Mitch's 69 Charger restoration -sheet metal

[green69rt]

I still haven't figured out how to insert pictures inside the text yet, if anybody knows how could you give me a hint?

After I cut of the rotten rear frame rails I was going to repair the driver side wheel well that had been patched by a previous owner.   This is the patch in question (first picture.)   It was spot welded and screwed on to the old section of wheel well. I started by stripping all the paint, undercoating, seam sealer, rubber sealant, etc off.  Then began adding some weld metal to fill the holes and rugged seams.  Then ground down to make it look better, weld, grind, weld, grind, weld, grind.  I was spending a lot of time. As I look ahead I see that there is more patches to be made and my dress-up of the old patches is not looking very good (second picture.)

Things look bad when I get to the front part of the well (third picture, notice the rotten inner rocker.  Another story.)  More patches and some more rust holes where the well meets the rear floor board.  I decided to cut out the old patches, buy a new wheel well and do my own patch.  It can't look any worse than what was there. 

So, here's the result (fourth picture.)  I know you can't see much, especially since I slathered POR Patch on the seam.  This is turned out so much better than the old patch.

[426HemiCharger]

What the hell are you talking about, thats great!!!

[green69rt]

OK, here is a question for you folks!  I'm reaching a point of decision, replace the quarters or not?  Here's the situation.  The existing quarters have been repaired at least once and probably twice.  You can see seams inside the trunk that show where the repairs were made (underneath all the undercoating that was sprayed inside the trunk!!)  See the first picture.  The outside of the quarters show that the body lines have disappeared.  See the second picture.  I also need to get to the rear part of the rockers (sometime called the sill rails to do some repairs) on the inside and outside.

So the questions are 1.) do I replace the quarters (my intent was to do it?)  2.) Who makes a good skin or quarter panel with nice sharp lines? 3.)  What's easiest, to replace up to the line where the sheet metal turns horizontal or to go over this line and get into the top part(close to the gas tank filler cap?)

[mopar_nut_440_6]

OK, here is a question for you folks!  I'm reaching a point of decision, replace the quarters or not?  Here's the situation.  The existing quarters have been repaired at least once and probably twice.  You can see seams inside the trunk that show where the repairs were made (underneath all the undercoating that was sprayed inside the trunk!!)  See the first picture.  The outside of the quarters show that the body lines have disappeared.  See the second picture.  I also need to get to the rear part of the rockers (sometime called the sill rails to do some repairs) on the inside and outside.

So the questions are 1.) do I replace the quarters (my intent was to do it?)  2.) Who makes a good skin or quarter panel with nice sharp lines? 3.)  What's easiest, to replace up to the line where the sheet metal turns horizontal or to go over this line and get into the top part(close to the gas tank filler cap?)

If it was me I would install full quarters right up to the seam in the sail panel. I am currently working a a 2nd gen which had the RH quarter welded along the seam at the top edge of the 1/4 where it meets the flat edge of the 1/4 and this was not too bad to deal with. There is minimal filler on this side and it was a quick easy finish. The LH side was cut along the top of the panel about half way into the gas filler cap area (2 inches in on the flat)and it was a mess. The heat warped this panel quite badly and I spent many hours hammering and dollying it back into shape. The oil canning was very bad. It came out pretty good but at one point I was ready to cut the panel off and order a new AMD full 1/4. I like the AMD products I have used them and they seem to fit very well and I feel the quality is good. Just my opinion!

The other thing to keep in mind is every time you open your trunk you would look at the inside and think "Why did I not change the 1/4's? I would anyway. I am not a professional bodyman but I can weld and fab much better so it is far easier for me to start with nice new metal than to have to try to sculpt a body! Looking at your pictures I would bite the bullet and change the 1/4 and I am confident you will be happier in the long run knowing that you repaired the car, IMHO, the correct way!

Cheers,

James

[426HemiCharger]

Looks like a great repair but I really can't judge it since its not my car and I can't see the repair. Anyway I would order a new quarter from Goodmark

Here's the link:

http://ecom.goodmarkindustries.com/cgi-bin/NLNETUPD?co_id=GM/&reqr_type=O&session_no=RROTZD4DREEU19O94GO4GO97E&NL_ORDER_NO=0&cust_no=999999&LOC_NO=001&request_id=QCSTKLST1&mkt_level_1=1969&mkt_level_2=DODGE&mkt_level_3=CHARGER&mkt_level_4=600-699&mkt_level_4_title=quarter%20panels%20and%20skins,%20wheelhouses,%20bedsides

I would only cut and replace what is necessary to keep maximum structural integrity.

[Charger74]

There is a local place near here called DiamondBack motors.  They build a wide selection of Mopar engines.  Anybody got any news on them??

Diamondback used to be owned by Dave Schultz (a/k/a Big Kahuna) from MoparStyle.com.  I thought he still owned it, but when I visited 'Style just now to confirm that fact I found a thread where he said back in January of this year that he no longer owns Diamondback and was liquidating a bunch of parts. 

Are you sure Diamondback is still in business?  Could be that he just sold off to someone else, I dunno.

BTW, welcome to the site.  F3 Green is a good color, a friend of mine has a F3 Green '69 HemiCharger that I like the looks of quite a bit.  Good luck with the resto!

I think he sold it off to one of his partners, I think it's Damon Kuhn (Fugly) that owns it now.    Damon is a good builder and should be able to build you a great motor.

[charger_cody]

Looks good man.
Keep those pics coming.   





Cody

[426HemiCharger]

post more!!! I love to watch restorations go together.

[69*F5*SE]

Yeah, I'd like to know how things are moving along too. 

[1969chargerrtse]

Hello?  Looking good.

[green69rt]

Ok, here's my story of working on the rear corners of my 69 Charger.  I've heard all the stories of how the repop parts don't fit so I was prepared.  I have a pair of corners I bought and was starting to go through the process of adapting them when I said to myself 
"why don't I get out my old corners and see how they compare to the repops??"

I keep all the old parts of the car until the new part are in.  I like to check shape and weld points etc.  As I was looking I said "why spend many hours adapting the new parts when the old parts would work??"  Picture one shows the old and new, lots of difference!!  The actual height is about 3/8 inch!!  So I cleaned up the old part, it will take some weld repairs to fix the points where I cut it off the car but the parts that show are perfect!!

Another picture of the old (left) vs the new (right). 

So after cleaning up the old corner I've started to fit it to the car.  I have a valance from Y1 and it so far the old corner fits fine!!  So much better than the repop!!

[Hemidog]

Hey, if you're old ones are in that good condition, they are a 1000000 times better!

[69*F5*SE]

Yeah, if you can get away with using the original corners by all means use them if they fit better. They look to be in good condition. 

[green69rt]

Yeah, if you can get away with using the original corners by all means use them if they fit better. They look to be in good condition. 

I'm going to use the originals.  I spent the day cleaning them up, welding up the cuts I made getting them off and doing a little more fit up.  I may take the new flanges off the repops and weld those to the old corners to complete the installation.  More later.

[green69rt]

I'm kind of skipping around a little on the story but here's the some more.  Since I started in the trunk I have now replaced the rear frame rails, rear spring brackets, gas tank brace, rear frame cross member (behind the valance) and the rear shock brace.  Both inner wheel wells have been patched and the new trunk floor is in. 

Picture one shows the new rear frame and spring brackets and the gas tank bracket.  The spots on the frame are where I left holes in the POR15 so I could plug weld the trunk floor to the frame.  I started by placing the floor in and marking the underside of the floor with an outline of the frame.  Pulled the floor out.  Then I drilled a bunch of 5/16" holes (next time I think I'll just go with 1/4".)  Then I put the floor back in and marked through the holes with a sharpie onto the frame.  Pulled the floor back out.  I stuck little paper circles to the frame over the sharpie marks then painted inside and outside the frame with POR15.  Pulled the dots off and painted the bare spots with weld-thru primer.  Put the floor in, AGAIN, and clamped it in place.  Plug welded all the holes, ground them down and finished the inside of the floor with POR15 then some high build primer to clean up the remaining pits in the welds.

The second picture shows the passenger side wheel well patch.   It's shiney because the paint is still wet.  Third picture is the passenger side well from the passenger compartment.  The fourth picture is the trunk floor ready to install with a bunch of plug weld holes drilled in it.

[green69rt]

Just a little more info.  The first picture shows the trunk floor in primer and before sanding.  Let me say first that I put the primer on with a brush!!  Two coats.  For the trunk it won't matter to me and besides I'm going to sand the whole thing down before the final spray on coat of primer.  The second picture shows the underside of the floor before I get under it and dress up all the weld burn marks.  My appologies for the poor pictures but it's hard to shoot good ones in the trunk and from 2 feet away under the car.

[mopar73]

Keep up the good work gotta love the pics

[426HemiCharger]

I know I love the pics.

[green69rt]

Looks like it is a vinyl top car. Curious what color was the vinyl top? Are you going to put it back on or not. Also wondering what color the interior is.   

From the pieces of the old top still on the car it was a green vinyl top.  I'm still debating going with the original (I like the look) or a black top.  Probably stick with the green.

[green69rt]

Keep her all stock - Restoration guideline: If you are not happy with the car and you modify it it wasn't the right car to buy first of all.

I'm pretty happy with this car other than the fact that my expectations of the condition were higher.  I deliberately bought this car because I wanted to feel free to modify it to suit myself. Engine mods, suspension mods, electronics are all up for grabs.  Basic body and appearance will stay stock but the rest is up to me.

This is not a number matching car, it would not be a high value car and I think that today a lot of folks would consider this a "parts" car.  While I understand your comment I hope you can see what my thought process was when buying the car.

[hemigeno]

Keep her all stock - Restoration guideline: If you are not happy with the car and you modify it it wasn't the right car to buy first of all.

I'm pretty happy with this car other than the fact that my expectations of the condition were higher.  I deliberately bought this car because I wanted to feel free to modify it to suit myself. Engine mods, suspension mods, electronics are all up for grabs.  Basic body and appearance will stay stock but the rest is up to me.

This is not a number matching car, it would not be a high value car and I think that today a lot of folks would consider this a "parts" car.  While I understand your comment I hope you can see what my thought process was when buying the car.

Don't sweat the comment made about your car or chosen restoration path.  There's a reason why that particular member isn't welcome around here at the moment.

[green69rt]

Next episode!  This restoration is really taking longer than I thought, but I also don't have as much time to work on it as I thought!

So I got the trunk floor in and tacked the new rear valance on.  Then I thought that I would just do a test fit of all the final pieces on the rear of the car before I went any further.  The bumper braces that mount inside the trunk took a little work but nothing remarkable, the trunk lock brace fits fine except for one place at the bottom which required a little trim.  Then comes the bumper!

I must have fit that thing up three or four times before I decided to take the bumper off and test it for straightness.  What I found was that the bumper was curved downward at both ends, like it was sagging at the ends from its own weight.  This bumper was purchased by the previous car owner and was still in the box from Goodmark.  I had no reason to think there was anything wrong so planned to use it as is.  After closer inspection the chrome job was pretty poor so I guess I will take it to a local shop to get straightened and re-chromed.

The bumper fit looks good from a few feet in the camera but not any closer. If you look at the ends you can see how low the bumper sets down from the quarter end moldings.  Maybe 3/8 inch on both ends and thats with the center a little high.

[green69rt]

It's been a while since I put anything up.  Things move a lot slower than I hope.  With the trunk floor in I moved on to the driver side outer wheel well.  It was a lot easier than I thought.  The inner and outer wheel wells came from different makers and so were slightly different in the flange shape.   They still fit but getting both from the same maker would probably have made the fit up easier.  I just cut the old well at the flange and welded the new well on top of the old flange, another 1/16" of metal wasn't going to make any difference.

First pic is the new wheel well installed.  Second pic is of a small patch that was needed because rust got into the inner window frame.

Now I plan to move on to replacing the inner and outer rockers (yep, both!!!)  The third Pic is of the inside of the rocker that I took from the rear wheel before I put in the new well.  Lots of rust!  The inner rocker is to the right, see the rotten metal??  To the left is a bent out piece of the rear quarter,  The rocker metal underneath had been cut away and not replaced in a previous incarnation.  The metal edges you see are the old cut. 

Finally, the fourth pic is of what I found in the driver side rocker.  Something had taken up residence sometime in the past and left its nest behind.

More on the rocker saga later.

[green69rt]

Now on to the driver side rocker. The outer and inner need replacing.  AMD supplies the outer metal.  I had a fab shop make me up a piece of 16 ga. for the inner. It's pretty much a straight piece of flat plate with a few indentations for the various braces. More on that later. First a look at the existing rocker. The fist pic is of the front of the rocker. The outer rocker had been patched sometime in the past by someone that just welded the new metal on top of the rusty old metal so when all the old metal was gone the rust moved right into the new. When I inspected the bottom flange on this rocker I found four layers of metal, old inner, old out, new outer and some patches on the inner.  

The second pic is at the rear of the driver side inner rocker, in some places I could put my hand inside the rocker through the rust holes. The third pic is of a inner rocker patch. Funny thing about this patch is that is was only welded at the bottom so any water that was washed up on it would be sure to migrate into the rocker and continue the rust process!!  Fourth pic is of the patch after I cut off the bottom weld.  It just fell off!

Now onto the repair plan.

[The70RT]

Sorry that you found more carnage. Looks like youre handling it well though