Mitch's 69 Charger restoration -sheet metal

[djcarguy]

 :        wow- some great work in saving that charger , i can do some hammer and panel swap.  but man your skill and drive to stay at it and conquer all those rust areas. sure makes me wish i had kept the rust free shells ,even 4 doors for doner panels. who know 20 years ago and on west coast we dont see that massive rust . my 69 dart gt was just front unibody damage 3o yrs ago. friend scraped 69 sattillie ht quarter damage no rust.i may end up in mopar fire pit..   great work and what u mean may not keep it after all that???   and what is even left to blast,   you have like replaceD  EVERYTHING,ALLMOST,LOL ..   keep and drive it

[Charger_Fan]

You've really made some awe-inspiring progress on that car! I'm really looking forward to future installments on your project, keep at it. 

[green69rt]

I am declaring victory on the trunk!!  Last week has been really cold here in Houston so not much done but I did take enough time to get in there and weld in the bumper braces, and the lock brace.  Then I went over the whole trunk floor again to clean up all the burn marks plus marks left from me climbing in and out and the hose marks from the welding lines.  Then I shot another coat of primer to freshen everything up.  I even shot the outside of the tail light panel so my wife can see that I'm making progress ( I don't think she had much confidence that anything was getting done!!)  So first pic is of the outside of the tail light panel.  Second pic is the inside of the panel then the next two show the new braces and the the trunk lock brace.

[charge69]

Some very nice work going on there! I haven't really followed your thread but, it must have been pretty far gone when you started.  Keep at it and it will get done.

[tan top]

looking good 

[green69rt]

Well the I've decided to tackle the front window frame next.  It is another part I have not been looking forward to.  Both lower corners are in really bad shape.  Rusted through, but the rust does not look like it got into the flange where the upper cowl meets the lower cowl.  It does look a little ugly aroung the bottoms of the A pillers.  I'm thinking of going after this in one of three ways.  All three involve cutting up or using a whole new upper cowl from AMD so it is on order today I think I got a good deal thru 521 Restorations.  Got the discount from this website.

First is to only replace the window channel.  This would involve the least replacement of metal but welding in the new channel right up to the point where it turns out to the top surface of the cowl looks a little dicey.  And I will have to go that far cause the rust is right up to that point.

Second is to cut the top part of the cowl away down to where it is behind the hood but not to where it attaches to the lower cowl and firewall.  This looks easier than the first method but only leaves a small amount of the old cowl and why do that instead of....

Third, replace the whole thing and be done with it.  I can then get inside the cowl and clean it all up and rust proof inside the cowl easily.

Attached are pics of the window frame areas that are of concern.   Pic one and two are the lower corners.  Three is the top edge which looks real good and the fourth is one of the A pillers.

[charge69]

My hat is off to you, Mitch and I will also wait for an answer from the experts for you.  That just looks like too much rust for me to tackle but, I am not that good at this sort of thing. With all the rust, I would just bite the bullet and replace as much as I could but that is   just me!   

Good luck on the work and an answer.

[Patronus]

I've used Jeff from 521 Restorations for all my big ticket items. Quarters, glass, valence, grille chrome.. he's always been super great to deal with. Got some items dropped shipped when he was away, or saved on group purchasing/shipping, even went to pick up in-stock items. He's got quite the stable and shop facilities so he knows what he sells. 

You may want to try leading some of that, much of that a pillar was lead from the factory.

[XS29L9B2]

nice work your car was very rusty 

[green69rt]

Just thought that I would throw this up.  The attached picture is my wife beside the car I bought new on the day of our first date.  She was 17 so you can do the math.  When I retired I decided to need a full time hobby so I bought the car that I am restoring and want to make I a clone like we had when we first got married.  It's been a pretty good 40 years, just wish that I had kept the old car along with the wife.  I think the picture was taken with an old Kodak instamatic so no complaints about picture quality.

New episode coming as soon as I can pick out the pictures of the cowl replacement.

[stripedelete]

Just read your entire thread.  How do you walk with those giant testicals?

So, you're actually building a time machine.  Very cool..

[tan top]

Just thought that I would throw this up.  The attached picture is my wife beside the car I bought new on the day of our first date.  She was 17 so you can do the math.  When I retired I decided to need a full time hobby so I bought the car that I am restoring and want to make I a clone like we had when we first got married.  It's been a pretty good 40 years, just wish that I had kept the old car along with the wife.  I think the picture was taken with an old Kodak instamatic so no complaints about picture quality.

New episode coming as soon as I can pick out the pictures of the cowl replacement.

good back in the day picture  !  thanks for sharing 

[green69rt]

I finally decided how to handle the front window frame.  I replaced the complete upper cowl with new metal from AMD (they should give me a big discount!!)  I spent a while sanding the lower cowl and getting it prepped for the new piece.  I stripped and sanded and then coated the whole thing with POR15.  Then I put the windshield wiper pivots back in to help with the alignment of the new piece.  Stripped off the POR15 from the places I wanted to weld and coated those place with weld thru primer. 

Now, I had to decide how to seal the upper cowl to the lower cowl along the flange where the dash bolts up.  If this is not water tight then water can get from inside the cowl into the passenger compartment.  I ended up using SEM Heavy Body sealer (part no 40377).   I used that particular sealer because it's advertised as having an extended working time of 15 to 30 minutes as opposed to the regular sealer that only gives you 10-15 minutes (I know, I used the regular one on my trunk.)  First I scuffed up the POR15 and the weld thru primer in the area that I thought that would be in contact with the sealer so it would bond well.  Then I put a heavy bead down on the flanges with a little extra on the side towards the passenger compartment.  Then I clamped the new upper cowl to the lower cowl.  Lots of clamps!!  Then I cleaned up the sealer that squeezed out of the flanges and plug welded everything down.

If I had to do it again, I would not plug weld the flange where the dash attaches.  I would either notch out the upper cowl to provide weld points or just seam weld along that flange.  Either method would keep the heat of the welding further away from the sealer.  As it was, every time I welded the flange the seam sealer caught fire and I had to keep putting it out with a wet rag.  It turns out that the seal was still good (I tested it by getting a garden sprayer with a flexible hose in the cowl thru the vent openings and sprayed water to test the seal, all A-OK.)

First pic is the lower cowl prepped for paint.
Second pic is Cowl clamped in place and shows all the sealer oozing out.
Third pic is the cowl clamped in place for welding (notice all the clamps!!)

[green69rt]

One final issue around the cowl.  Mopar soldered the area between the cowl and the A piller.  I debated a long while on how to handle this joint.  When I took off the old cowl I ended up removing all the old solder (I assumed it was a lead solder) by heating it up with a butane torch till it ran and scrapiing off as much as I could.  I really worked hard at this step because I knew that I would have to grind any residual off which I did with a funny looking sheet over my body and using a industrial grade particulate mask.  

So when the cowl was installed I had a fair size gap between the new cowl and the rest of the body.  I kind of fished around for a solution (soldering was considered, but I didn't want to spent much effort on new tool and skills) so after talking to some body guys I just decided to fill the gap with some weld material.  I laid a layer of weld bead down and ground it down then another on top of that and a final grinding got it real close.  A thin layer of filler and it will be done.

First pic shows the gap in question.
Second pic shows the welded joint waiting on primer and filler.

[72Charger-SE]

I am intimidated to cut the floor pan out of the driver's side as I am unsure how to weld the new one back in.  All the frame rails and frame supports have undercoating from the factory and what wasn't undercoated was covered in red clay which pretty much preserved it.  I wish I had your knowledge, ability, and vision...  I am very impressed and look forward to seeing your car completed.   GOD Bless! 

[green69rt]

I am intimidated to cut the floor pan out of the driver's side as I am unsure how to weld the new one back in.  All the frame rails and frame supports have undercoating from the factory and what wasn't undercoated was covered in red clay which pretty much preserved it.  I wish I had your knowledge, ability, and vision...  I am very impressed and look forward to seeing your car completed.   GOD Bless! 

Thanks for the kind words but I was in the same situation as you.  I've never doen this before, I'm a fair mechanic but very amateur body man.  Look on this site for help.  My thoughts as I go through this job is to do what I can at each stage.  If all you know is that you need to cut out rust then find a way to do that.  Then work from there.  Most important is to develop your welding skills.  Two things about welding...  1) practice counts so get some scrap and practice and/or take some lessons at your local high school (I did, twice!!) 2) remember the the grinder is the welders friend.  You can always cut out a bad piece and do it again or you can grind down sloppy welds to look good.

[1969chargerrtse]

Just thought that I would throw this up.  The attached picture is my wife beside the car I bought new on the day of our first date.  She was 17 so you can do the math.  When I retired I decided to need a full time hobby so I bought the car that I am restoring and want to make I a clone like we had when we first got married.  It's been a pretty good 40 years, just wish that I had kept the old car along with the wife.  I think the picture was taken with an old Kodak instamatic so no complaints about picture quality.

New episode coming as soon as I can pick out the pictures of the cowl replacement.

Wow R/T SE.  I love old original pictures.  So It came with those white walls?  You're doing a awesome job. 

[green69rt]

Just thought that I would throw this up.  The attached picture is my wife beside the car I bought new on the day of our first date.  She was 17 so you can do the math.  When I retired I decided to need a full time hobby so I bought the car that I am restoring and want to make I a clone like we had when we first got married.  It's been a pretty good 40 years, just wish that I had kept the old car along with the wife.  I think the picture was taken with an old Kodak instamatic so no complaints about picture quality.

New episode coming as soon as I can pick out the pictures of the cowl replacement.

Wow R/T SE.  I love old original pictures.  So It came with those white walls?  You're doing a awesome job. 

Yeah, I remember those old Firestone Wide Oval nylon tires with the thin white walls.  I think they last 2200 miles!!

[TUFCAT]

Awesome work!!!!...are you sure you've never done this stuff before?

Just FYI, theose were Goodyears not Firestones....Chrysler didn't use a Firestone tire on a car until the Omni/Horizon came out.

[green69rt]

Awesome work!!!!...are you sure you've never done this stuff before?

Just FYI, theose were Goodyears not Firestones....Chrysler didn't use a Firestone tire on a car until the Omni/Horizon came out.

Now that you jog my memory, I think you are right.  Whatever they were, they  sure wore out fast!

[TUFCAT]

...and a 440 will do that!

Its truely amazing to see a guy do all this metal work himself - in his home garage!! .... I can't wait to see the finished project.  

Do you have any pics of the car as purchased?  I'm curious to see how it looked before it came apart showing off all those hidden "treasures".  

[green69rt]

Here's a couple of pic of the car when I received it.  This is a classic case of not having the car professionally inspected before purchase.  

First pic... doesn't look too bad except for the dented front fender.
Second pic....  I knew the rear frame was in bad shape, you can see what looks like holes from a trailer hitch or something.

[TUFCAT]

Wow, it really didn't look that bad on top...or the bottom actually

I bought a Tennessee car that looked pretty good on top except for dead original paint. I didn't think Tennessee cars got any "real" rust compared to Michigan cars, but I found an unusually rusty one.  It showed typical rust the bottom of both front fenders and lower quarters (found to be the type that makes big holes when poked with a screwdriver) but I was shocked that the floors and crossmembers were a rusty mess - but nothing like yours thank goodness.

This car must have lived on, and been driven on dirt roads for years. Thick dirt can hold moisture like a sponge especially when parked on a dirt floor, or a damp place. This car from Tennessee was actually rusting from the bottom up!

[TUFCAT]

At least the grille looks nice....

[green69rt]

The car did run when I got it home, I drove it into the garage.  Had to be careful as one wheel cylindar was leaking and the brake fluid ran out fast.  Almost ran into my work bench except that I did a Fred Flintstone to get it stopped in time.  That was the last time it moved under it's own power.  Biggest disappointment I've had with the car was how bad the rockers and the front frame rails were.  I was counting on all the other bad stuff but not the rockers and the front frame rails.  Life is full of little surprises, right?