Better n' Stock 440 Magnum

[426HemiCharger]

My Charger has a seized 440 that came out of a '77.  I want to build a brand new 440 from a Mopar Block, camshaft, crankshaft whole new engine.  Since I want a better 440 I want to put in Six Pack Internals.  I am new to building and engine so can I get some pointers, tips, help and tell me what you think?  I apprecate the help.

[BigBlockSam]

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

1969.5 six pack internals or 1970 six pack internals ?  They are different....     The 69.5 (think six pack road runners) used stock 440 connecting rods and crank - the later six pack motors needed a thick balancer with counterweights...   

Anyway - why not just rebuild the seized engine ?  why go with a new block and all that jazz ?   for the same cost machine the block, order a stroker kit, and make it look stock ?   

[426HemiCharger]

Sorry but that engine is cast to January 20th 1977 it's not right to have the engine of another car in yours... and no its not the same as putting in a new engine, it does not have a VIN on it.

[Rolling_Thunder]

.....   so grind the VIN off the block   


I mean hey its your car - your decision        

If you want a better than stock 440 I would still go with a stroker kit 

[mauve66]

where you at and what are you doing with the seized 440???
unless your trying to build  a "correct" 440 6pak motor i wouldn't even use the original 6pak stuff as the rods were waaaaaay too heavy, alot better parts out there for a "better than stock 440"

if the 77 car is not available why the concern over the date on the block and it "being in the wrong car", i would be willing to bet that more than 50% of our hobby doesn't have the original motor in it, unless again, you are trying to build a "correct" car............
your car do what ya want but..................................

[BigBlockSam]

as the rods were waaaaaay too heavy

  very true  , nothing wrong with a 77 motor . just bring the compression up , good intake and headers . they work well.  better than stock .Rene

[mally69]

 

[Challenger340]

I'm in the same camp here as many others, except for some numbers and casting dates, NOTHING wrong with the 1977 Engine as a "core" for a good rebuild.

Depending upon what you want, or "how much", It's pretty much childsplay these days to get streetable 475-500 hp/trq, or MORE, with "Basically" the addition of Pistons, Rod Bolts, Heads(Eddy or Stealth), Cam, Intake & Carb, incorporated while rebuilding, even when just with the "standard" 440 inch stuff(non-stroker).

We all have our preferences, I do also.
I still prefer an earlier "Forged" Type "stock" 440 Crank, over the later "Cast" type pieces as your 77 has, (balancing reasons), but other than that, it's fine as a starting point.

You can spend money until the cows come home, ie; parts, pieces, strokers, etc.,  thats your perogative.
All I'm saying is I wouldn't get too hasty, to turn your nose up at that seized 77 440 core, until you've better decided just what you REALLY want in the final product.

Bob out.

[BB1]

No better way to waist money, believe me I know. 

[Chatt69chgr]

Be easy on him guys.  He's 15 years old.  You want to build a "better" 440.  You need to say what your financial status is and what "better" means.  What are your goals?  Then the folks here can help you.

[mauve66]

answer is the same no matter what the age.......................
my chareger still has the same block but if i had the money i would toss it in a heartbeat for a stroker, its not a rare car that NEEDS a #'S matching engine to retain value

[firefighter3931]

Build the 77 440 


Ron

[426HemiCharger]

How do I know whether the engine being seized is permanent or not?

[mauve66]

the shop will punch out the piston and most rebuilds will have to do an overbore anyway to clean up the cylinder walls and get rid of the ridge that builds up at the top of the cylinder, as long as the block didn't crack........ the shop can test for that also

[426HemiCharger]

Really?! Well since '77 440s are bored 4.31" I can overbore .010 and still get the stock size of 4.32" but what I am really concerned with is what if I have a magnaflux test conducted and it fails? What if the crank is broken (its cast anyways) what if, what if... the list goes on and on and on so I'd rather start fresh with a new block.  But what about the 440 Six Pack interals in a regualr 440 Magnum.  Someone in an earlier post said it would be too heavy, true?

[mally69]

Really?! Well since '77 440s are bored 4.31" I can overbore .010 and still get the stock size of 4.32" but what I am really concerned with is what if I have a magnaflux test conducted and it fails? What if the crank is broken (its cast anyways) what if, what if... the list goes on and on and on so I'd rather start fresh with a new block.  But what about the 440 Six Pack interals in a regualr 440 Magnum.  Someone in an earlier post said it would be too heavy, true?

To best answer part of this statement, just take your engine to a machine shop let them UN-seize it for you and let them tell you what is good and what isn't, Then go from there with what you want to do with it and how much you want and or can spend  on it........... All you doing with your ( what if's ) here is guessing and its not going to do any good to guess.  440sixpack 440 mag and a 440 all used the same block all those internal's will work in any 440 block.

[YGBSM]

Have you looked at new block prices?  I'm not aware of any street-friendly, brand-new 440 block for less than $2800.  That's a lot of money when fully tested, honed, bored, and prepped "old" 440 block costs less than $1000.

Now, if anyone knows of a new 440 block that can be had for less than $2000 please let me know!!

[426HemiCharger]

Moparts racing has a correct 4-bolt main block for $2499

http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/blocks.html

[Challenger340]

Really?! Well since '77 440s are bored 4.31" I can overbore .010 and still get the stock size of 4.32" but what I am really concerned with is what if I have a magnaflux test conducted and it fails? What if the crank is broken (its cast anyways) what if, what if... the list goes on and on and on so I'd rather start fresh with a new block.  But what about the 440 Six Pack interals in a regualr 440 Magnum.  Someone in an earlier post said it would be too heavy, true?

To best answer part of this statement, just take your engine to a machine shop let them UN-seize it for you and let them tell you what is good and what isn't, Then go from there with what you want to do with it and how much you want and or can spend  on it........... All you doing with your ( what if's ) here is guessing and its not going to do any good to guess.  440sixpack 440 mag and a 440 all used the same block all those internal's will work in any 440 block.

Well said !

You can "what if" it to death, but until it's dis-assembled and assessed, no point.

Also, the stock 1977 "ly" Rods are fine for a "better than stock" 440 magnum, with the addition of some good Rod Bolts ie; ARP or others.

[YGBSM]

Moparts racing has a correct 4-bolt main block for $2499

http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/blocks.html

That page was last updated 6/07- a year-and-a-half ago.  I don't know if that block is still available; it's not in the current Mopar performance catalog.  Also, the part number indicates that it was built by Cummins.  That makes me wary of the quality, as Cummins built some crate engines that were turds.  The only blocks in the current Mopar performance catalog are Siamese bore (some people are running these on the street).  Mancini Racing has a 2-bolt main block finished bored at 4.32 for $2750. 

Still a lot of money to spend on a block when you can get a reconditioned 440 block AND a cool set of Edelbrock aluminum heads for the same money.   

[426HemiCharger]

Thanks I didn't know.

[BigBlockSam]

$2499

for that much you can have that 77 440 totally rebuilt .

[426HemiCharger]

That engine would be tired because it only made 205hp when new I only would expect 185hp if rebuilt.

[mauve66]

it can be rebuilt to make alot more than that, the HP was down in the late 70's due to lowering compression, easily fixed now days, just cause you rebuild that block doesn't mean it has to have the exact same internals

[Rolling_Thunder]

That engine would be tired because it only made 205hp when new I only would expect 185hp if rebuilt.

just rebuild it...     new pistons at zero deck (10:1 compression), stock crank, mild cam, stock rods, intake, carb, stock manifolds, gasket match the heads and intake...     400+hp for  < $3000