Six Pack fuel pump?

[b5blue]

Can anyone tell me what the factory/stock six pack fuel pump is? Pics would be great! Thanks Neal

[Ghoste]

The same as the other high performance 440's

[maxwellwedge]

Can anyone tell me what the factory/stock six pack fuel pump is? Pics would be great! Thanks Neal

What year?

[Ghoste]

For 69.5 it would be part number 300 4107 as found on 67-69 440 high performance and in 70-71 it would be 342 0835 as found on the 440 high perfromance for those two years.  Would it not?

[b5blue]

So that's the one that screws together around the diaphragm, Mancini Racing said that's the one and they stopped making it. Today on EBAY I saw one listed as "original mopar six pack" and it was the kinda flat anodized one? Hence my confusion.1970 by the way, Thanks!

[Ghoste]

The kind of flat anodized one is the correct one I believe.  The one with the screws around the outside is the Hemi one.  Dodge Don will know for certain if there aren't already detailed pics somewhere on the 70 Registry site.

[maxwellwedge]

The kind of flat anodized one is the correct one I believe.  The one with the screws around the outside is the Hemi one.  Dodge Don will know for certain if there aren't already detailed pics somewhere on the 70 Registry site.

You are right - the one that is screwed together is Hemi or can be used (incorrectly) as an aftermarket HP pump. All the 69-71 440 HP pumps are the pressed together ones. The also have a nipple for the inlet and a threaded hole for the outlet.

[maxwellwedge]

So that's the one that screws together around the diaphragm, Mancini Racing said that's the one and they stopped making it. Today on EBAY I saw one listed as "original mopar six pack" and it was the kinda flat anodized one? Hence my confusion.1970 by the way, Thanks!

I think I saw the one on ebay - It is for'72-up. It has 2 nipples. Carter still makes the pump that looks and works right if you don't care too much about numbers.

[b5blue]

Thanks guys I'm real close to having everything dialed in on my 440, the six pack has been giving me fits and I've read that they are pressure sensitive so with everything being back to stock I just want a correct pressure and flow.(I was running a 292/509lift cam and heavy flowed closed chamber heads) Previously all the six pack did was flush like a toilet and away you go! Now I'm trying to get normal street-ability and better mileage(got a 145k torque converter to put in too!). Looks don't matter, it's a 318 car converted to 440 and a "daily driver" as soon as my "beater" dies.   

[Ghoste]

If you aren't worried about appearance then get the Hemi pump and see if you can get a regulator and pressure guage in there as inconspicuously as possible.

[b5blue]

Well the correct fuel pump to carb. lines just came in and I am running the vapor separator thinking "stock" is best for the long haul (may bleed off a little extra pressure). I'm wary of any extra connections in that area since the alt. is so un-shrouded, any fumes or leak and BANG!!! (I've been around boats my whole life down here in FL.) That's why I wanted a "proper" pump....even if it was not "correct". I really appreciate the input from everyone here, Mancini said they are selling off the pumps they have and that will be it, (only polished ones left) so I was trying to sort this out now.

[b5blue]

Thanks Guys! Just got off the phone with Summit, with what you told me I found a Carter that is high flow low pressure correct and it was only 38.00! YOU ROCK!Neal

[Dodge Don]

I didn't go with the correct 440 pump, I chose to upgrade to the Hemi pump for my 446.

[mauve66]

Thanks guys I'm real close to having everything dialed in on my 440, the six pack has been giving me fits and I've read that they are pressure sensitive so with everything being back to stock I just want a correct pressure and flow.(I was running a 292/509lift cam and heavy flowed closed chamber heads) Previously all the six pack did was flush like a toilet and away you go! Now I'm trying to get normal street-ability and better mileage(got a 145k torque converter to put in too!). Looks don't matter, it's a 318 car converted to 440 and a "daily driver" as soon as my "beater" dies.   

i also was told 6paks were a pain but i never had a problem with mine until the pump went bad, i'm assuming that you left the linkage for the outer carbs OFF until you got the center where you wanted it and then used the threads to get the outer linkage to "just drop in the hole" on the outers??  then you can change the springs in the outers to get what you want, my 383, stock bottom and .474 purple shaft still needed the litest yellow springs to run best.  after floored from a dead stop as the RPMs come up you "feel" the outers come in, then they are coming in too late, it should be a seamless surge or pull of power.

[b5blue]

Right, the linkage set up is the same but now with 346 heads and a resto cam I've got strong vacuum, something the 509lift cam didn't. So now I'm moving all the adjustments back to stock more or less, I guess at 60 over I'm more like 452 than 440 cu. The outboard idle settings and the diaphragm springs can now "do there dance" to give me a smooth transition. I'm really glad you guys have given me input, the FSM is not clear on just what pump is used but is clear that pressure should be at 5 lb. and bleed down slowly (in the six pack carb section). The pump we had on there for start-up after re-build my Mech. had ordered, and was bad out of the box. In a panic, on a Sat. I took off to find a 440 pump to replace it because Monday my son needed to  use the "beater" to start collage and I needed the Charger to get me to work! Anyway that all went well and now with daughter fixing to do the same thing I've got to iron out these kinks now. I'll try the yellow springs first if you think they are best, remember though the car is mostly stop and go, work a day, grocery getting duty for now, shes got to earn her keep for 3 more years till all the kids are "launched".   

[maxwellwedge]

You will notice that the fuel pump line to vapor sep. fits like crap and needs some tweaking. I would go with the stock springs (for now) seeing how it is on grocery patrol. The seat of the pants sensation of the light springs may fool you into thinking the thing is fast when in actuallity it will be slower. When you set the outboard carb rods make sure the choke is full open and you are not on the fast idle cam. When all that is set have someone mat it (engine off) and make sure you are getting full throttle. While you are doing this (center carb wide open) push the linkage rods back on the outboard carbs and check that they are opening and closing smoothly. Check your float settings - this is key. Good luck 

[b5blue]

Thanks! So I believe the stock springs are brown? I've try ed to set it up (in the rebuild) as close to stock as I could allowing for modern fuel choices, 9 to 1 Speed Pro hyper. pistons and Mopar resto cam. The 346 heads with there induction hardened seats should hold up till I can get some Mopar aluminum heads (hopefully) next year. Power has never been an issue, there is so much there even with some things slightly off that that you can't wipe the smile off my face with a hammer!

[maxwellwedge]

Thanks! So I believe the stock springs are brown? I've try ed to set it up (in the rebuild) as close to stock as I could allowing for modern fuel choices, 9 to 1 Speed Pro hyper. pistons and Mopar resto cam. The 346 heads with there induction hardened seats should hold up till I can get some Mopar aluminum heads (hopefully) next year. Power has never been an issue, there is so much there even with some things slightly off that that you can't wipe the smile off my face with a hammer!

The stock springs are what they call natural.....unpainted/unplated.

[b5blue]

Thanks again, mine are probably brown from age. It's an original early 70 off of a GTX (I actually met the original owner 4 years after buying it off of someone else!)

[b5blue]

OK now I'm going nuts..got the pump from Summit...wrong one...no threaded outlet. Sent it back and talked to tech. and today another wrong one came in....threaded outlet too small for my new "Fine Line" reproduction pump to carb steel lines!!! Spent an hour on the phone with Carter and everything is clear as mud. Anyone got a current part number for this thing? Don't know how or why with all the six packs out there this could be a booger! Guess I'll call HOLLEY!

[Ghoste]

First of all, remember the stock Six Pack pump is the barbed outlet so comparing it to all of the Six Packs out there is an unfair comparison.  As for the Hemi pump, I would have to go check mine but I believe I had to use an adaptor to connect to the carb lines.

[b5blue]

Thanks Ghoste! I've reached the same conclusion. Holley said 12-440-11 is what they recommend. It's very similar to the Carter m5903p that Mancini recommended and is out of production, they both are Hemi type pumps like the Mopar one. The last one Summit sent had a photo of a Carter6903 that looks like all of the above pumps but when it came it was completely different than the photo. I ran into this same kind of problem 13 years ago looking for the idle solenoid. Company s would advertise "complete six pack set ups" so I would call to order a solenoid and they didn't have any....How can you sell a complete set up without being able to set the idle properly? I should have just called Holley to start with. I'll just get a 12-440-11 and adapt my new "reproduction lower fuel line". All I'm trying to do is get rid rubber hose and know I have the proper pump pressure and flow.      

[maxwellwedge]

All the 440 HP pumps (in 69-70 anyway) had the threaded outlet for the steel line with fitting. I will get the part number off the box of a new Carter one I have kicking around. I will also compare it to my original pumps and fuel line fittings. Here is a pic - I'll try and find a better one.

[gtx6970]

I've sold a few carter #4845 , 3/8" nipple style inlet and threaded outlet for the 5/16" line fitting

[b5blue]

I returned one (M4845) yesterday to Summit....the outlet fitting was too small?

[b5blue]

Maxwellwedge that's exactly what I've been trying to find! I bought my pump to vapor separator line from Right Stuff and it would not fit the M4845 from Summit, the in was 3/8 as it should be but the outlet was much too small! Thanks Very much GUYS!

[maxwellwedge]

Maxwellwedge that's exactly what I've been trying to find! I bought my pump to vapor separator line from Right Stuff and it would not fit the M4845 from Summit, the in was 3/8 as it should be but the outlet was much too small! Thanks Very much GUYS!

It sounds like your line may have the wrong fitting. I am going to my shop right now and sort this stuff out. 

[b5blue]

GOD BLESS YOU!!!

[maxwellwedge]

OK - Major "DUH" moment on my part.

You need the adapter to mate that line to the pump. This is how the factory did it as well. The correct new Carter pump for 440HP is the Carter M4845 as mentioned before.

Year One has it -  AF422  Fuel line fitting, use with 440 engines to connect the 5/16" fuel line to the outlet side of the fuel pump.

You may be able to find one at your local parts house as well. The Year One fitting looks very close to an original.

Here is a pic.

Get this with the Carter M4845 and your fuel line kit and you will be dancing!

[b5blue]

OH CRAP!!! I just sent it BACK!!! Time to do the walk of shame....maybe that's how they kept the pressure @ 5.5lb. at idle? I can't thank you enough for clearing this up....I was going nuts!!!

[GreenMachine]

That's good to know, for mine I bought an unbent line with the smaller fitting. I didn't even think of using an adapter   . Here's a pic of my original line and pump. It sure would help if Summit would put the correct pic for the part on their website.

[b5blue]

Now I see the problem because that was me 2 days ago exactly! WTF...called Carter and the TECH. and I were on the websight together.He pulled up "blueprints" and walked me through everything...nothing worked with what I had (like your picture!).Summit shows a photo of a M6903(Hemi like) for that M4845 so they were lost. I couldn't figure anyone would adapt "up" from a small to large so I sent it back. Holley gave me 11-440-12 and it shows 7-8lb. at idle that the FSM warns is too high (5-5.5lb) leaving me  !! Mystery Solved! I owe ya Maxwellwedge!!! 

[maxwellwedge]

Now I see the problem because that was me 2 days ago exactly! WTF...called Carter and the TECH. and I were on the websight together.He pulled up "blueprints" and walked me through everything...nothing worked with what I had (like your picture!).Summit shows a photo of a M6903(Hemi like) for that M4845 so they were lost. I couldn't figure anyone would adapt "up" from a small to large so I sent it back. Holley gave me 11-440-12 and it shows 7-8lb. at idle that the FSM warns is too high (5-5.5lb) leaving me  !! Mystery Solved! I owe ya Maxwellwedge!!! 

As long as you owe me I will never be broke! 

Glad to help. 

[b5blue]

Greenmachine how did you use a smaller nut without a smaller pipe?By the way I'm in touch with a guy on eBay that has them and assures me his are "safe for modern fuels" also...didn't even think about the effect of alcohol mix on these things for the long term.

[GreenMachine]

The fuel line was smaller as well. I haven't installed anything yet, I figured I'd use the smaller line and see if it starves for fuel. But now I'm just gonna get the adapter.

[b5blue]

Yup me too.....and re-order the pump