727 to a 518 or Gear Vendors?

[73TXRallye440]

Debating this now, which way would you go? 727 to a 518 conversion or a gear vendors unit?

[Rolling_Thunder]

GV unit

[flyinlow]

I have a 518 in my 73 / 446.

Just put it in , so only a few hundred miles so far. junk yard transmission with a transgo reprogrammer kit. Ultrabell addaptor.  $1000 so far.

.69 overdrive and lock up converter drop rpm more than a GV.

I Only have one speed in reverse though 

If you have the 727 and converter set up the way you like it the GV is probably a more rugged choice.

518 converter choice is limited.

My 518 makes my 3.55 axle a 2.44  at cruise.  2000 rpm at 70mph.

[73TXRallye440]

saw this from SMR trans--

http://www.smrtrans.com/

[mauve66]

up front i have a GV unit but haven't had the pleasure of going down the road under full power yet

depends on your "FUTURE" plans

do you want 4 (old 518), 5 (newer 518) or 6 (727 with GV unit) forward gears

do you want to "just drive" or manually shift the gears - both systems will allow for that but the 518 is only 1 controller for both, GV is 2 controllers unless you have an aftermarket shifter that has a hole for the red actuator button (you still need the button from GV, a nitrous/translock button will not work)

i believe they make an cross member adapter for the 518 now so you don't have a lot of hacking

you will need to hammer the trans tunnel for both applications as far as i know

i saw a paddle shifter on a 2nd Gen on here that i would love to have to control the GV unit but from what i can tell it will only mate to a computer controlled trans of a specific model, which would include the 518

GV warranties their unti for 1000-1200 HP if i remember right, i've heard that the 518 overdrive gear is the weak link in that system, but by now i'm sure someone is building them stronger

[mauve66]

i'm a slow typer, these other guys beat me to it

[73TXRallye440]

yea, may opt for the GV unit. Is $2600 the best price yall have seen?

[73TXRallye440]

我哈他太落后斯能够doＩｎｅｅｄ？8"噢日１８"？

[mauve66]

i don't think the oriental segment of this thread has put a GV behind their rice burner chargers yet

[73TXRallye440]

Whoa! Wtf? I just asked if I needed the 8 in or 18in tailhouse with the gv unit?

[mauve66]

oh , i'm sorry i thought the 8 and 18 was about valves per cylinder.............

[73TXRallye440]

LOL no. boy that was weird!

[RD]

I have a 518 in my 73 / 446.

Just put it in , so only a few hundred miles so far. junk yard transmission with a transgo reprogrammer kit. Ultrabell addaptor.  $1000 so far.

.69 overdrive and lock up converter drop rpm more than a GV.

I Only have one speed in reverse though 

If you have the 727 and converter set up the way you like it the GV is probably a more rugged choice.

518 converter choice is limited.

My 518 makes my 3.55 axle a 2.44  at cruise.  2000 rpm at 70mph.

where did you get your ultrabell? how much?

[flyinlow]

GV have a good rep. Very strong.

I plan on upgrading 518 next winter. better clutches/ conv.


They used a beefed up version behind the cummins diesel in one ton Rams PU.

518's four gears have more spread than GV's six do.

What happens to the pinion angle when you make the driveshaft 14 inches shorter ?

[flyinlow]

Ultrabell for 727/518 $325 at Summit. Cut stock one off with diegrinder/sawsall.

[Mike DC]

I think a 518 is never gonna fit into a muscle-era tranny crossmember & floor without severe hacking, whether it's got a correct big-block bolt pattern on the bellhousing or not.  Not unless you tilted the whole engine/tranny to point way lower in back, which would create pinion angle questions and maybe other stuff. 

(If all it took was the correct bolt pattern on the bellhousing for this one to work, then why don't smallblock guys do it all the time already?)

[Rolling_Thunder]

Just for a comparison and my opinion

518 costs...       

518 Transmission = $2,177.95
Torque Converter = $???
UltraBell = $325.00
Misc parts for 518 install = ~$200
Modified crossmember
Modified floor

Figure around $2,702.95 + converter

Granted you can cut costs by getting a junkyard tranny and stuff but then you should honestly have it rebuilt and upgraded anyway...    GV is cheaper all around IMO - plus more gears (if thats your thing)

Granted you could

[RD]

RT, unless... you're me! $150 for non-lock up A518, $325.00 for ultrabell, $150 for rebuild kit

$625.00 A518 in my charger! hehehe  i know.. i know... not fair if you can rebuild them by yourself.

[Rolling_Thunder]

agreed -  it is possible -  but i could also factor in selling the old 727 and all that jazz....     just trying to make a small point   

[73TXRallye440]

taching 3500 at 55 is killing me and ive got 3.55's. Just put on tires 2" taller today, hope that helps some. 25" tire to a 27".

[flyinlow]

I looked at 3 choices.

#1 . Keisler kit- a small block Chevy Trans that is modified to handle BB mopar torque . Needs stand alone computor to operate,  4l60 has a 3.06 first gear which is nice .69 overdrive, 1000 rpm freeway drop.   $4000 + $500 upgrade for 550ftlb. torque rating + $300 shipping.     = $4800


#2.  GV. kit.  Very rugged , six speed  if you want to take the time to use all of them. Only .78 overdrive , no lock up 500-600 rpm freeway drop.
     The 727 I had been running was a friends trans.  $2700 + $80 driveshaft shortening + $1000 727 Trans+ $200 shipping              = $3980


#3. 518  _Mopar trans. Looks ,feels  and drives like a torqueflight. required mods to crossmember , denting trans tunnel with a hammer.
     .69 overdrive with lock up. 1000 rpm freeway drop.  Used trans. $400 + $325 ultrabell + $120 transgo kit + $80 to shorten driveshaft+ spare    
      crossmember $25 EBAY                                                                                                                                             =$950
      Future expenses:   conv, $400 + Trans upgrade Kit $ 400                                                      Total $1750



I picked door #3.  all three require some mods to car body.  so , my car is a 73 SE, one of a only a 129,000.  I will also have to do the trans work myself for the $ numbers I used. I have rebuilt a 727"s before but not a 518. hopefully I won't screw it up and have to take it in a basket to a transmission shop.

[flyinlow]

taching 3500 at 55 is killing me and ive got 3.55's. Just put on tires 2" taller today, hope that helps some. 25" tire to a 27".
[/q

Is your tach messed up? seams high

[RD]

that is way high.. i have 3.91's and at 60 its 2900 rpm

[chargercrazy]

#3. 518  _Mopar trans. Looks ,feels  and drives like a torqueflight. required mods to crossmember , denting trans tunnel with a hammer.
     .69 overdrive with lock up. 1000 rpm freeway drop.  Used trans. $400 + $325 ultrabell + $120 transgo kit + $80 to shorten driveshaft+ spare    
      crossmember $25 EBAY                                                                                                                                             =$950
      Future expenses:   conv, $400 + Trans upgrade Kit $ 400                                                      Total $1750



I picked door #3.  all three require some mods to car body.  so , my car is a 73 SE, one of a only a 129,000.  I will also have to do the trans work myself for the $ numbers I used. I have rebuilt a 727"s before but not a 518. hopefully I won't screw it up and have to take it in a basket to a transmission shop.

More like used trans $60.00 with converter from local pull-a-part.  That's what I did.  You are going to have to rebuild it anyway.  Go pull it yourself and save some cash.  I just need to find out what converters work on the 518.  I have a non-lockup trans and I've heard that the same converters that work on the 727 will work on the non-lockup 518.  Is there any truth to this?

[flyinlow]

Non lock 518 's share converters with 727 according to Turbo Action. count the splines on the input shaft . I think 24 for 727 , 518 non LU.


23 spline for 518 with lock up
[/quote]

[mauve66]

i wish i lived where you guys do, tranny here is 200 AFTER you pull it, engine 2-400 AFTER you pull it

[flyinlow]

I looked for a518 for 4 months . No u pull 518 near me. found 2 a500's . The trans I paid $400 for was pulled ,stored inside, the year I wanted ,5.9l engine and I pulled the pan before I bought It. It was $500 with a 90 day warrenty. Since I was going to cut the bellhousing off I offer $400 with no warrenty. They agreed.

[Bobs69]

Gear Vendors will sell you another unit for half price if you do manage to break it after the warranty has ran out.

I have one, the shifts are instantaneous.  I was however dissapointed that I can't go from 1 over to 2 direct.  Rathern you need to go 1 over to 2 over.  So you need to decide where you want to split.  1 over or a 2 over.  So really the way I look at it I only got 4 driving gears when launching. 

But you got 6 to play with, and you'll like the way the engine sounds.  When in 3rd and you want to pass but you think second direct is not enough you hit the button to goto third over then floor it so it drops to 2nd over then to 3rd.

[70daytonaclone]

how do I identify a non-lockup 518 transmission? any pictures of a non-lockup? anybody?

[chargercrazy]

I got mine out of a 92 Ram 250 Van.  It was the only thing in the yard of the 12 possible donor vehicles that had a transmission left in it.  I didn't know if it was lockup or non-lockup until I looked at the converter.  Check out this article: http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/07/01/hmn_feature15.html

[flyinlow]

518 non lock up have a two wire connector instead of three wire

[idahogrumpy]

There is an adapter plate kit for a big block that can be bolted to the back of the block that will accept the 518. I'm told it is stronger than the ultra bell. We have this kit for the 518 going behind the 470. I do not have the price. The 727/904 cross member will need to be modified at very least. For the A body I had to build a new one. I had to replace the cross member in the floor also. Pretty tight fit. Kyle

[chargercrazy]

518 non lock up have a two wire connector instead of three wire

This is not always the case.  The one I have has a three wire connector and a non-lockup torque converter like CR-62 on Page 64 in this catalog:

http://www.transtarindustries.com/catDownload.asp?ID=813

[Bobs69]

I'd want to be checking into the prices of all options, and how much "Doctoring" there is for each.  The GV is a bolt on, you do need to put a couple dents into the floors so the GV doesn't knock against the tunnel.  Not that I'd want to spend money like a fool but if anytime in the future you went to a manual tranny, the gear vendors will bolt onto it as well, you just buy a different tail stock.

[flyinlow]

There is an adapter plate kit for a big block that can be bolted to the back of the block that will accept the 518. I'm told it is stronger than the ultra bell. We have this kit for the 518 going behind the 470. I do not have the price. The 727/904 cross member will need to be modified at very least. For the A body I had to build a new one. I had to replace the cross member in the floor also. Pretty tight fit. Kyle

The addaptor plate I looked at required removal of the engine tang below the starter. The addaptor plates cost more. I was concerned about bolting the Ultrabell to the pump, but I have talked to guys running twice the power my engine makes thru them without problems. You also have a SFI approved bellhousing.

[rusty70charger]

I was out in the u pull yesterday and saw a 91 van that had a long trans in it. butthe pan looked like a 904 pan square with the drivers rear corner cut off.it had a plug at the rear and several up near the front. I couldn't tell what it was. rainning and such and the instrument cluster was tore up. so can any body identify this? I would like to put a od518 behind a 360. what would be better  a lock up? or non lock up? thanks for all feedback.Rusty

[flyinlow]

If it looks like a 904 pan it is a A500 trans.  Overdrive version of the 904.

[Tilar]

I have rebuilt a 727"s before but not a 518. hopefully I won't screw it up and have to take it in a basket to a transmission shop.

Other than the overdrive unit, they are the same.

[Musicman]

GV unit... if going all new... SMR Shortie with the GV already on it. 

[chargercrazy]

I was out in the u pull yesterday and saw a 91 van that had a long trans in it. butthe pan looked like a 904 pan square with the drivers rear corner cut off.it had a plug at the rear and several up near the front. I couldn't tell what it was. rainning and such and the instrument cluster was tore up. so can any body identify this? I would like to put a od518 behind a 360. what would be better  a lock up? or non lock up? thanks for all feedback.Rusty

If you can find these vehicles, then you have found your transmission.

1990-'95 Dodge van with a 318 or 360 engine
1992-'95 Dakota with a 318 engine
1990-'91 Ramcharger with a 318 or 360 engine
1990-'95 Dodge pickup two-wheel drive (1/2- through 1-ton) with a 318 or 360

The hard part is knowing if these vehicles have/had a 318 or 360 engine.  Go onto www.car-part.com and put in the vehicles listed above and search for engine.  Then you'll know what digits to look for in the VIN.  I think the eighth digit is the one for the engine.

[Carlwalski]

A518 using built 618 parts. No messy inconsistent electronic units and gimmicky "6 speed split gears".

[d72hemi]

Not sure if I should continue this thread or start a new one, but here I go.

I have searched and searched for a lockup 518 both in the junk yards and online, and have come across some interesting information (but no transmission yet*). Some of my research has made me question the ability to use a 1990-1995 plus 1996 to present 518 (46rh/46re) or 618(47rh/47re) along with maybe the even stronger 48re.
he fallowing link made me think that all you need is a manual valve body, along with the previous discussed overdrive/locking torque converter activation, in a 96-present 46/47re.

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48652

Other good reading, from a scanned mopar magazine article. "part 2" discusses the upgrades to 1998. from what I read, a diesel or V10 truck, and the newer the better.
https://home.comcast.net/~ehostler/A518/Part_1.pdf
https://home.comcast.net/~ehostler/A518/Part_2.pdf
https://home.comcast.net/~ehostler/A518/Part_3.pdf
https://home.comcast.net/~ehostler/A518/Part_4.pdf
https://home.comcast.net/~ehostler/A518/Part_5.pdf


my questions are:

1. Is the installation (physical) of the 618 and 46/47re transmissions the same? I believe the cases are the same?

2. Can a 46/47RE transmission be made to work (without a expensive controller), with the manual valve body, and "switching" the OD and lockup.

if the answers are "YES", then that will open the available donor vehicles to most 1990-present V-8, V10, and diesel trucks (and Vipers, but I but those are a bit more $$$$). With the diesel and V-10 transmissions being the strongest, and with the "upgrades" the we would want for a high tq/hp BB.

This is just some thoughts from to many hours of reading about these transmissions. (my wife even commented on my time spent on this research). To bad I am not a transmission expert, allowing me to truly understand all that is involved, but that is why I have you guys!

I was out in the u pull yesterday and saw a 91 van that had a long trans in it. butthe pan looked like a 904 pan square with the drivers rear corner cut off.it had a plug at the rear and several up near the front. I couldn't tell what it was. rainning and such and the instrument cluster was tore up. so can any body identify this? I would like to put a od518 behind a 360. what would be better  a lock up? or non lock up? thanks for all feedback.Rusty

If you can find these vehicles, then you have found your transmission.

1990-'95 Dodge van with a 318 or 360 engine
1992-'95 Dakota with a 318 engine
1990-'91 Ramcharger with a 318 or 360 engine
1990-'95 Dodge pickup two-wheel drive (1/2- through 1-ton) with a 318 or 360

The hard part is knowing if these vehicles have/had a 318 or 360 engine.  Go onto www.car-part.com and put in the vehicles listed above and search for engine.  Then you'll know what digits to look for in the VIN.  I think the eighth digit is the one for the engine.

[Rolling_Thunder]

taching 3500 at 55 is killing me and ive got 3.55's. Just put on tires 2" taller today, hope that helps some. 25" tire to a 27".

Hmmm...    with 3.55 gears, a 27" tall tire, and 55mph you should be ~ 2430rpm...         

You are not getting into Drive!     If your transmission stays in 2nd gear you are turning ~3500

Adjust your shifter linkage ?  make sure your car is getting to Drive man! Doesnt sound like it is!


If you're in drive at 55mph and turning 3500rpm that means you have 5.13 gears !!!   

[NYCMille]

Dude... have a Kiesler in the Daytona and GV/727 in the Charger -

GV ALL THE WAY! - the thing is BULLETPROOF. I have 30,+++ on it, doing everything from drag racing, to road racing to cross country rallies - and haven't had one issue. I run 3.55s with a 285/40/18 and spin 3k @ 80mph.

The kielser is good, but clunky - different is final drive and obviously different feel. I run 285/40/18 rear and in 5th 3k is 106mph... big difference.

[flyinlow]

i agree The  GV unit is tuff . I just wish it had a better overdrive ratio . If I raced more and cruised less I would have gone with the GV.

[73TXRallye440]

thanks, looks like im going GV. Now just gotta find the specific one I need for my 3 speed 727--

http://www.gearvendors.com/hrdodge3s.html

[375instroke]

People worry about "hacking" their car.  That's the name of the game, isn't it.  People think nothing about replacing entire floor panels in their cars, now, or welding in US Car Tool frame connectors.  What's the big deal?  As for 6 gears--how does one shift with one shifter movement, then a button push, or whatever, then a shifter push.  Wait.  Don't you need to push the button again to release the GV as you shift out of 1.5, and into 2.  I see a lot of missed shifts.  I can only see 2 normal shifts, then an overdrive.

[73TXRallye440]

hacking doesnt bother me if it is unseen on the bottom of the car imo.

[Musicman]

As for 6 gears--how does one shift with one shifter movement, then a button push, or whatever, then a shifter push.  Wait.  Don't you need to push the button again to release the GV as you shift out of 1.5, and into 2.  I see a lot of missed shifts.  I can only see 2 normal shifts, then an overdrive.

With practice you may actually be able to do this efficiently, but personally... I wouldn't waste my time... Just use it for the extra gear and the strength of the unit itself... that's all the edge you need.

[flyinlow]

People worry about "hacking" their car.  That's the name of the game, isn't it.  People think nothing about replacing entire floor panels in their cars, now, or welding in US Car Tool frame connectors.  What's the big deal?  As for 6 gears--how does one shift with one shifter movement, then a button push, or whatever, then a shifter push.  Wait.  Don't you need to push the button again to release the GV as you shift out of 1.5, and into 2.  I see a lot of missed shifts.  I can only see 2 normal shifts, then an overdrive.

73 SE /518 with floor mods.........   not stock,not numbers matching, one of 129,000........catch me if you can.   Stock sucks.

[Wilde Racing]

*****NOTICE****** THREAD FROM THE DEAD!!!!!!!!


I wonder if anyone has any info out on the 518 or 46,7,8re trans and exactly how much cutting of the tunnel is required to get them to fit a 69 charger?

If anyone has any info or links please post up, THANKS!!

[flyinlow]

Not sure on a 69. On my 73 I did not cut the body anywhere. I made two dents  in the tunnel for more clearence. I actually didnot use the ballpeen . A Chevy guy , who was helping me was more than happy to bang away on my Charger. Can't see them with the black carpet.
I did cut and weld on the trans mount.

[FJMG]

I am no trans expert but ended up rebuilding my 46 re in my 97 ram and it is almost identical internally to the 727 with the exception of overdrive (valve body of course has additional valves), As a matter of fact the oil pump fits 1961 and up! One of the upgrades in the 47 is the increased # of clutches over the 46 (similar to the hemi upgrades way back when) otherwise many parts interchange. One could use thinner clutches and steels to increase the clutch area in the stock drum otherwise a deeper drum is needed. I do not see why a 46 could not be built stock except for an increase in clutches and a billet converter and still handle a stock hemi. If more strength is needed for higher horse applications then some of the internal hard parts would need attention. The 46 has the 5.9 (small block) bell while the 47 has the cummins bell so either would be removed if using the super bell anyway unless the adaptor plate is used then the 46 may be a better choice. I remember reading somewhere that if an earlier 46 is used then the electrical is much simpler (like a switch for o/d and another for l/u or something like that)
After building my 46re I am seriously considering making one work with a 426. I am even considering redesigning the metal motor mount and repo oil pan in order to drop the motor a small amount just enough to reduce, if not eliminate, any "ball pein" mod that may be required.

*edit* just noticed where I read about this, See RD's sticky!