Question.

[bigcountry]

I own an un-restored 1969 Charger S/E, 383, auto, console.  I bought this car to make a General Lee.  This is the car that got me into cars (General Lee).  I hear there is a lot of dissent toward General Lee owners from the Mopar community.  I have heard coments such as "Waste of a good Mopar.", "Waste of a good restoration.", "Waste of money." However, I feel there would be a lot less unrestored, still hidden and just plain junked Chargers(68-70) if not for the cult following of the General Lee.  Since this is a Charger forum, I would like to know how you all feel about this topic?  I have thought about it over and over and I feel like I owe it to myself and the General Lee to build it as such.  What do you think?

P.S. New to the forum.

[jb666]

I own an un-restored 1969 Charger S/E, 383, auto, console.  I bought this car to make a General Lee.  This is the car that got me into cars (General Lee).  I hear there is a lot of dissent toward General Lee owners from the Mopar community.  I have heard coments such as "Waste of a good Mopar.", "Waste of a good restoration.", "Waste of money." However, I feel there would be a lot less unrestored, still hidden and just plain junked Chargers(68-70) if not for the cult following of the General Lee.  Since this is a Charger forum, I would like to know how you all feel about this topic?  I have thought about it over and over and I feel like I owe it to myself and the General Lee to build it as such.  What do you think?

P.S. New to the forum.

Welcome! I see you came over from Big John's place 

I agree with your statement above, and to me saying a GL is a "waste of a Charger" is BS. Sure , they aren't everyone's cup of tea, but does that mean those of us that love them don't belong in the Charger community? I hope not.

At the end of the day it's YOUR car and you need to do what YOU think is right for yourself. 

[tan top]

Hello & welcome Big C     any pictures 

[captnsim]

Welcome to the site...   Start building that GL.    Post some pics lets see what your starting with  

[bigcountry]

Yeah, I found this place on a post from the Road Runner forum.  I have a few projects to do when I get home.  This one and the 69 RR.  But like I said before, the Charger was my original desire.  I'll get some pics up soon. They are stored in a barn for now, the pics are rough, but one day.....

[captnsim]

Hey we all gotta start somewhere. We'll get yeah from rough to buffed in no time...

[Mike DC]

I'm a severe GL nerd.  Here's the deal:


Most of the Mopar hobby doesn't HATE the General Lee per se, they're just really tired of the fad lately.  They're getting tired of taking their '68-70 B-body (of any kind) in public and hearing, "hey, that looks like the General Lee!" from random people.  They mostly feel that it's been overdone lately.   


(Funny how the timing of this "fad" perfectly coincides with the time when a whole generation of kids raised on the TV show all turned 30 and got some decent disposable income.  Anyone could have seen this GL popularity boom coming years ago if they'd just listened to the kids & teens in this hobby at the time.)



Now the GL fan community just isn't quite like the rest of the Mopar hobby.  There's certainly some big overlap between the two groups, but they aren't the same group. 

GL fans are still big car-guys for the most part, but they're also a group of comic/movie fanboys about an old TV show.  These GL replicas are basically huge rolling two-ton "prop replicas."  Sorta like when sci-fi/superhero fans make homemade costume parts to match the originals.


--------------------------------------------------------


There's something about the old car hobby that you've gotta learn:  No matter WHAT you build, GL-related or not, sooner or later someone will virtually always have something bad to say about it.

If you've got a real Charger R/T, there will be someone there to walk by it and say, "Oh, it's not a real Hemi car" or "that's too valuable, you shouldn't drive that thing on public roads like this!"  If you've got a cloned R/T, then someone will always be there to say "That's a fake!  You shouldn't do that!  You're trying to fool people."  (Even if you never made any attempt to hide the truth about the car's VIN plate.)  And if you've got a non-R/T just as it is, someone will be there to say "that's not valuable, it's not even a real R/T car." 

Get my drift here?  There is nothing you could build that would not get someone talking sh*t about it sooner or later.  If you make no mistakes in restoring it, someone will incorrectly insist that you did just because they invariably think they know more than you do.  There is NO AVOIDING this stuff with a decent classic car of any kind. 

(And GLs are the worst.  For some reason, EVERYONE thinks their fuzzy memories about the car are more reliable than a guy who spent $25K building his own GL.  It will drive you nuts if you let it.  You can build it out of a '69 Charger, and you will literally still get people telling you that you used the wrong car sometimes.  It's that bad.)



This is your life, your effort, your labor, and your money. 

Don't use a '69 Charger that is too rare or too-nice of an original survivor to start with, and just build what you really want out of it. 

The car provokes some reactions both good and bad.  But the vast, vast majority of the reactions are good.  Most of the bad ones are from people who are just jealous of the fact that you've got a decent '69 Charger.  (They all would rather think you just "stumbled onto it" too.  Nobody ever wants to admit that maybe you just worked hard, waited years, and earned it.)


---------------------------------------------------------------


Go see the "Confederate General Lee fan club" online.  They're a huge gathering point for GL/Dukes fans these days on the internet. 

[Mopar2Ya]

It's your car, you should do what makes you happy. If I was to buy an unrestored Charger I'd probably not make a GL, but I'd have no problem buying a GL already done. But then again I change my mind to often. lol  If it's a Mopar, & you're fixing it, that makes it all good. 

[skip68]

I'll say it like I always do.  IT'S JUST PAINT, WHEELS AND STICKERS, A PUSH BAR THAT BOLTS ON AND FAKE ROLL BAR IF YOU WANT.    Build that bad boy brother.       Oh yah, welcome to the site. 

[FlatbackFanatic]

Welcome! I agree with everyone else, its your car, do what you want to do with it. Some people will always have comments, but what the hell, who cares as long as your happy with it. Good luck

[rusty lee]

buid it    enjoy it.     post pics of it.   

[bigcountry]

I am pretty much convinced to build the General Lee.....now I just have to get a hold of another one to do in triple black.

[vancamp]

like others have said build what YOU want not what everyone thinks you should. to me a car is useless unless it can be driven rare or not, im not knocking the guys with the megadollar restorations that dont get driven but for me if I am to scared to drive it and use it for its intended purpose it kinda seems pointless and not fun anymore. if you want a general lee build it and dont let what others think stop you.

[69*F5*SE]

Build it how you want it.     Just do it some justice with a nice resto.   

[bull]

I have no desire to build a GL but I can see why someone would. The only thing that bothers me about GL clones is when people do a half-assed job or use the wrong year (no offense to anyone here). If you're going to do it, do it right.

[MoparManJim]

I have no desire to build a GL but I can see why someone would. The only thing that bothers me about GL clones is when people do a half-assed job or use the wrong year (no offense to anyone here). If you're going to do it, do it right.

FYI, there was 68 and 69's used on the show. So please define "correct" for me. 

If you watch the episodes, in some you can tell the 68's when the car hits somthings and the push bar hits the I piece and the area falls backwards to the '68 grill area. 

[dodgecharger-fan]

Mike hit it pretty well on the head..

While a GL is not what I want, I don't have any problem with them - at all. I like them. I just don't want one.

About the only thing that would get me concerned about a conversion to a GL is if the car you use is already something special - rare, survivor, interesting history, etc. I'd just hate for the hobby to lose something special.

Even then, it's still your call because it's your car.

[baullz]

Welcome aboard 

And I see no problem making a GL, it brings another Charger back from the junk heap doesn't it? 

The Dukes of Hazzard pretty much sparked the love for Chargers in me, I am not however building a GL with my current Charger (it will be orange though).  Some day I will do a GL, maybe.

But of course you will always have the haters around but you will have your haters with anything, so don't let those people sway you just do what you want.

And if you ever get those people that despise the GL because the show wrecked so many Chargers just tell them they are full of it because like you said how many people saved Chargers from the junkyard just because of the TV show.

[Ghoste]

I have no desire to build a GL but I can see why someone would. The only thing that bothers me about GL clones is when people do a half-assed job or use the wrong year (no offense to anyone here). If you're going to do it, do it right.

FYI, there was 68 and 69's used on the show. So please define "correct" for me. 

If you watch the episodes, in some you can tell the 68's when the car hits somthings and the push bar hits the I piece and the area falls backwards to the '68 grill area. 

They may have used them out of necessity but I think we would all agree that the GL was supposed to be a 69.  Unless you were trying to duplicate an episode where they were attempting to disguise that they had the wrong year, why?
For me personally, I don't care what you make into a GL but I understand where Bull is coming from.

[bull]

I have no desire to build a GL but I can see why someone would. The only thing that bothers me about GL clones is when people do a half-assed job or use the wrong year (no offense to anyone here). If you're going to do it, do it right.

FYI, there was 68 and 69's used on the show. So please define "correct" for me. 

If you watch the episodes, in some you can tell the 68's when the car hits somthings and the push bar hits the I piece and the area falls backwards to the '68 grill area. 

Correct would be '69 because it was meant to be a '69 whether they used '68s or not. That's an example what I mean by half-assed IMO. WB never left any 68 marker lights or taillights on their conversion cars. They tried to make them look like '69s because that's what the GL is supposed to be.

[RD]

restoring a charger to look like a general lee is restoring a charger still.  one more being recycled appropriately (i.e. back to being used on the streets: restoring is recycling).

good luck.

[Mike DC]

Correct would be '69 because it was meant to be a '69 whether they used '68s or not. That's an example what I mean by half-assed IMO. WB never left any 68 marker lights or taillights on their conversion cars.

Yeah, but WB also gave the car a bunch of interior tan shades that weren't the factory '69 tan.  But plenty of people would rather make their replica the way it was onscreen than use the factory '69 color now.  Same with rollbar configurations that didn't match any particular type of racing league.

Besides, if the GL was really the slammed together hickmobile racer like it was portrayed, it probably WOULD have junkyard-scrounged, wrong-year parts scattered all over it.  The Duke boys crunched the car's fenders & bumpers all the time and not just on the make-believe jumps.  I could make an argument that the stuff like smoothed over signals & missing badges are more true to the spirit of the thing than not.  Few early Charger NASCARs kept their year-correct signal lights & badges.

(And BTW, a few GLs actually did have the '68 round signals still present on the corners and just sprayed over with orange paint.)

------------------------------------------------


These fan-built GLs are basically giant "prop replicas."  It's much like a Star Wars fan who makes a copy of a SW character's prop costume, errors and all.

Or an assembly-line-accurate restoration that also duplicates the errors on the original cars. 

[MoparManJim]

I have no desire to build a GL but I can see why someone would. The only thing that bothers me about GL clones is when people do a half-assed job or use the wrong year (no offense to anyone here). If you're going to do it, do it right.

FYI, there was 68 and 69's used on the show. So please define "correct" for me. 

If you watch the episodes, in some you can tell the 68's when the car hits somthings and the push bar hits the I piece and the area falls backwards to the '68 grill area. 

Correct would be '69 because it was meant to be a '69 whether they used '68s or not. That's an example what I mean by half-assed IMO. WB never left any 68 marker lights or taillights on their conversion cars. They tried to make them look like '69s because that's what the GL is supposed to be. 

that is where you are incorrect my friend, If yo uwatch 2nd season I do belive it is that had Cale in it. You can clearly see the General Lee with a painted over 68 marker lights on the driver side. It's right on screen.   

They didn't reffer to the charger as a 69 charger, only Columbia did on the back of there vhs cases. On the show they reffered to the charger as a charger or a two coupe. I don't ever remembering hears a year mention of it   

[viper r/t]

I have no desire to build a GL but I can see why someone would. The only thing that bothers me about GL clones is when people do a half-assed job or use the wrong year (no offense to anyone here). If you're going to do it, do it right.

FYI, there was 68 and 69's used on the show. So please define "correct" for me. 

If you watch the episodes, in some you can tell the 68's when the car hits somthings and the push bar hits the I piece and the area falls backwards to the '68 grill area. 

Correct would be '69 because it was meant to be a '69 whether they used '68s or not. That's an example what I mean by half-assed IMO. WB never left any 68 marker lights or taillights on their conversion cars. They tried to make them look like '69s because that's what the GL is supposed to be. 

that is where you are incorrect my friend, If yo uwatch 2nd season I do belive it is that had Cale in it. You can clearly see the General Lee with a painted over 68 marker lights on the driver side. It's right on screen.   

They didn't reffer to the charger as a 69 charger, only Columbia did on the back of there vhs cases. On the show they reffered to the charger as a charger or a two coupe. I don't ever remembering hears a year mention of it   

Actually Jim, I believe in "Happy Birthday General Lee" it is called a '68, when they pick it up from the car lot or whatever   

[Mike DC]

Actually Jim, I believe in "Happy Birthday General Lee" it is called a '68, when they pick it up from the car lot or whatever

True dat.  I've always wondered whether that error was intentional or not.  (The character saying it was an indifferent junkyard owner who didn't want the car.)



 

[bigcountry]

All GLs had the tale-tale I -beam in the grille, whether it was intentional or not, 1969 is the only year that grille was used.  The original three GLs used in th pilot episode all where 69s. So in order to keep them all the same in later episodes, they all had to have the 69 I-beam in the grille.  Later in the show the marker lights where removed/covered/deleted all together.  In the first episode the original car had the chrome/stainless rocker panel guards between the wheel wells and the vinyl top moldings (referred to as the check mark trim by some) were still present on the rear quaters.

[Mike DC]

WB just expected the mechanics to deliver a set of cars that were all visually identical on the finished 35mm film. 

What cars/parts/compromises/changes that it took to accomplish that . . . the producers didn't know or care.  They left that up to the discretion of the mechanics. 


 

[bigcountry]

Exactly...That is the reason for the I-beam grilles on all of the cars since that was the frist one used.  However, I have seen several 70 chargers as GLs, not correct, they didn't even use a single 70, all of the shows cars were 68 and 69s. I have even seen a few 71s and a 72 painted up like the GL...not even the same body lines.

[68coronetGLwannabe]

70 not correct but tons of fun!   I say build it and  have some fun.

[Charger-Bodie]

I say build it into whatever you want!!!

[400/6/PAC]

I say build it into whatever you want!!!

[Mike DC]

I will say this, though - if you're on the fence about doing the full GL job or not, then you might wanna hold off.  Having a full-blown GL uniform on the car carries its own set of side effects.  1969 Chargers are neon signs already, but a GL is in a class of its own.


-----------------------------------------------


You're not gonna get lynched for the flag or anything like that.  There's surprisingly little problems with this part.  Even people who otherwise might bitch about a big rebel flag, they still seem to cut you some slack because of the TV character connection.



But the GL paint basically makes you "onstage" whenever you're out in public with it.  It's not for someone who can't handle being the center of attention (which is not aways fun).  You'll be answering the same 5-10 questions and assumptions about you & the car perpetually.  So you'd better be prepared to take it in stride every single time. 


And if you act like a jerk to someone who wants to talk to you about it, or if you get reckless & cut off someone else on the road in your area . . . that same person might spot the car in a Wal-Mart parking lot 3 years later and chew you out for it.  (Or just key the car if you're not around.)  The "onstage" factor is in effect all the time, regardless of whether you're in a good mood or not.   




And for some reason, the car is everybody's "buddy."  which means they don't hesitate to touch it like they would a normal car.  The idea that it's someone's private property just doesn't even register with people a lot of the time.  I'm serious about this.  You'll find people doing things to your GL when you're not looking that they probably wouldn't dare do to a scruffy 1992 minivan. 




Just some things to think about before you spray the orange paint.

[bigcountry]

Thanks for the advice/info.  There was actually a guy in town I had talked to who had a GL and he said his car had been keyed three times in the five years he owned it.  I think I can handle the attention, if not.....I'll drive it only when I am in a good mood, otherwise I'll drive my Road Runner once it is finished.

[Mike DC]

Yeah, it's a factor. 

When I had my GL assembled & on the road I didn't get people keying it and crap like that much.  People basically seemed to like it.  But they also didn't always respect the fact that it wasn't some kind of public property. 




The best thing I could tell you is don't go into it thinking you're gonna keep a GL flawless.  Not both flawless AND enjoyed in public.  It's out of character with the car to be that careful with it, and it takes too much of the fun out of it. 

I mean, even just climbing into the windows regularly will start messing it up - It'll start tearing up the door's chrome trim & paint, and even ripping the vinyl on the top corner edge of the seatback.  (And don't even get me started on the side effects of sliding across the hood.)


People love seeing the character of the GL brought to life.  But they usually find it a lot less cool when the owner indignantly refuses to spin the back end out in a gravel parking lot for fear of chipping the paint behind the wheelwells.  If that's how you're gonna be about it, then maybe you wanna hold off on the door numbers & flag.

 

[charger_cody]

OK here is my opinion. I see it like this, say you was driving down the street and you see a 69 se that is painted plum crazy purple and you think, oh my I havent seen to many like that. But you drive down the other street and find one that is a GL clone, I would think oh man i've seen many of those. I mean i will bet more than not the people who looked at this has either owns a GL or used to.

Better to be unique than like everyone else.

But hey if the GL is what you want then hey, go for it. 

Dakota

[Mike DC]

     
A few years ago a GL was pretty unique.



I had a GL replica before it was cool (I'm talking even before the TNN re-runs of the show a decade ago).  I'll still have a GL long after it falls from coolness again in the future.  People can call guys like me "trendy" for being into GLs right now if they want to. 
 
Now, where do I get off begrudging other GL fans for crashing the party later than I did?  Many of them wanted to build a GL "before it was cool" too, they just didn't have the resources. 



(Hell, there are even some younger guys who were children DURING the 1990s TNN re-runs, and NOW they're young adults trying to put a Charger together!)
 

[teamroth]

I know of a great shop in Houston that could help you out...Just kidding.
Wlecome aboard brother.

[Mike DC]

I know of a great shop in Houston that could help you out...Just kidding.

LOL

[mauve66]

I mean, even just climbing into the windows regularly will start messing it up - It'll start tearing up the door's chrome trim & paint, and even ripping the vinyl on the top corner edge of the seatback.  (And don't even get me started on the side effects of sliding across the hood.)


People love seeing the character of the GL brought to life.  But they usually find it a lot less cool when the owner indignantly refuses to spin the back end out in a gravel parking lot for fear of chipping the paint behind the wheelwells.  If that's how you're gonna be about it, then maybe you wanna hold off on the door numbers & flag.

 

now thats funney

[Matthan]

GL are Sweet it's your car do what you want to it.!!!!!!!!!

[Chad L. Magee]

Mike hit it pretty well on the head..

While a GL is not what I want, I don't have any problem with them - at all. I like them. I just don't want one.

About the only thing that would get me concerned about a conversion to a GL is if the car you use is already something special - rare, survivor, interesting history, etc. I'd just hate for the hobby to lose something special.

Even then, it's still your call because it's your car.

I agree with DodgeCharger-Fan on this one, no sense modifying a rare Charger when there are alot more common 69s still out there to start with.....

[MoparManJim]

Mike hit it pretty well on the head..

While a GL is not what I want, I don't have any problem with them - at all. I like them. I just don't want one.

About the only thing that would get me concerned about a conversion to a GL is if the car you use is already something special - rare, survivor, interesting history, etc. I'd just hate for the hobby to lose something special.

Even then, it's still your call because it's your car.

I agree with DodgeCharger-Fan on this one, no sense modifying a rare Charger when there are alot more common 69s still out there to start with.....

And I will agree with both of you on that note as while. 

[bigcountry]

It's not anything special besides being a 69 Charger.   It is a 383, console shift auto, the build sheet says is was green with white interior.  The original white interior has been painted black and is starting to show through.  It needs floor pans and a full trunk.  It needs a lot of work on the windshield channel. It has a chain welded to the frame and bolted to the engine block, set of aftemarket rear shackles and American Racing rear wheel with 10" drag radials.  I'm pretty sure it was a track car at one time, not professionally but someone's hobby.  The engine(not original) ran when I pulled it, but had a broken rod.  So no, it's not a rare numbers car or survivor car, I don't think I could even make a nice (survivor or resto) Charger into a GL.  That's part of the reason I got such a project.....so I wouldn't feel bad about doing a GL build to a "good" car.

[Mike DC]

 
Sounds perfect for a GL project.  If anyone gives you sh*t about the GL job later, just show them pics of it before you started. 



(BTW, the chain holding the engine is a little more "real-GL-correct" than you might realize.  Put a Charger 4-5 feet into the air, and the iron big block has a tendency to crush motor mounts on landing.)

 

[KS71owner]

Build it how you want it.     Just do it some justice with a nice resto.   

It's your car, do whatever you think makes you happy with it. When I first got mine I considered going with the vintage NASCAR Petty scheme for quite a while. If I ever get another Charger I may still do that.