Mitch's 69 Charger restoration -sheet metal

[cdr]

on the lower rocker corner that is how they are from the factory  

let me know if you need some help.

charlie

[green69rt]

so it would be just cutting and rewelding back together?

Yeah, just cut along the line and make the cut about 1/8 or 3/16 wide.  Tap the edge of the quarter to push it back so the cut gets narrow and weld it back up.

[fy469rtse]

So its the quarter that's too far forward Mitch,
is there still room for the latch part or is the jam area closed up too much,
that bottom of door standard, nose of fenders will just have a bit of filler to smooth radius out,
? what about the droopy nose issue,

[green69rt]

So its the quarter that's too far forward Mitch,
is there still room for the latch part or is the jam area closed up too much,
that bottom of door standard, nose of fenders will just have a bit of filler to smooth radius out,
? what about the droopy nose issue,

Yeah the quarter was maybe 1/8" to 3/16" too far forward.  The rest of the latch pillar never moved because I didn't touch it, Just the quarter sheet metal.   So the latch and all the line-up for the windows etc. are all good.  And yes I figure it will take just a touch of filler to fix that nose or at least make it closer to my liking.


As for the droopy nose, I'm just looking now, letting things simmer in my head.   Like I said, the shop wanted to cut the whole front clip off and start with new metal, big bucks!!   I think I will go over to CDR' s house and take some measurements on his 68 and compare them to mine to see if that gives me a clue on how to go forward.  As soon as I finish with my door (see next reply for progress) I'm going to hang the fenders again and then we'll see.

[green69rt]

So I bit the bullet and started slicing up the new quarter metal.   

First pic shows the cut and the "tapping" result.  I'm really surprised!   I think the gap came out almost perfect,  I may even have a little room for adjustment!!

Second pic - pulled the tape and tacked the slice to hold it in position.

Third pic - 10,000 tacks later the slice is closed,  grinding tomorrow!!

This really went a lot faster and easier than I thought and certainly easier than trying to grind down the edge of the door ( which might raise all sorts of window alignment issues.)

[fy469rtse]

Looks good Mitch,
once that's ground down and a light layer of fill , you wont know that was an issue,
I wish when I was at this stage would I have modified the bottom corner of doors, I think I would have rounded them of to match sill and quarter, when you have finished this area, can you rehang fenders so we can see the issue of front, I'm assuming that its an issue at bottom fender bolts and gap to door to fender, unless you already have photos side on,
nose down or up ?

[green69rt]

Just a little droop on the nose end.  With the fenders on - the bottom back of the fenders overlap the bottom of the doors (both side equally.)  you can't raise the front of the fenders because the fender brackets go on top and underneath the radiator support,  so...   When I get to that point I'll post some more pics.

[fy469rtse]

that top edge of door to cowl , do the same Mitch,
mark it to clear and follow the shape, match the other side or use that as a guide for gap,  cut and weld, grind and finish off ,
that's the two major issues done,

[fy469rtse]

Do you still have your old fenders to try on Mitch,
I think that this may be an issue with AMD fenders, did all my work and got to paint stage and the AMD fender fitted up differently to original, I thought at the time because my old fender had taken a hit or two that was the issue,
the reason I am thinking is that like me you replaced fenders late in the piece and suddenly you have issues, I too had clearance issues with the bottom,
and its this that's making you think the nose is out,
also the way there pressed affects the top,
had some difficulty like in your photos to match bonnet, fenders too flat on top, but that's adjustable with a little effort

[green69rt]

Do you still have your old fenders to try on Mitch,
I think that this may be an issue with AMD fenders, did all my work and got to paint stage and the AMD fender fitted up differently to original, I thought at the time because my old fender had taken a hit or two that was the issue,
the reason I am thinking is that like me you replaced fenders late in the piece and suddenly you have issues, I too had clearance issues with the bottom,
and its this that's making you think the nose is out,
also the way there pressed affects the top,
had some difficulty like in your photos to match bonnet, fenders too flat on top, but that's adjustable with a little effort

Thanks for the info, I have one AMD fender and one OE fender.  I'll spend some time making the comparison.  Love this site, always someone willing to help (or to gripe about what you're screwing up.. )

[fy469rtse]

No have to disagree , your not screwing Mitch, don't know of many people on hear or in the real world of cars that would have gone to the extent that you have, I look at it as you have saved another one , and a bad one at the starting point, great work, have loved watching the development of your car,
but your right good people on here willing to help, they have been good to me so keeping with the attitude on here and being helpful when I can.
regarding your bonnet , have a look at you early photo's regarding the lining up of guard to bonnet edge.
not bowed, just adjustment

[fy469rtse]

That side now is going to have the best door gap on the planet, have you thought about slicing a little further down an correcting that door cnr now on that side you already have the quarter sliced , you could open that up a little and tap it to be more square to match door, either way is going to work ,
Keep at it Mitch great work
The front is not going to be as hard as you think , I repeat fantastic work, would have loved to have you as a neighbour when I was into mine, lots of areas on mine I wish I could do over ,
That's the trouble when you do the work, you know every fault or mistake
One of the biggest area's I would fix is that originally the doors hung out at the bottom, thus on factory sheet metal the tops of quarters matched doors, today you tend to gap these cars like the modern equivalent, by doing that tops not even,
every car I remember that was a factory ill that I wanted to correct and remembered after it was painted,

[mopar4don]

Great Job Mitch! Keep at it, you are testing the waters that I will be going through with my restoration, and I'm sure others as well!
Keep those "how to" pictures coming! 

[Generalkiwi]

Couldn't agree more with the guys here , Mitch you are dong a great job, im learning so much reading this thread and following your "how to" pics also, big respect also to the guys (fy469rtse and others) who so kindly and freely offer advice and help, amazing to see and read about.

Keep it up mate!

[nvrbdn]

very cool. doing great work. pic's are great.

[green69rt]

First pic.  Passenger gap is ready for a little filler and off to the next problem. 

Second pic.  Notice how the passenger side holes set to the back of the holes in the rocker.  They should match up.

Third pic shows the bottom of the fender where it meets the rocker and the door.  Kind of blurry.  Sorry.

I marked along the fender so you can see how much overlap there is.  The top of the fender is fairly close.  I can't raise the front of the fender because the mounting holes to the inner fenders would be out and also because the front of the fender traps the radiator support between upper and lower flanges on the fender.

More later, getting ready for a Halloween party.  Who knows how much I'll get done tomorrow

[fy469rtse]

Ok can your humour me Mitch
I would like you to put the following bolts in , you won't get a clear idea unless you do, first bolts on inner skirt along radiator surport, there's a bit off play in those so try and lift the guards up , the only thing this will affect is guard to bonnet edge gap ,
I noticed with your repairs no holes in the bottom, can you drill these in the right spot and put them in with the self threaded washes, it will take a bit of effort, but if you can get these in and with those front inner skirt bolts already in tight guard won't move forward, interested to see if the rest stays where it is and only induces more of a bow to side 
Not as bad a fit on my car but interestingly similar to the amd fender
Did you hang one of the originals to see if any difference ?
Great work on the door gap , once filled and under coated , you would never know

[fy469rtse]

I would still like to see photos of original fender on there for comparison  , looking good Mitch,

[green69rt]

Took the weekend off.   I'll start again today. 

[fy469rtse]

What's the latest Mitch, looking for a bit of inspiration myself, lost my motivation
And is always good to see other members cars and the work being done

[green69rt]

What's the latest Mitch, looking for a bit of inspiration myself, lost my motivation
And is always good to see other members cars and the work being done

More info coming today (with pics.)

Later folks.

[nvrbdn]

    i cant wait.

  work is going great so far. lots of pic's or the fender alignment, and holes lined up/ not lined up.

[green69rt]

Ok can your humour me Mitch
I would like you to put the following bolts in , you won't get a clear idea unless you do, first bolts on inner skirt along radiator surport, there's a bit off play in those so try and lift the guards up , the only thing this will affect is guard to bonnet edge gap ,
I noticed with your repairs no holes in the bottom, can you drill these in the right spot and put them in with the self threaded washes, it will take a bit of effort, but if you can get these in and with those front inner skirt bolts already in tight guard won't move forward, interested to see if the rest stays where it is and only induces more of a bow to side 
Not as bad a fit on my car but interestingly similar to the amd fender
Did you hang one of the originals to see if any difference ?
Great work on the door gap , once filled and under coated , you would never know

I tried to do what you asked.  No luck.  The first pic below shows how far the fender brace that bolts to the radiator support is off.   I couldn't push the fender back far enough to line up the bolt holes.  I could line up the holes in the bottom of the rocker but it made the fender bow out so much that I was afraid it was going to cause the metal to kink so I quit trying.

I went over the CDR's house and we made some measurements on his car to compare to mine.  Just some simple things to check, not trying to match factory but just to see if we could see where the problem was.  Second pic shows how we measured from the front middle of the cowl to the radiator support.  His car was 41 1/2" and mine was 41 1/4".  Likewise from the top of the firewall to the radiator support was 39 1/4" on his and 39" on mine so looks like a little off there but not much.  Next we measured from the front edge of the K member to the first hole in the bottom of the rocker (sorry I couldn't get a good picture while holding the tape measure.)  His car 44 3/4" and mine 43 1/2".  Looks like the complete frame is set back about an inch too much!  We also took a cross measurement to make sure the front is square.  Looks good.

So the next is to check the relation of the TB cross member to the LCAs.  Got to mount them back up and put the TBs in to make sure that there is nothing funny going on there.  If that turns out ok, I going to cut the front clip including frame, inner fenders and radiator (as one piece) from the rest of the car.  Line everything up, mount the fenders and make sure everything fits, tack it back in place.  Check again, weld everything back up.  At the rate I work maybe done by Christmas.  If this works I will be out about $900 in parts and a lot of my time.   A lot better that the $15k the shop wanted.   

Stand by.    I hope to start tomorrow building  a support for the front clip to hold it while I do the alignment.

[fy469rtse]

So it's not just down at the nose Mitch , back as well, sorry mate,
You have a bit of work in front of you yet,
A set back but in no means out of your capabilitys , look forward to you posting , rest of the car looks great if you compare it the start, it's come a long way

[green69rt]

Stand by, more to come.