73 Charger lights now working, except FASTEN SEAT BELT and REAR LIGHTS

[WH23G3G]

I figured out the spark problem at the battery. It was a bad starter relay that was causing the problem. I replaced the starter relay and hooked everything up and all my lights work. Except a few little problems. My gear selector, turn signal, and hazzard lights have some kinda ground issue as they only come on when it's grounded. The fasten seat belt symbol and buzzer come on when I probe the ground with a test light. In the wiring diagram it shows the dark blue wire going to an eyelet type ground. But it actually goes into the connector on the car. I don't see where the ground issue is being caused. Is it only suppose to work if the engine is running? Check out my rear tail lamps, we could not figure out why this was happening. I thought I put all the bulb sockets in the right spot because I had to change out the housings. The two middle ones on each side don't work and the license plate lamp doesn't come on. It doesn't even show getting power at the tag lamp. Any idea what else I could probe and check? When the brake lights come on it brightens these up that are lit.

[Nacho-RT74]

Except a few little problems. My gear selector, turn signal, and hazzard lights have some kinda ground issue as they only come on when it's grounded. The fasten seat belt symbol and buzzer come on when I probe the ground with a test light.

well, when you are grounding somewhere and you have a bad ground all around you can easily get anything coming to life, because all circuit is somehow related. Does happens the same when you have a bad HOT power source

In the wiring diagram it shows the dark blue wire going to an eyelet type ground. But it actually goes into the connector on the car. I don't see where the ground issue is being caused. Is it only suppose to work if the engine is running?

There is not a chance you get a blue wire with eyelet terminal and being grounded as far I can tell. Blue wires are key power related. Just some blue wires with traces related with seatbelt system could it drive some ground, but not to chassis.

I have to check further though! to be sure

Check out my rear tail lamps, we could not figure out why this was happening. I thought I put all the bulb sockets in the right spot because I had to change out the housings. The two middle ones on each side don't work and the license plate lamp doesn't come on. It doesn't even show getting power at the tag lamp. Any idea what else I could probe and check? When the brake lights come on it brightens these up that are lit.

The middle section on each tail lense is just a reflective area... not a bulb there. Each tail light carries just two parking and brakes lights, and the reverse one. License plate light does have a pigtail/plug ( bullet ) on left side rear light to be feeded. Is simply an splice from the tail light assembly harness. If you have power on tail lighst parking function, you must have power at license plate light, if plugged, if good bulb, and if good body ground at license tail light assembly.

Brakes lights are high consumption filaments. If you have low batt they it could be some dim

[WH23G3G]

Should the rear tail lights light up like that? Maybe the license plate light isn't grounded. I soaked the socket in EVAPO-RUST so it is perfectly clean connection. I got a new lens cover and gasket maybe it's just loose connected to the bumper. I cannot figure out the seat belt lights. It is two blue wires coming from the FASTEN SEAT BELTS sign one blue wire has a tracer and the other is solid blue. The two blue wires go into a plug that plugs into another plug there is no eyelet for ground.

[Nacho-RT74]

yes, tail lights are just like that.

seatbelts wires... yes they re in that way... then one wire comes from seatbelt plug at kick panel what is driving ground source, and the other one from key powered source.

SOME diagrams state an eyelet terminal riveted to the seatbelt panel insert at metallic area where bulb socket is inserted, then the socket on those is to be used bayonet kind bulb. The other wire directly to the socket. Since the socket is one wire kind the ground to feed the bulb is by the socket chassis, so then the bulb enclosure and insert, where eyelet terminal is riveted. That kind of seatbelt panel insert is very earliers one ( 71 specific ) but still being used on laters. That was a setup made to share same power setup ( being the riveted wire pos or neg, dunno remember ) on LOW FUEL kind inserts

NOW, another models, more laters ones, use the 164 bulb ( like the sidemarkers ones ) where sockets are plastic and with both wires arriving directly to socket to feed directly the bulb. Then those seatbelt panels insert never got the eyelet termilal riveted to panel, no need for that being the socket got directly both sources.

there are more details on that that doesn't need to be floated up but teh fact is that you probably does have the plastic socket to 164 bulb with both wires arriving directly... no need for a riveted wire/terminal

[Nacho-RT74]

here the "ground" riveted to housing. Note the diff with the non riveted unit, diff socket/bulb setup.

[WH23G3G]

I have the plastic housing with the 164 bulb. Where would the ground be? I can't find it on my 73 wiring diagram because it shows the eyelet ground type on the switch. So I guess my tail lights are working properly I just have to find out why the tag lamp doesn't work. I think it might be loose, it looks like it grounds to the bumper frame according to the wiring diagram.

[Nacho-RT74]

As stated not "ground" to that asembly. BOTH Wires arrive directly to socket/bulb, not like the other one where just one wire arrives to bulb and the other pole is throught the chassis, Due the diff kind of socket/bulb setup

Dunno Really if you are talking about the dash ground. This one attachs down the driver side vent outlet ( underdash frame area above emergency brake release handle, with speed C clip nut ) but is a black wire. All probably grounds around attachs on that point. Map light too if you talks about that one too.

yes, in differency to 73/74 tail lights where housing is plastic and needs a wired ground, license plate light gets the ground through bumper assembly itself like 71/72 tail lights

[WH23G3G]

The map light is in the same housing as the FASTEN SEAT BELTS switch and the map light works fine. But the SEAT BELT light would only work if I grounded it out with a test light and the fasten seat belt buzzer would come on too. There must be another ground for it somewhere on the fasten seat belt circuit. The horn doesn't work either and it's pretty simple, it just plugs in the steering wheel and on the front of the hood. I have the ground wire for that which runs across the steering column. I'm going to mess with the FASTEN SEAT BELTS switch this weekend, I think I have another switch I can try too it's just hard to unplug it now that everything is in. I hopefully can get the tag light to work too. I'm happy the tail lights are correct that was such a pain to change the sockets out and they weren't really all that nice but I cleaned them as best I could. I noticed the cigarette light isn't all that bright even when the car will be running, there's not much light that comes out of that little hole. The glove box light is nice, it's really bright. The dash lights are really soft even though they work good. I guess the lights just weren't really bright on the gauges back then. I hope I can get the clock working, I don't think it works right. I'll keep posted my light test results.

[Nacho-RT74]

Fasten seatbelt light ( and buzzer ) LIGHTS ON when you don't have fastened your seatbelt AND put IN GEAR the tranny. An unexistant ground on Tranny NSS closes the negative circuit on seatbelt relay taken from relay chassis, running to seatbelts harness, to sensors throught gray wire, then come back to bulb and buzzer throught a blue wire once made its job through seats and retractor sensors.

As far you are in Park or Neutral, warning light and buzzer won't came up. Since I think remember you don't have engine/tranny, then you don't have NSS on circuit. For a complete testing, you need to be sure the brown traced yellow wire around is unground, and put Ign switch on RUN position with unfastened seatbelts. that should come up the warning system. If accidentally the brown traced yellow wire is grounded, seatbelt relay senses like you are in P or N, and warning signal never will come up

If you don't have the seatbelts plugged, then jump the gray and blue wires on seatbelts harness plug. That should light on the system.

If you have plugged and is still not working, then probably you have damaged switches at retractors or some seat sensor.

THATS AT LEAST MY UNDERSTANDING about how does work.

Positive to seatbelt light on this system is CONSTANT coming directly from ign switch on RUN. Thats why I think the low fuel warning package was removed on 72 cars. On 71s the seatbelt light was positive cut "switch" ( time delay flasher ) and low fuel also positive cut "switch" ( relay ), being negative riveted to housing to both functions, so then CONSTANT ground. Thats why does exist those riveted wire panels. ( mostly of them early production to 71s )

Map light has nothing to do with seatbelt light even on same insert. Is all plastic around. I was just mentioning this because that's another ground needing to be hooked, to be able to turn on the map light even with doors closed.

Horn is controled by the relay mounted on top of fusebox. If not relay, not horn, check for that. Key in Buzzer is the same device. Is a dual function relay.

I enlarged A LITTLE BIT the hole to the ashtray lighting. Yes is very poor, but really in the darkness is noticeable

[Nacho-RT74]

for more info go here:
http://imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/294/index.htm

[WH23G3G]

Oh ok thanks. I played with the lightning system a little today. I figured out the license plate lamp bracket needed some grinding to get down to bare metal so it would make good ground with my newly rechromed bumper. That's what it was. It lights up nice and bright now. So everything in the rear works good except the passenger side side marker. I had the headlight switch on and all lights were lit except that one. I took that bulb out and probed it and it didn't show power but I don't know if I had the test light on a good ground. I've got some more annoying light issues in the interior now. My turn signal lever is loose in the column, so I have to remove the wheel and tighten it up. But when I have it off I need to make sure my switch isn't bad. I took the column apart awhile back and rebuilt and painted it. Sometimes the turn signal on the dash will signal correctly and sometimes it will just stay frozen on the dash. When I pull the hazzard switch it does nothing to the signal lights on the dash at all or outside. Do I more likely have a bad turn signal switch or flashers? Also my dome light will randomly work and not work. I turn the headlight switch clockwise to turn on the dome light and probe the dome light socket and get power. Where is the ground located for the dome light? I can't locate it on the wiring diagram.

[Nacho-RT74]

hazzards: it could be anyone of both... hazzards or turning switch. If you jump the flasher plug terminals and turn on the hazzards, lights should came on FIXED. If you don't have bright fixed lights on all 4 corners, then mostly sure is turning switch or pink wire on turning switch harness/plug under column. If you get the lights on fixed then it was the flasher.

Do you have brakes light on rear ?

anything on this is assuming fuses are OK

I THINK if you have tuff whell, you could reach the lever bolt through one of the holes without remove adaptor, just the wheel itself... not sure of that though!

frozen turning pilot lights at cluster is simpthom of damaged flasher, or all bulbs except cluster blowed. On this last case pilot light at cluster does get enough load to make the flasher works.

Dome light is ground switched through door jam switches on both sides ( yellow wire ) and constant positive ( pink wire ). Lighst switch on dimmer function also send the ground to turn on the lights when spins to top. Never gets a constant negative/ground. Be sure you have 1004 bulb. Thats is an unique bulbe two contactsone filament, where base is isolated from filaments. Filaments get the power JUST by the two contacts on bottom. Different than 1057 Bulbs ( rear lights ) where both contacts drive positives, one to parking ( low intensity filament ) and one to brakes ( high intensity filament ), then base gets the ground on both cases to close circuit.

[WH23G3G]

I'm trying to remove the steering wheel to tighten up the turn signal stalk. There's no way I can it through the opening. I just have the 3-spoke design. Could a loose signal stalk be causing everything? I tried to do the turn signal test procedure that was in Mopar Muscle a few years ago but didn't understand it enough. I backprobed the black wire while the turn signal connections were plugged in and the horn blew. But it doesn't work with the buttons.  I do have a 1004 bulb in the dome light. I tried grounding it out last night to get it to work again and all it did was show a small blue spark in the bulb but I could never get it to light all the way up and stay lit again. I didn't know where the ground was. I do have all functioning brake lights. Even the tail lights are nice and bright now and everything in the back except the passenger side marker works. So the list of lights not working are. Turn signals, passenger rear side marker, horns, and dome light. I'm working on getting the steering wheel off now but the tool doesn't have the right size bolts to remove the wheel. I'm not going to put it back on until I know everything works this time.

[Nacho-RT74]

passenger side rear marker... is a splice of rear parking lights, passenger side, so is a fact you have power there because they are lighning on. Then simply bulb out or wires broken there.

where are you grounding the dome bulb ? bulb base or dome socket won't work since filament is COMPLETELLY isolated from base. As stated that bulb gets constant positive through pink wire and door jam switch ground throught yellow wire ( also there  is a ground switch on lights switch ). Do you have Map light working when open the doors ? it should work with dome light because shares same sources, except map light has an extra chassis ground to be able anytime to light on the map light through the switch on insert

If you grounded the black wire down the column ( turning switch harness ), and horn worked, the problem is on roller or stud damaged, or track down the wheel, or wire between track and horn buttons switches. Or wire between turning switch and plug.

loose signal stalk ? depending on how much is "loosen". If is loosen enough to not hook the turning switch cam, yeas of course won't work. But if even loosen you are able to get the CLICK inside, then problem could it be the switch OR flasher.

As stated, you can jump the turning flasher plug and get constant power then up to turning switch to discard the flasher. BTW are you checking those with Ign switch on RUN or ACC ? turning circuit needs to get ACC source activated.

[WH23G3G]

The turn signal stalk is so loose I can't activate the switch anymore. I've got to remove the steering wheel. The turn signal flasher is new but the hazzard one is not. It may be bad. If the lights on buzzer is working correct does that mean the horn relay is good? I tested the rear sidemarker without the bulb in the socket. Does it have to be in the socket? The dome light I was testing at the bulb base and only got a small blue spark randomly. Sometimes it would come on bright normally and then without even touching anything on the car it wouldn't work. The map light works great everytime I open the door and when I turn the headlight dimmer switch. The horns are mounted with new screws out of the underhood bolt kit but I don't know if the fender paint is causing a ground problem at the horn. The horn switch was plugged in good and not corroded.

[WH23G3G]

Update. I finally got the steering wheel off. The turn signal stalk was totally loose. I tightened it up with a screwdriver and turned on the ACC power. The signals worked without any hesitation. They did out side too. The rear tail lights blinked but the front didn't because I didn't have a bulb in it. Neither did the fender mounted turn signal because I don't have the screw in. The right worked too but I didn't have a bulb in the lower front signal. However, when I turn on the headlights and turn the signal up the light on the dash doesn't flash it stays frozen. Now that may be the side that has the front bulb out but I can't remember. When I have the headlights on and the stalk down the left signals all work. The hazzard still does nothing. It looks all nice and not corroded, hopefully just a flasher. I will buy a new set of 1004 later tonight and try to figure out the dome light. Then try to figure out the rear pass. sidemarker and the horn.

[Nacho-RT74]

Horn relay is related with key in buzzer, not with lights on buzzer. Ligths on buzzer is the plastic one at the outer side of glovebox. Horn relay/key in buzzer is plugged on top of fusebox

If you jump the horn directly to batt and works, then you have ground on horn.

Another detail on horn is sometimes need to be "tuned"... you'll find 12 points star screw to make that on horn.

the cluster light frozen when turning on lights could it be a bad ground on parking light socket or somekind of short between contacts of bulb and socket.

sidemarker... bulb in the socket ? OF COURSE!!! now if you meant bulb/socket in to the sidemarker, no it doesn't need to be inserted on sidemarker.

take care on get a HEAVY DUTY FLASHER to hazzards. You can try and jump the flasher terminals and then turn on the hazzard switch. Lights should light on ( fixed not blinking, because the blinking function is given by flasher ). If they light on then flasher is bad. If they don't light on, then problem is somewhere else. It could be wire running to turning switch ( pink ) or switch itself

[WH23G3G]

Ok the dome light works now. Maybe the bulb was old. I got a new set of 1004 bulbs and it seems to be working good. The front lower turn signals do not work. I have a bulb in the left front turn signal but it doesn't work. I unplugged the socket assembly from the front harness and turn the signal stalk and probed it with a test light. The test light lit up and flashed just like the the turn signal should. On the right lower front signal I cannot even get a bulb to go into the socket because of the corrosion. It's not unusable but it's just corrorded enough so I can't get a bulb in there. What's the best way to get them totally clean? The horn works but only one button makes the horn honk. I have the three spoke wheel with three horn buttons. I had the steering just sitting on there basically just the nut not tightened because it was hard to remove the steering wheel with the puller. If one horn button sounds the horns are the other two buttons bad? Is there a way to get those buttons to work? Finally on my right rear sidemarker I could not figure out why it doesn't light up. I tried another bulb. I tried removing the ground connections on the left side and sanding both the spades and the hole where the screw goes. It doesn't do anything. I can't see any wires messed up going to that side they all look nice. The socket is pretty dirty but not rusted inside maybe just a little grease but shouldn't make it quit working. I tried probing the socket with the bulb in and the headlight switch on and I couldn't get the test light to light up. I took the bulb and tried it too and it still didn't light up. I could cut and replace the socket. Do I need to test further or is the only thing it could be is the socket? Everything thing else on the rear works great and bright, even the signals and brake lights. I don't know about reverse because my reverse switch and transmission aren't in. So I've almost got everything going. Just the rear sidemarker and the front signals.

[Nacho-RT74]

reverse light test... you can jump the black wires at NSS plug ( outers, on acc or run key position )

rear sidemarker... it could be simply a broken wire between splice inside the driver side tail light housing and socket. MOSTLY sure, is close to socket. You could try try to test for voltage with nails allong the wire.

Horn switches... mostly sure they are bad, of course. There are replacements around on ebay. Could it be some of its wires too. Try to jump them just right before every switch itsefl to be sure are or not the wires to "damaged" buttons. I never have dealed with those switches to check for fixment... probably they are fixable.

Socket clean... dremel and brush. Then grease it with dielectric grease. What did you made on rear sockets ( if you did ) ?

Parking lamps housing needs to be good grounded. Quite often is really the socket some loose from housing, so you can tighten with a chisel and hammer ( gently ) againts the housing, just right on front lip of socket. If sockets are spinning on housing you have bad ground there.

[WH23G3G]

Removing the rear sockets from my old housings was the hardest thing to do. Because when you put them into the new housings it was hard to make them as secure as original. I soaked the socket in EVAPO RUST and it totally cleaned the inside of the socket back to like new but the outside was too pitted. It was cleaned on the outside of the socket but just looked bad. I checked all wires when I had the wiring harness out to transfer over to the new tail light housings. I didn't see any broken or chipped wires. I'm going to get a new socket tomorrow and cut it and splice the new one in. I may have to remove the front turn signals and and dip them in EVAPO RUST too and see if it helps. The housings are put in just like the factory except the top middle screw I don't have. It's missing. I can't seem to get the right screw.

[Nacho-RT74]

the top screw use to have a teeth washer to get ground, but a good lower screw fitment should give you good ground too.

[WH23G3G]

I got the right rear side marker working tonight. I don't know if I had the tail light harnesses hooked up wrong or not pushed in enough but I switched and then switched them back and pushed them in hard and everything works now. So I bolted everything back up. With the headlights on now the signals on the dash flash like they should but are just slow and outside too. Is that because the alternator isn't hooked up? The horn still only works with just one button but I guess that's two bad switches. The only thing that doesn't work is the front lower turn signals. But I know they are getting power to the assembly but maybe a bad ground. Could missing that top tooth washer/screw be causing the problem? I know one socket is corroded inside still and needs to be clean so I can get a bulb in there. But I think I'm going to have to remove the splash pan just to remove the assemblies  because of the bumper Y braces. So I almost have everything working. I had the AM/FM radio repaired for $90 and it works good. The clock doesn't work though. Hopefully it can be fixed. I'm assuming the seat belt thing will work when I get the engine running and the car moving. Hopefully soon it will have the engine/drivetrain in it and driving.

[Nacho-RT74]

Nice price for the radio fixing!!!! If I don't have to pay shipping, sure I will send to that guy. My AM simply stop to work, just have FM.

with high consumtion on all thge lights, simply batt is not getting back teh juice and yes, blinks could be turning slow.

missing the tooth washer makes miss the ground ? not necesarilly, but is a secure form to get ground. I made to remove parking lights without remove splash shield. some tricky, but is posible.