Engine weights

[chargerrt]

I'm just curious as to how much the stock (from the factory, iron heads, etc) Mopar engines weigh in pounds.  I'd like to know how much a 318, 340, 360, 383, 400, 413, 426 Hemi, 426 Wedge, and 440 weigh if it's possible.  I don't really know where to look.

Chad

[chargerrt]

Actually, I believe I just found my answer here:

http://www.mopar1.us/engineweight.html

If you know a more exact number for any of these I'd still like to know.  Thanks!

[green69rt]

Interesting, not as much diff between the 440 and 400 as I thought.

http://www.mopar1.us/engineweight.html

[Troy]

None of those mention whether A/C is included. When you add A/C to a small block it gets real close to big block weight (probably more overall once you count the bigger radiator, additional size of the heater box components, hoses, etc.).

A more complete(?) list:
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/6engineweights.php

Troy

[green69rt]

None of those mention whether A/C is included. When you add A/C to a small block it gets real close to big block weight (probably more overall once you count the bigger radiator, additional size of the heater box components, hoses, etc.).

A more complete(?) list:
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/6engineweights.php

Troy

I didn't think about AC I was just looking for the long block weight.  On my restoration I was thinking about going the stroked 400 (stroked to about 440) instead of going for a straight 440 block because I thought I would save a lot of front end weight.  Both charts show that it is only 50#.  If that's the case, I will have to consider the trade off of a little weight against the cost diff and any difference in engine bay room.   My old 440 could be a bear to maintain, but the 400 will probably not be that much better.

[Troy]

None of those mention whether A/C is included. When you add A/C to a small block it gets real close to big block weight (probably more overall once you count the bigger radiator, additional size of the heater box components, hoses, etc.).

A more complete(?) list:
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/6engineweights.php

Troy

I didn't think about AC I was just looking for the long block weight.  On my restoration I was thinking about going the stroked 400 (stroked to about 440) instead of going for a straight 440 block because I thought I would save a lot of front end weight.  Both charts show that it is only 50#.  If that's the case, I will have to consider the trade off of a little weight against the cost diff and any difference in engine bay room.   My old 440 could be a bear to maintain, but the 400 will probably not be that much better.

Well, the weight difference isn't much but the height is. Sometimes is difficult to squeeze decent intake and carb on a 440 under a stock hood but you gain an extra inch or so with a 383/400.

Troy

[cdr]

50lbs on the nose is a lot, then,take of more for alum heads,water pump & housing,intake & you have a much better handling car.

[Troy]

50lbs on the nose is a lot, then,take of more for alum heads,water pump & housing,intake & you have a much better handling car.

Erm, maybe? I'd say 50 pounds of unsprung weight and/or in the wheel/tire combination are a whole lot more important than 50 pounds centered in that big lump in the engine bay. It seems like most people lighten up the engine then put oversized wheels/tires on their car and acceleration is worse (but they don't notice because they increased power with the modifications.

Remember, a decked out Charger R/T is about 3,900+ pounds so 50 pounds is a little over 1%. Ignoring the engine itself, starting with a 383 car comes with a lot more weight savings (torsion bars, rear springs, brakes, possibly smaller wheels, etc.). The heaviest things in the nose (excluding engine) are A/C, power steering, and the battery - all of which can be moved or removed. The A/C and PS are parasitic drag on the engine so it's a double whammy for performance.

Troy

[cdr]

50lbs on the nose is a lot, then,take of more for alum heads,water pump & housing,intake & you have a much better handling car.

Erm, maybe? I'd say 50 pounds of unsprung weight and/or in the wheel/tire combination are a whole lot more important than 50 pounds centered in that big lump in the engine bay. It seems like most people lighten up the engine then put oversized wheels/tires on their car and acceleration is worse (but they don't notice because they increased power with the modifications.

Remember, a decked out Charger R/T is about 3,900+ pounds so 50 pounds is a little over 1%. Ignoring the engine itself, starting with a 383 car comes with a lot more weight savings (torsion bars, rear springs, brakes, possibly smaller wheels, etc.). The heaviest things in the nose (excluding engine) are A/C, power steering, and the battery - all of which can be moved or removed. The A/C and PS are parasitic drag on the engine so it's a double whammy for performance.

Troy

our 2nd gen Chargers have about a 58% front ,42% rear weight  so 50 lb off the front is about 2% off the front, also  b blocks mass is lower ,so the center of gravity is also lower, a little here & there adds up!!!      My wheels are VERY light 

[Troy]

50lbs on the nose is a lot, then,take of more for alum heads,water pump & housing,intake & you have a much better handling car.

Erm, maybe? I'd say 50 pounds of unsprung weight and/or in the wheel/tire combination are a whole lot more important than 50 pounds centered in that big lump in the engine bay. It seems like most people lighten up the engine then put oversized wheels/tires on their car and acceleration is worse (but they don't notice because they increased power with the modifications.

Remember, a decked out Charger R/T is about 3,900+ pounds so 50 pounds is a little over 1%. Ignoring the engine itself, starting with a 383 car comes with a lot more weight savings (torsion bars, rear springs, brakes, possibly smaller wheels, etc.). The heaviest things in the nose (excluding engine) are A/C, power steering, and the battery - all of which can be moved or removed. The A/C and PS are parasitic drag on the engine so it's a double whammy for performance.

Troy

our 2nd gen Chargers have about a 58% front ,42% rear weight  so 50 lb off the front is about 2% off the front, also  b blocks mass is lower ,so the center of gravity is also lower, a little here & there adds up!!!      My wheels are VERY light 

Example:
Assume a 383 car weighs 3,900 pounds:
3900 *.580 = 2262 lbs (front)

and a 440 car is just that 50 pounds heavier (added 50 pounds to the total car weight as well):
(2262 + 50)/3950 = .585

So, it's about .5% change in bias towards the front and a very small change overall.
50/3900 = 0.01282
50/3950 = 0.01265

Move a 46 pound (Group 24) battery to the back and the bias drops to less than 57%.
(2262-46)/3900 = .568
Of course then you have to count the battery tray and wiring...

Your tires are much larger than stock. What's the total weight of wheel and tire in comparison to the originals? Is the overall diameter larger? Rotating mass (specifically getting it rolling) is important. If you're counting every little bit...

I'm actually agreeing that the low deck is a good option. With a stroker kit (and sometimes in stock form) they put out plenty of power, they are lighter, and they sit lower. However, they cost about as much as a 440 to build and give up some power. Is the weight enough to offset the power gains? Especially when there are other ways to lighten the car or shift the weight around? Tough call! The B will rev a bit higher if you need that sort of thing. I have a pile of 440s and only one 383 that I'll likely never use if that says anything. Secretly I want to build a stoker B block though...

Troy

[cdr]

my 512 is built out of a 400.

[green69rt]

Ok, you guys are arguing back and forth and it's really not a problem, I like it.  I kind of got my inspiration from CDR.  50# doesn't sound like much, but...I'm going to be starting from scratch so here my thinking.  Get a 400 block, stroke it to 441 ( I saw a kit somewhere), aluminum intake, heads and pump housing.  Not looking for a race car.  I get a little more room under the hood to work with and close to the same performance as a 440.  Plus I get a little less weight on the front.  If I really wanted max cubes and max HP the the 440 would be the obvious choice.  The 400 stroked sounds right for me.

The original intent of this thread was to pinpoint the fact that the 383/400 is not radically lighter than the 440.  In the end, if all I can find is a 440 block then so be it, but a 400 is, also, a good starting point for me (if it's available.)  40 years ago I wouldn't have even considered it.

[cdr]

Ok, you guys are arguing back and forth and it's really not a problem, I like it.  I kind of got my inspiration from CDR.  50# doesn't sound like much, but...I'm going to be starting from scratch so here my thinking.  Get a 400 block, stroke it to 441 ( I saw a kit somewhere), aluminum intake, heads and pump housing.  Not looking for a race car.  I get a little more room under the hood to work with and close to the same performance as a 440.  Plus I get a little less weight on the front.  If I really wanted max cubes and max HP the the 440 would be the obvious choice.  The 400 stroked sounds right for me.

The original intent of this thread was to pinpoint the fact that the 383/400 is not radically lighter than the 440.  In the end, if all I can find is a 440 block then so be it, but a 400 is, also, a good starting point for me (if it's available.)  40 years ago I wouldn't have even considered it.

it's just a friendly discussion. no malice on my part & I am sure Troy feels the same.   

[Mike DC]

 
I've said it before - I don't buy the 50 lbs difference between the B and RB wedges.  That has to be differently equipped engines being compared. 

Comparing the raw blocks, the B and RB are more like 15 lbs difference than 50.  This has been tested more than once.   And elsewhere in the big engine weight chart (that everyone repeats) they list a 361" B-block to be 650 lbs, not the 620-lb figure the report for the 383/400.   


I suspect the B and RB are probably within 30 lbs of each other at most.  Once you switch to aluminum intakes and put similar Chinese stroker crank assys inside both, the difference won't be much more than the block weights.     

[green69rt]

Ok, you guys are arguing back and forth and it's really not a problem, I like it.  I kind of got my inspiration from CDR.  50# doesn't sound like much, but...I'm going to be starting from scratch so here my thinking.  Get a 400 block, stroke it to 441 ( I saw a kit somewhere), aluminum intake, heads and pump housing.  Not looking for a race car.  I get a little more room under the hood to work with and close to the same performance as a 440.  Plus I get a little less weight on the front.  If I really wanted max cubes and max HP the the 440 would be the obvious choice.  The 400 stroked sounds right for me.

The original intent of this thread was to pinpoint the fact that the 383/400 is not radically lighter than the 440.  In the end, if all I can find is a 440 block then so be it, but a 400 is, also, a good starting point for me (if it's available.)  40 years ago I wouldn't have even considered it.

it's just a friendly discussion. no malice on my part & I am sure Troy feels the same.  

I took it as friendly,  that's a problem with email, text etc.   You can never get "tone of voice" into the conversation.  Like I tried to say, this is all good and I like the discussion and help.  These type of threads help clarify my plans.

As far as engine weight, I was expecting 100# or even 120# diff!  Now I see that is not so.  50# or less makes it less important, especially when you consider the weight reductions avaiable thru heads, intake, etc.   Of course then I'll add it all back on with big rubber!!

[Troy]

I have to say a few years ago I had a 2005 5.7 Hemi from a truck and that thing was scary on my hoist. No idea what it weighed but is wasn't light! I still have a 5.9 Magnum (lighter already than an LA 360) that also has aluminum heads and intake. I really want to stroke it and put it in a Charger but that's time and money I don't have and there are three running 440s and a 383 sitting around my garage waiting to go in cars. I wish I had the ability to put one of each into something just to see what could be. I need a test mule!

I try to weigh random parts but my scale doesn't go high enough for blocks. I do have one totally bare 440 and a 340 (and a 351 Cleveland) so maybe I'll see what the limit is.

All my comments are in good fun. There's a LOT to a car and all the pieces have to work together or it's just a big pile of frustration.

Troy