Should I install Sub frame connectors in my 68 XS Track Pack car?

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Hello,

I have a 68 R/T 4 spd track pack car and am currently doing a rotisserie resto. Most of the metal is new with the exception of the roof and dutch panel.

I have a stroker built which may find its way into the car. I also have a D code 440 which I could do a mild build on and install and use the stroker in my Duster! The last car it was in had MP sub frame connectors and still managed to bend the front frame rails while running slicks. If the car would have had torque boxes this likely would not have happened.

I know that this car is now quite valuable and had not wanted to add connectors as I do not want to take away from the car. I figure I should be able to run the stroker without slicks as the tires will IMO give prior to any body tweaking.

I am torn as I love the power but do not want to take away from the factory car!

Cheers,

[tan top]

i would say yes , but would never sell mine    think some guys would look at it as decreasing the value of the car !  i'm not one of them though ,

i  put subframe connectors /  front  & rear torque boxes !  also rear shackle mounting reinforcement plates , same as a Hemi car  on mine  5 or 6 years ago

[mopar_nut_440_6]

i would say yes , but would never sell mine    think some guys would look at it as decreasing the value of the car !  i'm not one of them though ,

i  put subframe connectors /  front  & rear torque boxes !  also rear shackle mounting reinforcement plates , same as a Hemi car  on mine  5 or 6 years ago

Are they Autorust pieces?

[tan top]

i would say yes , but would never sell mine    think some guys would look at it as decreasing the value of the car !  i'm not one of them though ,

i  put subframe connectors /  front  & rear torque boxes !  also rear shackle mounting reinforcement plates , same as a Hemi car  on mine  5 or 6 years ago

Are they Autorust pieces?

yes they are ... but the rear plates for the shackle mounting i fabricated my self .
  fit really good  only minor triming & bending of the torque boxes to fit 

if you need to see any pictures of them fitted  seam sealed undersealed , painted  let me know 

[Ghoste]

I look at it this way,yes the car is valuable and connectors would clearly be a non stock addition.  However, you plan to install a stroker you have already started down the non stock path and if you use it hard, it will bend.  Not having slicks will only mean that it takes a little longer.  So, which will decrease the value of the car more, a sub frame connector that should have been a factory installed  piece (but my opinion digresses), or a twisted body?

[AutoRust]

I think you could install a set of weld in frame connectors that tie the front and rears together, not the ones that weld to the floor. In the future if your concerned about originality, you can cut them out and grind away all the welded materials that might remain.

[tan top]

i would say yes , but would never sell mine    think some guys would look at it as decreasing the value of the car !  i'm not one of them though ,

i  put subframe connectors /  front  & rear torque boxes !  also rear shackle mounting reinforcement plates , same as a Hemi car  on mine  5 or 6 years ago

[Blakcharger440]

I have a 70 Charger RT 4spd Track Pack and I have already installed a factory A/C system,4 wheel disc brakes,have subframe connectors that are going to get installed,Firm Feel torsion bars and Stage 3 steering box....oh and I am currently building a 512 Stroker for it. The car also has aftermarket wheels. The car was originally red with a black vinyl top but I have painted it black and left the vinyl top off.

My car was missing its numbers matching engine & trans and was just a rolling chassis with interior when I purchased it.

I am building the car the way I want to and I am having fun with it and its not even on the road yet! 

[firefighter3931]

Install the SF connectors....torn sheetmetal and cracked paint sucks. 



Ron

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Thanks for the responses. I was expecting  more from the "leave it stock" guys but did not receive any responses. I was doing bodywork on the car all day and made serious progress. At the same time I was contemplating this question.

I also have a 70 Duster I bought to put the stroker in but changed my direction on this a bit. The only drop in engine I have at the moment is the stroker. BY the time this car is ready I will likely still have the stroker on the stand.

My concern was taking away from the value of the car if I wanted to sell it. I have owned this car for 25 years with one sale and rebuy from a friend. I was also  looking forward to going to shows and winning some awards in the stock class. I also have always modified everything I have ever owned and driven from snowmobiles to computers.

This being said I think I will go with the USTools Sc's and the Autorust torque boxes. This I feel will meet both my needs. A stock or as stock look on the SC's and chassis rigidity. I can run what I want and be confident my doors will open and my body will not get bent. If I chose to sell many buyers may be happy these mods have been made, if not then they could pay me to fix the issue!

Thanks again for the responses and advice.

Cheers,

James

[AutoRust]

and the Autorust torque boxes.

Make sure to ask for the charger.com 10% discount !!

[defiance]

I agree entirely with your plan - if you want the performance while keeping it as stock/restored as possible, the XV Engineering or USTool sc's seem perfect - Since they conform to & weld to the floor pan, they end up looking much more like a stock piece when finished, IMO.  The auto rust tech torque boxes are not stock style either, but I don't know if the difference is noticeable.  Either way, those parts installed and painted to match the underbody and you'd only notice it wasn't stock if you were specifically looking for them.

The Auto rust sc's look great and are priced right - I just ordered a set of their sc's last week myself.  But I'm making no pretense of keeping mine stock...

[Mike DC]

 
If you had a survivor original body then I might be more leery about adding stuff.  (I might also say lay off the stroker motor & huge tires, too.)  But if the whole car has been re-skinned as part of the resto, then I say just do what you want to do with the subframes now.  You're already keeping the original body by technicality more than than in theory. 



A 1968 4spd 440 car technically is grounds for torque boxes just from the factory in some cases.  If you add those things while keeping a factory-correct appearance then I don't see why it would raise any huge objections. 


As for subframe connectors, I would add a set of weld-on connectors and just don't cut the floors or anything in the process.   Welding is a bigger step than bolt-ons, but it's a hell of a lot less destructive if you can cut/grind off the part later without having reconstruct any original metal. 

[mopar_nut_440_6]

 
If you had a survivor original body then I might be more leery about adding stuff.  (I might also say lay off the stroker motor & huge tires, too.)  But if the whole car has been re-skinned as part of the resto, then I say just do what you want to do with the subframes now.  You're already keeping the original body by technicality more than than in theory. 



A 1968 4spd 440 car technically is grounds for torque boxes just from the factory in some cases.  If you add those things while keeping a factory-correct appearance then I don't see why it would raise any huge objections. 


As for subframe connectors, I would add a set of weld-on connectors and just don't cut the floors or anything in the process.   Welding is a bigger step than bolt-ons, but it's a hell of a lot less destructive if you can cut/grind off the part later without having reconstruct any original metal. 

Thanks for the response. If i was going to remove the weld in connectors which weld to the floor I would be able to do it. Albeit, it would be a large amount of work. This has been a tough decision as I was going for the factory look. The connectors which weld to the floor will give me this look and provide me with a better product than came from the factory.

I guess I am now jumping off the "factory" band wagon and now my plans can change. I will injstall these pieces and then can look at upgrading my brakes and suspension. My plan is to have a "factory" appearing car with improved performance. As long as i keep in mind that if I was to sell the car I could install factory pieces quite easily.

Here is the pan as it looks today. I will post more pics once I have the new parts installed.

[dodgey68]

i would say yes , but would never sell mine    think some guys would look at it as decreasing the value of the car !  i'm not one of them though ,

i  put subframe connectors /  front  & rear torque boxes !  also rear shackle mounting reinforcement plates , same as a Hemi car  on mine  5 or 6 years ago

Are they Autorust pieces?

yes they are ... but the rear plates for the shackle mounting i fabricated my self .
  fit really good  only minor triming & bending of the torque boxes to fit 

if you need to see any pictures of them fitted  seam sealed undersealed , painted  let me know 

Yes may you please post a few pics as i would like to make my own as well , thank you

[Dans 68]

I like "original" cars, but unless you are going to have a trailer queen and have it judged in shows add the connectors. They will help keep your car together.

Dan

[mopar_nut_440_6]

I like "original" cars, but unless you are going to have a trailer queen and have it judged in shows add the connectors. They will help keep your car together.

Dan

I also like the original cars as well this is why this has been a difficult decision. I also keep looking at the stroker sitting on the stand thinking when can I use this. I also find that I am starting to get fanatical on everything factory correct. The issue I see now is I am going to spend so much time making everything "correct" and clean that once done I will not want to drive it. This is a concern. So in putting the connectors and torque boxes in it will pull me just far enough from factory to allow me to relax a bit and drive this car. This car was a blast to drive 25 years ago when I first bought it and I think it needs to be beat on again. If I do go with the stroker then my bases are covered. If I choose to put in a mild 440 then the SC's and torque boxes will add strength where it is needed and I will not need to worry if I end up at the strip and want to bolt slicks on.

[gasoline_24]

I have a set of front and rear torque boxes if you are interested.  I will knock 20% off of the new price.  These are new and I decided  not to install them.

[69bronzeT5]

James, install the subframe connectors and torque boxes. You won't regret it

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Ok, I just received my USCarTool SC's today. They look like they are going to be a pretty good fit.I have a couple of questions and was curious what others have done.

My floor pan is new and only has the black AMD finish on them. The connectors are bare steel. My concern is covering the metal so that it will not rust. This would be inside them and the covered portion of the new floor pan.

I can epoxy the floor pan and clean off paint where I weld the sc's on but this always causes paint to burn off or bubble and may make a mess. I do want to get decent coverage inside the connectors and the covered section of the floor pan. I have a couple ideas but was wondering what others have done. I will also be installing torque boxes and will need to cover these as well. My concern is once they are welded on it will be impossible to get any paint inside. Perhaps I am just being a worry wart!

Thank you,

[AutoRust]

Get some Eastwoods Weld thru Primer, and apply generously, very generously, then a little more. Thats what we do here in the shop. Its good stuff. I like to apply 4 or 5 good heavy coats.

[375instroke]

Anyone think of hiding the connectors inside the rockers?  What did the factory do to convertibles?  I'm thinking the biggest box that will fit in the hole.  Is box stronger than L shaped angle iron?  You can also weld it along it's length, which may make it stronger than the conventional way.  After it's installed, add more metal to strengthen the connection from the rockers to the frame segments.  Adding some box iron in the torsion crossmember looks easy.  I'm not sure about the best way to connect to the front leaf bracket.  I think being farther out from the center would add rigidity, too.

[1968Dodge]

I too am considering subframe connectors.. but now after reading this I may throw in torque boxes as well. Any recommendations for the best ones? Hotchkis SFs looked nice but seemed to be way too expensive.

I'm starting to split the metal where it angles into the door jamb from the quarter and I want to stop it before it gets bad... Any ideas without welding? Also.. when you install torque boxes in front of the shackles do they weld to the rocker? Am I going to be looking at burning the paint?

Thanks

[mopar_nut_440_6]

I received my sub frame connectors last Friday and installed them on Sunday. I received  my torque boxes a couple of days ago. Had today off work so I installed them today.

I did not expect either the connectors or boxes to require as much fitting as was required and was a bit surprised when I first tried to place them  . I almost changed my mind and was going to be leave the suspension stock  but decided to get to work and just do it. The sub frame connectors ended up taking 13 hours to get installed and welded in. This included prepping and painting the areas which would be covered once everything was installed. The rear torque boxes looked like there was no possible way they were going to fit  and I even double checked the part numbers in case I had accidentally received the incorrect ones. I also contacted Tan Top (Steve) to see if this was his experience when he installed them and he had a similar experience. He stated it was not too bad once you got to it. With a bit of trimming  and "persusion"  , I was able to get the front and rear boxes to fit. It was not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I was able to get them completed in 7 hours including grinding of the welds where I want to do a better finish.

I am very happy with the way they turned out and I happy I put in the time as the car definitely looks and feels more solid now. If I install the stroker I can do it with piece of mind!   

[OneofNoneRT]

Looks good ..I am putting the connectors in this weekend..from USCARTool as well.. The reason i picked theirs is they have drain holes and I have a undercoat gun with flexible tip that will reach inside after install and paint with undercoat.. Torque boxes next.. Has anyone commented about installing these SubConnectors with the car upside down? i mean that is not exactly "loaded" correctly.. Did you tack them first then rotate..?

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Looks good ..I am putting the connectors in this weekend..from USCARTool as well.. The reason i picked theirs is they have drain holes and I have a undercoat gun with flexible tip that will reach inside after install and paint with undercoat.. Torque boxes next.. Has anyone commented about installing these SubConnectors with the car upside down? i mean that is not exactly "loaded" correctly.. Did you tack them first then rotate..?

After a few hours per side of grinding and fitting I snugged them up on the rear so they had an interference fit and clamped the front. I then rotated the car horizontal and used a jack to snug them against the floor and tacked them. Once tacked I rotated the car on its side and finished the welding.

I will have to check into getting a flexible tip for my undercoating gun. Sounds like a good idea. I used a ton of weld thru primer prior to install but would not mind getting more into them as well as the rest of the rails. Where can a guy pick one up?

Good luck with them. They look great and with the torque boxes appear to be very tough. I also added a 3/4 inch tube for the emergency brake cable to run through rather than just holes. If you are considering doing this I would complete this prior to install if working underneath. I also added rear spring reinforcement plates made out of 1/8 plate at the rear of the spring just behind the shackles for extra strength as I will be running slicks on the car at some point and it will be leaving quite hard with a standard tranny.

Here is a link to the other upgrades.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,54980.msg623184.html#msg623184

I hope this helps. Be prepared to spend a lot of time fitting!

Cheers,

james

[OneofNoneRT]

Thanks, Gun came from EASTWOOD..