318 vs Big Block

[AKHeilman]

Hey guys, hope you can help me. I have a 71 Charger SE with a 318/904. Can you talk about the pros and cons of upgrading to a BB/727? How much am I going to spend to get very good HP from the 318 as compared to getting equal horses or more from a big block? How is mounting the new engine & trans in the old mounts gonna work out? Can I reuse the stock AC parts? I found a stock 400/727 on CL for $1000 for both. I want a daily driver or at least every weekend driver. I have a steady income with only about $800 on me now, and I have to fix up the interior and do some frame rail and floor pan fabricating. I want to keep the car from the time with some new modern stuff. Pretty sure it's numbers matching as is. I'm also pretty sure it's a 8 3/4 rear, unless you guys know that that wouldn't come with the E/T combo. Thanks for the help. Below is the VIN & what I can read from the half of the fender tag that isn't rusted away.

WP29G1A143###

################143256 359 030
                   L37
##Y     U                            H51
GY9     E5Y#     GY4     105     142903
E44     D31     WP29   G1A      143###

[green69rt]

Hey guys, hope you can help me. I have a 71 Charger SE with a 318/904. Can you talk about the pros and cons of upgrading to a BB/727? How much am I going to spend to get very good HP from the 318 as compared to getting equal horses or more from a big block? How is mounting the new engine & trans in the old mounts gonna work out? Can I reuse the stock AC parts? I found a stock 400/727 on CL for $1000 for both. I want a daily driver or at least every weekend driver. I have a steady income with only about $800 on me now, and I have to fix up the interior and do some frame rail and floor pan fabricating. I want to keep the car from the time with some new modern stuff. Pretty sure it's numbers matching as is. I'm also pretty sure it's a 8 3/4 rear, unless you guys know that that wouldn't come with the E/T combo. Thanks for the help. Below is the VIN & what I can read from the half of the fender tag that isn't rusted away.


WP29G1A143###

################143256 359 030
                   L37
##Y     U                            H51
GY9     E5Y#     GY4     105     142903
E44     D31     WP29   G1A      143###

This is just my take on this and will follow this thread to see what others have to say.  If you just want a few HP then the normal route is cam, carb, headers.  But you can really spend a lot of money real fast and not get much increase from your 318.  The only real way to get cheap HP is with cubic inches.  Try to find a good used 360 CID engine.  I think it will match up to the 904.  Add a four bbl carb if it doesn't have one, engine mounts, maybe some other fittings and you're there.  If you want more than that you're talking about more than $800.  (I really wonder if you can do what I said for the $800, it will take some scrounging?)

Going the 400 route would work also but I wonder about the adaption of it to your car. Does it come with such stuff as alternator, power steering, and other brackets, distributor.  You almost certainly will need carb linkage, shifter linkage, drive shaft mods, exhaust, etc,etc,etc.  Upgrading to a big block is not a direct swap.

What do others have to say?  This is the old hot rodders dilemma.  Max power, lowest cost.

[charger_cody]

Ok here is what i did, i have a 73 that had a 318 in it. I found an ooooolllllllllllllllllldddddddd rusted out POS 81 dodge van. took the 360 out of it and made it real nice. i drove the car with the 318 in it, and it didnt put out very many horses nor torque. So i say what the guy above me said. find a cheap 360 and put a new cam, 4-barrel, rocker arms and blah blah blah.

[Charger1973]

Id keep the 318 and just drive it.  Use the money for more important things like the frame repair you mentioned.  BTW the front clip on your car looks to be from a 73 or 74 Charger...  most likely a 74 due to the lack of cowl vents on the hood. 

[KS71owner]

I warmed up my 318 with the Edelbrock Performer RPM package (cam, intake, carb) and a new set of heads and headers. Put in an electronic ignition system too. Had my 904 rebuilt a few years ago and new mounts put in for everything. It doesn't make gobs of power but it does make for a great cruising car that can go long distances with no problem. For me it's a great solution until I can afford to either buy a new MP crate 360 or upgrade to a BB setup.

[1BAD68]

For a nice cruiser, you cant go wrong with the 318 or any of the small blocks for that matter. They can make some decent power and torque.
I went around and around with that decision for awhile and decided to stick money into my 318 mainly because it was original to my car and I like the way small block cars handle.
I ended up stroking it, .30 over and a 4" crank comes out to like a 392 or something.
It gets great mileage, revs quick, smokes the crap out of the tires and looks pretty much stock, I love it.
It was fairly economical too costing just under 2 grand with all new pistons, rods, crank, machining, gaskets and assembly.
I still run the stock heads that I ported, someday I nice set of heads on this thing and it will really wake up.

[Foreman72]

losts of threads about this my 318 brother... 2 the 318...i'd hold on to it...u can pull upwards of 400 hp out of it w/o breaking the bank...check out the following...good luck man

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,53264.0.html

[wayfast1500]

someone was telling me the only difference between a 318 and 360 is the heads?  I do know the 360 heads with some other bolt ons can get it in the 400hp range as stated above.

[TUFCAT]

Build a big block!!  - unless it was available with a 340 (then make a 340 clone). 

Take it from me..... 318 CARS GET NO RESPECT!! - even the original ones.

When I pop my hood, some people just walk away, and I hear them say "it's only a 318". 

[green69rt]

Id keep the 318 and just drive it.  Use the money for more important things like the frame repair you mentioned.  BTW the front clip on your car looks to be from a 73 or 74 Charger...  most likely a 74 due to the lack of cowl vents on the hood. 

All things considered, I have to agree with this guy.  Get the car in shape first then add the horses.  This also gives you time to look for the best deal on the bigger engine.  Good things come to those that wait.

[green69rt]

someone was telling me the only difference between a 318 and 360 is the heads?  I do know the 360 heads with some other bolt ons can get it in the 400hp range as stated above.

360 also has larger mains on the crank. 273-318-340-360 all have the same factory rod length.

There's a whole world out there on designing strokers but they are not cheap and you'r not going to get it done for $800.

[Mike DC]

 
horsepower < sheetmetal repair 

sheetmetal repair < frame repair

 

[Foreman72]

Build a big block!!  - unless it was available with a 340 (then make a 340 clone). 

Take it from me..... 318 CARS GET NO RESPECT, even the original ones.

When I pop my hood, some people just walk away, and I hear them say "it's only a 318".

that sucks man...nothing wrong with a 318...i don;t wanna just hop the wagon and go BB...thats not what its about

[mopar_nut_440_6]

I always say " There is no replacement for displacement."  Of course, new technology seems to be coming close!

You will spend more money trying to get a small block to pull like a big block. I had a 318 Charger once and built a mild 360 for it thinking this was the way to go. I ended up building a mild 440 for the same amount as the 360 cost and the difference was night and day. The Charger is also a heavy car and would benefit from the extra torque the big block will provide. This is just my opinion based on my personal experiences.

Cheers,

James

[TUFCAT]

I agree. With todays' engine technology and parts availability, its possible for someone to build a very good performing 318...and I'm not even talking about what a 360 can do!  You might even embarrass a lot of people.  Many still underestimate what can be done with good engine building skills.

I'll betcha firefighter3931 can build a 318 that runs like a 340!    I've been getting advice from him on my 383 build for the Coronet.

[69bronzeT5]

I'm gonna build a 318 that runs like a 340

[TUFCAT]

I'm gonna build a 318 that runs like a 340

.....then you better listen to Ron (firefighter)! 

[69bronzeT5]

Oh I will. For now it's getting a new intake and carb with the Hooker Comp. headers that are on it. Sometime it will get a rebuild.

[mikesbbody]

If the car drives then stick with the 318 and fix what needs to be fixed then go with the BB when you have the money. You say you can get a 400? they make great strokers...nothing wrong with a 318 but i personally prefer BB's

[Back N Black]

Build a big block!!  - unless it was available with a 340 (then make a 340 clone). 

Take it from me..... 318 CARS GET NO RESPECT, even the original ones.

When I pop my hood, some people just walk away, and I hear them say "it's only a 318". 

Hey Tuff, nice engine bay! Can we see more pics of your Coronet. I like 318's, The majority of guy at car shows don't mine a 318 or any small block, they appreciate the work and effort put in the cars. There are a few numbers guy that lurk at car shows that turn up their noses.

[AKHeilman]

Thanks for all the responses guys! I guess you're right about getting the frame ready first. The biggest problem is the LR frame rail that's basically not even there anymore. What is recommended for repairing (building from scratch) the rail? The guy who had it before me had done some welding on it, but there are drips and the patch doesn't extend near far enough to support the spring shackle. Should I remove what he has and start over? Should it be made from one piece bent to shape, three pieces welded at right angles, or two pieces in an "L" shape? How about the prefab pieces from Auto Rust Technicians? Tell me what you think.

[TUFCAT]

Hey Tuff, nice engine bay! Can we see more pics of your Coronet. I like 318's, The majority of guy at car shows don't mine a 318 or any small block, they appreciate the work and effort put in the cars. There are a few numbers guy that lurk at car shows that turn up their noses.

Thanks BNB....I could post lots of pics of my car - but its a Charger site so I try to resist.  On a 318 thread I figured a shot of a Coronet engine bay wouldn't be so inappropriate.  

Anyway ...here's another one (since you asked).

[Back N Black]

No sweat on posting Coronet pics, its a Mopar after all. Not like its a 4X4 deloran. love the color. 

[green69rt]

Thanks for all the responses guys! I guess you're right about getting the frame ready first. The biggest problem is the LR frame rail that's basically not even there anymore. What is recommended for repairing (building from scratch) the rail? The guy who had it before me had done some welding on it, but there are drips and the patch doesn't extend near far enough to support the spring shackle. Should I remove what he has and start over? Should it be made from one piece bent to shape, three pieces welded at right angles, or two pieces in an "L" shape? How about the prefab pieces from Auto Rust Technicians? Tell me what you think.

On replacing the frame, there's nothing like new metal.  From experience - these things seem to grow once started.  Just plan on replacing the rail and maybe the spring perch (just because it's hard to separate from the rail.  Then the trunk floor can be patched or replaced.  And don't be afraid of adding stiffeners to the body (torque boxes, and rail extensions, you can weld right?)  Also understand that this is not a 4 hour job, your car will be garage bound for a while.  Get some advice from friends or builders near you, most don't mind sharing their knowledge.  That's what hot rodding is about!!

[Nacho-RT74]

When I pop my hood, some people just walk away, and I hear them say "it's only a 318". 

why don't you say them if they pop theirs hoods and you say OOOH, IS A 4 CILINDER!!!! I have two of those linked in V shape

[charger_cody]

Oh I will. For now it's getting a new intake and carb with the Hooker Comp. headers that are on it. Sometime it will get a rebuild.

if your gonna buy hookers. please i mean please just buy the non coated ones and pay for the ceramic coat. youl save like $100

i bought my super comps non coated for like $460 from jegs and they went all the way down to like 160 

[whitehatspecial]

Build a big block!!  - unless it was available with a 340 (then make a 340 clone). 

Take it from me..... 318 CARS GET NO RESPECT!! - even the original ones.

When I pop my hood, some people just walk away, and I hear them say "it's only a 318". 

Screw what people say. Build it the way you want it. Morons who think a car has to be a big block to be cool are a$$holes.

[Beer]

Mine is a 318 with dress up items...

[myk]

Frame repairs first.  No point in having a big block if you're chassis can't take it.  And normally I'd agree with big-block-only-type people being a-holes, but if it's classic muscle what's the point if it ain't running with big cubes? 

[Khyron]

I yanked my 318 and ran my Charger with a massaged out 360 for awhile, cam, heads, intake, High Performance pistons...The Charger ran great! she never failed me, always started and was fun to drive...


BUT...


I got a bug in my butt and went with a 440... Holy sh*%^%! what a difference. The sound, feel, handling, power... nothing like it.


BUT


If you have all that other work to do, I agree with a majority... fix the car before worrying about a Big Block... when the frame and everything else is fixed, Big block that bitc*&%^%!!!!

[FLG]

Thanks for all the responses guys! I guess you're right about getting the frame ready first. The biggest problem is the LR frame rail that's basically not even there anymore. What is recommended for repairing (building from scratch) the rail? The guy who had it before me had done some welding on it, but there are drips and the patch doesn't extend near far enough to support the spring shackle. Should I remove what he has and start over? Should it be made from one piece bent to shape, three pieces welded at right angles, or two pieces in an "L" shape? How about the prefab pieces from Auto Rust Technicians? Tell me what you think.

I'll post up pics of my auto rust pieces today, they do great work there.

[CudaJimmy]

I'd just build a 360. You can use your transmission, k-frame, radiator, everything. And you CAN get respect with a 318 if you build it right. Having said that, there is no replacement for displacement. Unless you wanna spend some coin getting the rest of your car set up properly for a big block, just build the 360 and go have fun. 

[FLG]

Heres the auto rust rails

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,55006.msg611081.html#msg611081

[cowboy4x4n]

be different build the 318.  alot of guys bash the 318 but its a great motor if built right.  put compression, decent heads and cam and 400 hp is knocking on the door.  the motor has more cubes thatn ford or chevy's respected 302 and slidghtly less than a 327 chevy.  it has a better bore to stroke ratio than a chevy lt1.  yeah a big block is bad ass but my warmed over 318 is fun to drive and i get 21 mph on the freeway.  This is a car i enjoy driving, has power to embarass most cars, and I can afford the fuel.  ill take my cake and eat it too.

[MrSnicks]

Both my 71 Charger and my wife's 71 Charger came with 318's in them. I was able to get hers running after I bought it so that's what it's running. Mine was frozen solid, but was the original engine so I had it rebuilt. I'm not looking for huge HP, just a reliable cruiser and from what I've heard the 318's are practically bullet-proof.

Patrick

[TruckDriver]

One good advantage a small block has, it doesn't weight as much, so the car will handle better in most cases.

[chargd72]

4 year old thread.  I'm sure he's made up his mind by now....

[green69rt]

So what was the final answer???

[1974dodgecharger]

4 year old thread.  I'm sure he's made up his mind by now....

think he threw in the towel and just sold it.....

[Ghoste]

He hasn't even been back to the site in four years.

[Chargerguy74]

I didn't realize the age of the original post. I was just about to be a Debbie Downer. Ok, I'll still say it. I'm sorry but if you only have $800 on you and that's it, you better work on saving up enough cash to cover a few months expenses first. Once you have at least that to fall back on, then you can play. Unless I misread the post and he only had $800 allotted to the project for the time being.