock pan or Mildon's OEM replacement pan. I can already tell this one should work unlike the Mopar Performance and Melling pikcups. I've only screwed it in until it gets tight and it's pretty much touching the bottom of the pan. I just need to turn it a turn or two more so it won't be totally touching the pan. Now this is my first engine rebuild so my first time replacing a screw in pickup. Even though it screws in straight and it's pretty close to fitting right I have to turn it more to adjust it. But I won't be able to turn it by hand. Should it get this tight? Should it get so tight you have to use something to tighten it? What do I use to finish adjusting it? Just a pipe wrench?

[firefighter3931]

Ok I now got a Milodon 18660 oil pump pickup that says it will work with the stock pan or Mildon's OEM replacement pan. I can already tell this one should work unlike the Mopar Performance and Melling pikcups. I've only screwed it in until it gets tight and it's pretty much touching the bottom of the pan. I just need to turn it a turn or two more so it won't be totally touching the pan. Now this is my first engine rebuild so my first time replacing a screw in pickup. Even though it screws in straight and it's pretty close to fitting right I have to turn it more to adjust it. But I won't be able to turn it by hand. Should it get this tight? Should it get so tight you have to use something to tighten it? What do I use to finish adjusting it? Just a pipe wrench?

Make sure you lube the threads and if need be use a pipe wrench down low...close to the pickup boss where it threads into the block. Work slowly and be careful...make sure the pipe hasn't bottomed out while trying to finish the installation.


Ron

[WH23G3G]

Some mechanics I've asked around at shops tell me to put on some teflon tape or threadlocker because I don't want air to be getting in there. Should I put teflon or the weakest threadlocker like the blue? When I do get the oil pickup in where the pan, gaskets, and windage tray will fit without hanging up is that the right spacing? I mean how do I know if it's too far away from the pan or too close even if the pan will go on.

[WH23G3G]

Ok update. I think I may have correctly installed the oil pump screen. I cleaned the threads in the block one more time just to be sure. I lubed the pump screen threads and screwed it in straight and then when it go so tight I used channel lock pliers (not vise grips) to finish turning it. It marred up the finish and put some scratches in the pipe but no damage. I guess that would happen no matter what kind of pliers you use. After I got it turned two more times after it started to get tight it looked perfectly straight in in the correct position. I tested the windage tray, gasket, and the oil pan. It seems like it will work. It didn't hang on the pan or cause a gap. It let me bolt up the oil pan. I don't think there can be anymore adjustment on the screen because I'm afraid if it gets turned another complete back around into position the pipe will either bend or break. My big concern now is should I remove it. I'm following Don Taylor's Rebuilding the Big Block Mopar along with the factory 73 chassis manual and several other books. None of them suggest to put any kind of teflon or threadlocker on the threads of the pipe screen. I don't remember seeing any on my old one when I took it out. Even with the vibration of the motor I don't think this screen will be able to loosen up. Because I know if I turn it again at the base with some pliers it will bend it or break the pipe. Do I need to remove it and add any kind of sealant to the threads? My biggest fear is having oil pressure problems if I put it in wrong. One mechanic says you don't want the screen to be sucking air. So how do I know if the screen is just touching the bottom of the pan or is just above the bottom of the pan? I can't really see it and I can't really tell by feeling the pan. I know the pan goes on without hanging up. One machine shop guy said even if it was touching the bottom of the pan it should still get oil. So how do you check to make sure there is enough clearance between the bottom of the screen and the bottom of the pan? If you can't see into it. I tried looking through the oil plug hole but I can't get a good beam of light down there.

[firefighter3931]

You're good to go...don't remove the pickup ! If the pan clears there are no worries. You could check clearance by puttin a thin piece of wood on the pickup and see if the pan still installs flush. In my opinion you have enough clearance allready if the screen is not causing the pan to rise off the block. 



Ron

[WH23G3G]

I believe the screen is lightly touching the bottom of the pan. One of the engine rebuild manuals says the screen should lightly touch the bottom of the pan but not cause it to hang up. I can put the gaskets and the windage tray on and bolt it up to specs but I don't know if it will be totally touching the bottom of the pan flat or just lightly touching it. Do I need to put some teflon thread sealant on the threads? I removed the pump screen to clean the oil holes as best I could to go out any foreign material that may have got in there from the previous screens I messed up.

[firefighter3931]

It probably wouldn't hurt to clean up the threads if you suspect there is any foreign material in the pickup boss. If it's that tight to thread in you don't need any sealant. If you're concerned about pan clearance, simply bend the tube up 1/4in and call it good. 


Ron

[WH23G3G]

I think with the gaskets, RTV, and windage tray all installed it should just be above the bottom of the pan so I am going to go with the way it is. I dumped a quart of oil through the pickup tube hole until it came out clear. Now it's onto the rear main seal and then I'll seal up the bottom