1969 Daytona in Australia or Iran

[nascarxx29]

I seen that other post with the Iran car ??.But I recalled this right hand drive Aussie daytona had same grill.look at the nose grill on the Iran car .This car in now in the US and blue .Belongs to John Pappas same grille

[nascarxx29]

Now compare this to Johns car same grill
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6787.0.html


Daytona in Iran post
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,54283.0.html

[maxwellwedge]

Those rear tires make that car look like a "Zinger". Good spot on the grill.

[nascarxx29]

Thanks its all in the details .I can recall from car to car

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_81726-Dodge-Charger-Daytona-1969.html

[tan top]

wow Good spot , on the grill    coincidence 
both very hot country's though    or same car 

[maxwellwedge]

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_81726-Dodge-Charger-Daytona-1969.htm

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_81726-Dodge-Charger-Daytona-1969.html

Wow - Dave you are the Funk and Wagnalls of this forum!

[OneBadSuperbird]

OK, y'all can out all the conspiracy theories to bed now. 

In all my conversations with the previous owner of the Aussie Daytona, the car was in Australia from 1973-4 right on up til I imported it back to the U.S. in 2003. 

Keep in mind that the Aussie Daytona ceased to look like it did in the pics shown when it was completely disassembled in 1998 and the body put back to stock and the car painted in the Ford Blue that it is now. 

Now here's something for y'all to ponder.  Was there EVER a Daytona in Iran or is this an old pic of my Daytona and some bozo started an urban legend that there was a Daytona in Iran.  That sounds a bit more believable to me.  Ya gotta keep in mind that this IS the internet and that rumors can start very easily.

[Aero426]

wow Good spot , on the grill    coincidence 
both very hot country's though    or same car 

The grilles are similar but not the same.  The alleged Iran car does not have the running lights on the bottom of the nose either.    The Iran car was also shown in the same piece with a Mustang that had furrin' license plates.

[hemigeno]

Now here's something for y'all to ponder.  Was there EVER a Daytona in Iran or is this an old pic of my Daytona and some bozo started an urban legend that there was a Daytona in Iran.  That sounds a bit more believable to me.  Ya gotta keep in mind that this IS the internet and that rumors can start very easily.

John, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. 

[Aero426]

If they are the same car, it's hard to believe the derelict photo would be taken BEFORE the ones of the car in it's custom finery.   If it was taken after, why is are the grille bars speced different, the paint different, the wheel chrome reappeared and no flares on the rear quarters? 

[maxwellwedge]

Hmmm - The way it is backed into the garage leaves me to believe that the steering wheel is on the left side. Who is going to park it (pushing or under its own power) with the steering wheel side up against that wall?

[hemigeno]

The turn signals under the headlight buckets is a give-away in my book though, as is the exact-match shape of the grille opening and the Hella-style driving lights behind the grille.  Wouldn't argue the point about how it's parked in the garage, but it does make you think.  I agree with Doug, the "derelict" picture had to have been taken before the car was customized with the monster tires, stripes, etc.

OneBadSuperbird posted more than a few pictures of the car's current condition as well as some details about the car's Aussie conversion (including the details on why the turn signals were relocated) on this thread:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,23551.0/all.html

[arrow]

There was  an orange 70 Boss 302 Mustang that left Wyoming and went to Iran in 1971`, Amoco oil co. transferred alot of pet. engineers over there and it was common for them to ship cars over there . the guy with the Boss sold there , so a Daytona is a real possibility .

[nascarxx29]

In both pictures.The turn signals same locations grilles are similar but same grille size opening.The other coincedence is that Tim L with the green roll over daytona is in Australia

[tan top]

  theres not a iran   or something that sounds / spelt like it in Australia ,  like county .. etc etc & who ever posted that picture up ... did not post the whole info or got the place name wrong ...

[hemigeno]

There was  an orange 70 Boss 302 Mustang that left Wyoming and went to Iran in 1971`, Amoco oil co. transferred alot of pet. engineers over there and it was common for them to ship cars over there . the guy with the Boss sold there , so a Daytona is a real possibility .

I agree, it could have happened - and I don't think anyone here is arguing that it wasn't at least hypothetically possible.  The question is whether this particular picture (supposedly taken in Iran) is actually of a car whose history has absolutely nothing to do with Iran.

[UFO]

Now here's something for y'all to ponder.  Was there EVER a Daytona in Iran or is this an old pic of my Daytona and some bozo started an urban legend that there was a Daytona in Iran.  That sounds a bit more believable to me.  Ya gotta keep in mind that this IS the internet and that rumors can start very easily.

John, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. 

   So much cool'r on line.
Sounds like country song.LOL

[OneBadSuperbird]

I agree, it could have happened - and I don't think anyone here is arguing that it wasn't at least hypothetically possible.  The question is whether this particular picture (supposedly taken in Iran) is actually of a car whose history has absolutely nothing to do with Iran.

Precisely.  There may possibly have been a Daytona in Iran (although it's still most likely nothing more than an urban legend) but the history of the Aussie Daytona sitting out in my garage is very well known and very well documented. 

The car went from the original selling dealer in Independence, Missouri to somewhere outside Tulsa, Oklahoma where it was bought by Kevin Monk.  The car was then driven to L.A. where it was loasded on to a ship for the boat ride to Australia.  It then spent the next 30 years there.  It never left Australia til it got loaded back on a ship for the ride back to the U.S.

IF, and this is a big IF, that's the same car, it could be a pic of the car shortly after it arrived in Australia in 1973-74.  Oklahoma can get just as hot as Australia and the grille opening may have been enlarged by someone in Oklahoma back in the day cuz the car was running hot.

In any event, this particular car was never in raghead-land.

[nascarxx29]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,23551.msg256370/topicseen.html#msg256370

[bigcountry]

I don't know about Iran, but I did see a Red '68 R/T with a black stripe in Kuwait last year(2008).

[Red Ram]

You guys talking about the "Ayatollah Daytona"?

[Aero426]

This is the original story posted on the German Mustang website several years ago.

http://www.ponysite.de/ironyard.htm

[nascarxx29]

And going by the turn signal placement and grille size opening.Not to mention the color of the car.We have concluded it to be the Aussie daytona.But first glance at the grille .I knew I seen it somewhere before

[Aero426]

And going by the turn signal placement and grille size opening.Not to mention the color of the car.We have concluded it to be the Aussie daytona.But first glance at the grille .I knew I seen it somewhere before

I don't think it's the Aussie Daytona at all.     The grille size is similar and has driving lights, but the grille bars themselves are different.  Derelict has no quarter flares or lamps below the headlights.   Aussie car does not appear to have louvers across the bottom of the nose.   I have a hard time believing the derelict photo came before the retro custom photos.

[WingCharger]

And going by the turn signal placement and grille size opening.Not to mention the color of the car.We have concluded it to be the Aussie daytona.But first glance at the grille .I knew I seen it somewhere before

Just to be clear, I don't think it's the Aussie Daytona at all.   

The guy, Monk, who bought the Daytona and took it down to Australia was a well known customizer. He ran a entire business doing it in the '70s. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt he would have taken all the effort to import a car from the U.S., do all that work, then let it rot in a barn. Not to mention it was the only freakin' Daytona in Australia, so I'm sure a long list of people would have loved to own it. Even in the late '70s when Monk stopped driving it, he stored it inside his shop starting it often.

[nascarxx29]

I think its highly coincedental that 2 same color daytonas with black interior black stripe .Would also have the identical turn signals location placement .And be bellow the headlight doors.And type of grille construction .Wasnt this daytona owned by 2 of the Monk family father and son

[tan top]

I think its highly coincedental that 2 same color daytonas would have turn signals bellow the headlight buckets.A and that type of grille.

yeah  ..  been thinking also ....how tight it is to the wall , looks like the driver stuck his head out to get it that close ,     so it could be the RHD Daytona  .........

[nascarxx29]

  Orange pictures I posted show the driving lights no a pillars and front wheel opening trim.And grille of same type of construction .And rear wheel openings modified.Just specualtion it maybe the before mods to same car

[Aero426]

I think its highly coincedental that 2 same color daytonas with black interior black stripe .Would also have the identical turn signals location placement .And be bellow the headlight doors.And type of grille construction .Wasnt this daytona owned by 2 of the Monk family father and son

I don't see any turn signals on the bottom of the nose below the headlights of the derelict car.
I see rows and rows of venting louvers on the bottom of the nose of the derelict car that are not both photos of the Aussie Daytona.  

As I see it for them to be the same car, AND the derelict photo taken FIRST,  they would have had to repair the louvers under the nose, and then knocked new holes for turn signals.   That doesn't make sense.

The grille construction is not the same as the derelict.  The size does not appear the same.  Count the number of grille bars on the derelict.  The opening is larger on the top side of the nose.   On the Aussie car, it's equal on top and bottom.

I don't see a right side mirror on the derelict.

[pettybird]

hey Doug it's orange and black--it HAS to be the same car.  I hear those are pretty rare 

[tan top]

I think its highly coincedental that 2 same color daytonas with black interior black stripe .Would also have the identical turn signals location placement .And be bellow the headlight doors.And type of grille construction .Wasnt this daytona owned by 2 of the Monk family father and son

I don't see any turn signals on the bottom of the nose below the headlights of the derelict car.
I see rows and rows of venting louvers on the bottom of the nose of the derelict car that are not both photos of the Aussie Daytona.  

As I see it for them to be the same car, AND the derelict photo taken FIRST,  they would have had to repair the louvers under the nose, and then knocked new holes for turn signals.   That doesn't make sense.

The grille construction is not the same as the derelict.  The size does not appear the same.  Count the number of grille bars on the derelict.  The opening is larger on the top side of the nose.   On the Aussie car, it's equal on top and bottom.

I don't see a right side mirror on the derelict.

hmmm yeah i see what your saying , good points ... look at the right side headlight door ,  looks to be out of alignment in the same way   

[Ghoste]

And its not unreasonable in the least to assume that once the grille opening was already altered, that a guy who was a known car customizer wouldn't change the grille bars over time.  After all, not leaving things as they are is the very essence of being a customizer.

[Old Moparz]

Regarding the grille, & aside from the fact that they are different, the Australian one appears to be symmetrical in size but not the other one. The leading edge of the Australian grille, or the bend point, divides the grille into two, equal, halves. The other grille has more area above the leading edge of the nose cone than below & is not symmetrical. I know that each photo was taken at a different horizontal angle, but the vertical angle is almost exact & shouldn't effect how much grille area is above or below the leading edge. I wish the photo of the "Iranian" car was larger & clearer.

[fc7_plumcrazy]

Hi,

please keep in mind, too that there have been a lot of american cars in the midle east bach in the 60s/70s.
Till the late 70s (1979) the Iran with the Schah was pro american. Also states like the Libanon have been rich countires til the war came in the late 70s. We do have in germany three Challengers which were sold new in Libanon and I have a friend with a 71 GTX in FJ6 which was sold new in Kuwait and imported to sweden in the late 70s. The middle east wasn't always "bad" to west.

Carsten

[nascarxx29]

Also anyplace a serviceman went.His car got a free ride to where ever

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Regarding the grille, & aside from the fact that they are different, the Australian one appears to be symmetrical in size than the other one. The leading edge of the Australian grille, or the bend point, divides the grille into two, equal, halves. The other grille has more area above the leading edge of the nose cone than below & is not symmetrical. I know that each photo was taken at a different horizontal angle, but the vertical angle is almost exact & shouldn't effect how much grille area is above or below the leading edge. I wish the photo of the "Iranian" car was larger & clearer.

I agree... too many differences to be the same car IMO

In addition to the differences previously noted, notice the following:
1) Iranian car seems to have more horizontal clearance from the headlight doors & more vertical overlap with them.
2) Australian car has larger opening corner radii, Iranian car may not have radii on lower corners(?)
3) Added fog lights appear to be smaller on Iranian car.
4) Nose to fender seals not readily visible on Iranian car, but might just be covered with grunge.

Just my 

Allen

[nascarxx29]

Map out the turn signal measurement placement locations of the 2 what would be the odds if there exact.If it is 2 near indentical cars .They must have been on the same thought waves in turn signal placement  .And again same idea on driving lights .And same color car and black interior and black stripe .Is quite a coincedence in all those factors

[Aero426]

The car in the bottom photo appears to still have the standard rectangular Daytona turn signals behind the grille.    They certainly do not look round.

[nascarxx29]

What about on the ones lower down on nose bellow headlight door.Both car have this feature what about there measurement and placement dimensions.The grille variation its in the correct opening with a overlaping wrap around tubing around the outside.And not fitting in the stepped metal edge as the corect grille frame would fit flush

[Aero426]

What about on the ones lower down on nose bellow headlight door.Both car have this feature what about there measurement and placement dimensions

Dave, the Iranian car has no turn signals below the headlights.  Only louvers.   Also, you keep talking about the car having a black stripe.   It's not really visible in the photo to tell what it is, if there is one on the car at all.   If there is a black stripe, I sure can't see it.

[69_500]

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm not 100% sure it even has a wing on it. Appears to, but can't say for sure. The horizontal line in the picture could possibly be a frame to a door.

[Aero426]

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm not 100% sure it even has a wing on it. Appears to, but can't say for sure. The horizontal line in the picture could possibly be a frame to a door.

The German web article stated the wing was missing.

[69_500]

See what I get for not clicking on the german link and reading for myself huh.

[nascarxx29]

I see it doesnt have white interior .I also think a white decal would show a shade different.So it appaers black .If the added fog light running lights behind the grille block the standard TS lamps .And the square not original openings bellow the center of the headlights would be the turn signals??  

[xs29j8Bullitt]

What about on the ones lower down on nose bellow headlight door.Both car have this feature what about there measurement and placement dimensions.The grille variation its in the correct opening with a overlaping wrap around tubing around the outside.And not fitting in the stepped metal edge as the corect grille frame would fit flush

The lights or louvers seem to be different in size and mounted at very different heights.  Just below the leading edge of the nose on the Aussie car, and about 2 inches lower on the Iranian car...

[hemigeno]

Does this help any?  The perspective is a little closer to being the same.

[nascarxx29]

Im refering to the added on lights that mimick where the superbird turn signals would go if this was a superbird .What are those dimension from one to the other.The super charger used a light in that near location.But mounted them on the spoiler

[Aero426]

Im refering to the added on lights that mimick where the superbird turn signals would go if this was a superbird .What are those dimension from one to the other

We keep coming back to this.   Dave, where do you see turn signals below the headlights on the car in the photo below.  I see louvers for added cooling, but that's all.   

[nascarxx29]

Unless its my computer I see squarish cut outs in center line of headlight doors but further down.Do you see them on the Aussie daytona.Dont appear to be a cut clear clean hole.Where air would flow through.

[Aero426]

Unless its my computer I see squarish cut outs in center line of headlight doors but further down.Do you see them on the Aussie daytona.

They are like cooling slits.   There are no lamps mounted there on the Iranian car. 

I see the lamps on the Aussie car. 

Also, look closely at the signals in the grille of the lower photo.   Those appear to be regular Daytona signal lamps, not round driving lights. 

[nascarxx29]

If they are cooling slits.Ive never seem anyone put them there  .And with a little appearing gap around the insert slit whatever?.looks like a light up from behind with a just a little bit bigger opening to accomodate it

[xs29j8Bullitt]

If they are cooling slits.Ive never seem anyone put them there

Whatever they are, do you see the 2 inch difference in vertical placement?

[maxwellwedge]

What about on the ones lower down on nose bellow headlight door.Both car have this feature what about there measurement and placement dimensions.The grille variation its in the correct opening with a overlaping wrap around tubing around the outside.And not fitting in the stepped metal edge as the corect grille frame would fit flush

The lights or louvers seem to be different in size and mounted at very different heights.  Just below the leading edge of the nose on the Aussie car, and about 2 inches lower on the Iranian car...

The top of the grille almost looks like it is laying on top of about 2" of nose sheet metal...maybe.....not enough detail in the pic.

[Aero426]

The top of the grille almost looks like it is laying on top of about 2" of nose sheet metal...maybe.....not enough detail in the pic.

I agree.  It looks like there is another piece of metal below the top side of the grille.    Goober and Gomer definitely worked on the car.

[maxwellwedge]

Hey - Look closely at the windshield......Iran - Yes!

[nascarxx29]

It just never dawned on me they would be cooling vent holes slits etc .Living with wingcars that always ran hot .And lived in TX where I would perforate louvre and or remove the lower center valance on a superbird to help cooling issues.And probably would have taken same measures on a daytona  

[maxwellwedge]

The only thing holes/slits are going to cool that far off center is the inside of the headlight bucket area.

[xs29j8Bullitt]

If they are cooling slits.Ive never seem anyone put them there

Whatever they are, do you see the 2 inch difference in vertical placement?

[nascarxx29]

The only thing holes/slits are going to cool that far off center is the inside of the headlight bucket area.

I see the measurements Allen provided .But Im thinking as Jim on what good they are doing.Thats why recessed turn signals seemed more likely

The only thing holes/slits are going to cool that far off center is the inside of the headlight bucket area. Maybe if you hole sawed the Z brackets the air has a chance to better reach the radiator

[xs29j8Bullitt]

The only thing holes/slits are going to cool that far off center is the inside of the headlight bucket area.

I see the measurements Allen provided .But Im thinking as Jim on what good they are doing.Thats why recessed turn signals seemed more likely

The only thing holes/slits are going to cool that far off center is the inside of the headlight bucket area. Maybe if you hole sawed the Z brackets the air has a chance to better reach the radiator

Might be a couple more openings below the grille... Swiss cheese cooling!  See green arrows in picture below.

[Aero426]

The only thing holes/slits are going to cool that far off center is the inside of the headlight bucket area.

Yes, but not real surprising considering Goober and Gomer did the modifications.    It is not like there was a lot of thought that went into this stuff.  "Gee, we really didn't need holes there.  Oh well, too late now."   About the only thing that makes any sense is that the car was used in a hot climate "somewhere" and they did some "field modifications".

[autodynamics]

i think they both look like crap....

[notabird]

the grill on the Iran car looks like that Daytona at the Nats a few years back, I think it was a shelf from a refridgerator.

[FJMG]

   Maybe the slits were cut to accomodate a bumper mount?

[Ghoste]

Or maybe they were never intended to be functional at all, maybe the guy just thought they looked cool? 

[Old Moparz]

   Maybe the slits were cut to accomodate a bumper mount?

That idea isn't so far fetched.

[nascarxx29]

i think they both look like crap....

No argument there you said it

[OneBadSuperbird]

And going by the turn signal placement and grille size opening.Not to mention the color of the car.We have concluded it to be the Aussie daytona.But first glance at the grille .I knew I seen it somewhere before

Dave, what I'd like to know is how you go about making "conclusions" about something that you know absolutely nothing about.

Do you own the car?  No.

Do I own the car?  Yes.

Did you EVER have ANY communications with the previous owners?  No.

Did I ever have communications with the previous owner?  Yes, many times. 

The derelict car from the Mustang board is not the same car and it was never in Iran.  Case closed.

[nascarxx29]

I was more than aware your current Aussie daytona at the time Kevin Monks daytona existed as far back to the date May 1983.And saw its story again in Dec 2001 with contact info .I had already had a daytona before that time.Took no interest in this car for me or any other interested parties.Made no contact to seller

[OneBadSuperbird]

Hey Dave, cool stuff. 

Man, am I glad I took the plunge and bought the Aussie Daytona.  All Daytonas are special but then again, ya seen one orange with black tail Daytona, ya seen em all. 

This car is a blast no matter where it goes.  I need to get it out of hibernation and get it back out on the streets but all my efforts are on getting the red, white and blue Superbird finished and out on the track this season.  So maybe next summer, the Daytona will come back out to play. 

When it does come back out to play, it will no longer be lowered and will be back to a stock ride height and wearing the big fat set of radials I have for it that are wrapped around a brand new set of Torq-Thrusts that I've had waiting for it since before I even got the car in 2003!  I may even yank the numbers matching 440 and throw in the 440 that was in the red, white and blue Superbird.  That engine's getting freshened up and a little more cam and some head work and would make the 3.55 geared Daytona a real terror out on the highway from 80 right on up to 140 or better.  Fun out on the open road with no worries of trashing the original engine!

[tan top]

sounds good Onebad    any plans to change it back to LHD 

[nascarxx29]

Any more its harder to keep track of them.Especially when there are about the same color .I can eliminate another daytona from overseas this one isnt orange its R4 Red and white interior.And in Saudia Arabia

[OneBadSuperbird]

sounds good Onebad    any plans to change it back to LHD 

LOL!  Not in this lifetime. 

I've always said that I would never have gone through all the hassle of bringing the car home from clear across the globe if I was just gonna change it back to LHD and make it like every other Daytona you see.  This car has been RHD for 36 of the 40 years it's been around, ain't no way it's going back til someone else owns it when I'm dead and gone.

[tan top]

sounds good Onebad    any plans to change it back to LHD 

LOL!  Not in this lifetime. 

I've always said that I would never have gone through all the hassle of bringing the car home from clear across the globe if I was just gonna change it back to LHD and make it like every other Daytona you see.  This car has been RHD for 36 of the 40 years it's been around, ain't no way it's going back til someone else owns it when I'm dead and gone.

  yeah  true  .. if its been right hand drive for so long   

[Aero426]

Any more its harder to keep track of them.Especially when there are about the same color .I can eliminate another daytona from overseas this one isnt orange its R4 Red and white interior.And in Saudia Arabia

That car is not in Saudi Arabia.    He has spent some time working in Saudi Arabia, but his Daytona is here in the USA. 

[nascarxx29]

Ok thanks