six pack or no six pack that is the question

[Pistolpete]

Hey guys just hired a guy to rebuild a 440 for me - couple of questions.......

1) is it worth putting a 6 pack on a non original 6 pack car? It is an original 440 4 spd car - non numbers match now though - what is a 6 pack worth these days, I'm told I can get a full OEM "kit" around $2000??

2) what is the criteria for a "date coded" engine? the build date of my car was Oct. 13, 68 (69 Charger R/T) I've heard differing stories that as long as the engine is dated within 6 weeks (before or after) of the car it is considered a date coded set up??

[Shakey]

An engine with a date code six weeks after the cars build date would not be a correct.

As far as a six pack for your car - it's totally up to you.  

IMO, I would take that '69 Charger R/T and build as close to factory specs as possible.   You have two build sheets to go by.   In the end, the car will be worth more than that of a Charger with options that were not offered by the factory.

If I wanted to take a Charger, do a custom paint, put a pistolgrip and add a six pack, I would get a "dime a dozen" 383 Charger and build it the way I'd want it.

Again, Pete, totally up to you.

[Brock Samson]

 if you dont need the extra ponies for racing and you aint into the added expense which is considerable and the occasional carb tweaks you wont really miss it..
i decided to skip it till i win the lottery... if you just want a good running street car it's not really helpful and you can always add it later...

[Ghoste]

The only thing to top it for visual speed is a Hemi.  You can get better performance from a single four and a good intake so the only real reason for doing it outside of a factory 6 Pack car is looks.  It's a pretty expensive way to get oohs and aahs when you pop the hood.

[dkn1997]

visual speed.....I really like that term.

[Troy]

If you're worried about "date coded" engines then I'd skip the 6 pack altogether since it wasn't available on a Charger in 1969. They certainly look cool but it's immediately obvious to most Mopar people that it doesn't belong. I'd save the money (they aren't exactly cheap - especially for original parts) and just go with a simpler, reliable 4 bbl instead. I don't think you'll see much benefit from a performance standpoint if that's what you are after either. If you just want to be different/unique and have the money then go for it.

Troy

[BrianShaughnessy]

A six pack will probably get better gas mileage than a 4 barrel on the highway.   I got 13 last year.   It's definitely eye candy at the shows.   It's a lot of fun getting all 6 barrels opened up      It's also a bitch to keep tuned.   

May I just recommend that you decide what you'd like to do with your car...   You can either play with it or you can be a slave to the build sheet....    Deciding what you want to do will save you money either way.      None of us can make that choice for you.      

As for me...   I got a build sheet.. but I'll be damed if I know what it says      

[Ghoste]

It probably says 6 Pack, 5 speed, and 3:73 Dana wrapped in the color of your choice.

[Pistolpete]

Wow, hey ghoste you must be phsycic - thats exactly what my build sheet says - that settles it then!! 

I think I'm gonna stick witht the 4 bbl for now and see how that works for me, I can always get the 6 pack later I guess, as for the rest of it I'm gonna take a few artistic liberties with the car colour and shifter (pistol grip) but otherwise I think I'm gonna try and stick to the sheet.

for anyone thats interested....... the tear down is actually ahead of schedule and she should be heading out to the body shop in the next week or two ( I want the pro's doin' the metal work). I bought that 68 440 motor (sept. build date I think) and have a pro putting that together as well ....... I'll keep you guys posted on all the goodies I'm puttin in it. (hoping for an honest 450 - 475 HP)

I'll keep ya posted

[firefighter3931]

I bought that 68 440 motor (sept. build date I think) and have a pro putting that together as well ....... I'll keep you guys posted on all the goodies I'm puttin in it. (hoping for an honest 450 - 475 HP)

I'll keep ya posted

Cool, does that mean it's going on a dyno once completed ? I'll be interested in hearing what's going into this build...

Ron

[Pistolpete]

Yup, gonna try and get'er dyno'd when she's done.............can't wait!!

[69_500]

I say go ahead and swap on the 6 pac, its a definate jaw dropper. Even if its not stock, its like looking at a car with a HEMI in it that wasn't origionally a HEMI. It still draws a crowd, and it runs great.

[Ghoste]

69 Chargers already draw a crowd.  Is it worth 1000 dollars for eye candy which can only be seen when the hood is up?

[69_500]

In my opinion yeah its worth that extra draw dropping. I have thought long and hard about putting a 6 pac set up on my 500 just for better driving.

[BigBlockSam]

i have a 68 r/t with a sixpack on it, ok, it's not correct but it's alot of fun to drive. Rene

[Pistolpete]

Hey Sam,

have you always had the 6 pack? if not whats the biggest difference between the 4 bbl and your six pack as far as driveability?
I have never been in a 6 pack car but I hear the sound of all six barrels opened up is AWESOME!!!

[BigBlockSam]

Hey Pistol, cool porn name
this car has always had a six pack on it. i've been told that 6 packs can be a pain to tune  but mine has been trouble free. the 440 has a bigger than stock cam. it was installed before  i bought the car. the differance i feel about this car is when you stomp it. man! it's a rocket ship. thats like 1200 cfms when there all open. did'nt run as well with the stock ignition. then i put the msd ignition in and boy did she come to life.  it's alot of gas and ya gotta burn it . i miss her she's been in the bodyshop for a long time.  i hope this helps. Rene

[69_500]

I believe that the 6 pac was 1250 cfm, but a 1250 cfm rating of 3 2bbl carbs isn't the same as a 1250 rating for a 4 bbl carb. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but there is a difference right?

[firefighter3931]

I believe that the 6 pac was 1250 cfm, but a 1250 cfm rating of 3 2bbl carbs isn't the same as a 1250 rating for a 4 bbl carb. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but there is a difference right?

Actually it's 1350 cfm as rated by 2bbl standards. The 6-pack flows what a 940 cfm 4bbl would on the same bench. I like them but they can be a pain to tune...when they run right....they really run right !  

Pete, do the 6pack...you'll luv it, especially on a mild engine. Spec the cam out similar to the factory 6-pack cam in terms of duration/overlap and it'll be easier to tune.  

Ron

[Pistolpete]

Aw, man.........now I'm undecided again (worse problems to have I guess) 

I gotta admit the "visual speed" of a six pack  kinda gets me.........decisions, decisions

Sam, if you've got any pics of your set up could you post them? I see your side pic is that yours??

[69_500]

Thanks for the correction on the CFM rating of t he 6 pac. I wasn't sure if it was 1250 or 1350.

I know that every car I've ever worked on that has a 6 pac set up on it, ran great. They are a bit touchy to get tuned in, but once you get it, they are as easy to keep running as a single 4bbl. Not a whole lot of to do to keep them running, and running well I might add.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Thanks for the correction on the CFM rating of t he 6 pac. I wasn't sure if it was 1250 or 1350.

I know that every car I've ever worked on that has a 6 pac set up on it, ran great. They are a bit touchy to get tuned in, but once you get it, they are as easy to keep running as a single 4bbl. Not a whole lot of to do to keep them running, and running well I might add.

2 500 outboards and a 350 center.   I've heard of people using a 4412 carb (?) for a 500 center.   

Anyway my problem is frequent junked up needle / seats.. especially on the rear carb...  but I got the mechanical triple pumper 4782/4783 setup that doesn't have individual fuel filters like the regular vacuum setup.

[69_500]

So how long have you been running the set up on your car then? I haven't had a sic pac for a car personally just buddies. I don't get to work on their cars as much as my own, so don't know if they require more than a 4 bbl. But I don't recall any of them complaining about how their set ups were running after we tuned them. Not sure if they did any more tinkering with them after that or not.

[BrianShaughnessy]

I've been running this for 2 years or more.    A lot of people are lucky... some ain't.   My nickname isn't Lucky. 

They have their quirks and their good days and bad days...  but I like it anyway!     

[BigBlockSam]

howdy Pete
yes the motor in the side pic is the 440 in my  red plymoutrh  39 coupe pictured on the bottom of the page. i've had my six pack set up for about 6 yrs. runs great. you can't beat the visual impact of the six pack. the only pics i have are before i started restoring the car. the air cleaner lid was one of the first things i restored. first picture is before i restored the lid second is restored. get the six pack. makes the car alittle more special. i'm building another 440 sixpack motor for the daytona but this one is alittle more serious.

[firefighter3931]

 

[firefighter3931]

Couple more of my 70 R/T 

[firefighter3931]

A buddy's v-code 60k mile survivor 

[Pistolpete]

wow, that does look awesome!! still got a month or so to make my decision so I'll have to think on it.
how many ponies does the six pack set up typically add to a build? anyone know??

[BrianShaughnessy]

OK... this got hijacked into a show yer 6 packs!   Well I can play that game too 

[cudaken]

 Pet, if in the budget I think you would love a 6-Pack. I sat up a friends AAR Cuda's and was not that hard. Car was a blast to drive as well.

Nothing like the look excpet maybe a Hemi.

                              Cuda Ken

[Pistolpete]

Cool,

you guys aren't making this easy, but I guess thats half the fun of these things.......anyway, once again how much horse power would one of these bring to the table?

Oh, and definitely if ya got 6 pack pics - Post'em .....its all good!!!

[firefighter3931]

Cool,

you guys aren't making this easy, but I guess thats half the fun of these things.......anyway, once again how much horse power would one of these bring to the table?

Oh, and definitely if ya got 6 pack pics - Post'em .....its all good!!!

The 6-pack option was good for 15hp as per the factory rating. 440-4bbl=375hp vs. 440-6bbl=390hp. The 6bbl setup really feels strong when those outboard carbs kick in....there is a noticable "kick in the pants" rush as compared to a single 4bbl. A stock 440 6-pack was faster than a street hemi in the same vehicle. Lots of bottom end grunt and tire frying torque.

Ron

[Dodge Don]

Go six pack. 

[69_500]

I would agree, there is definately a noticeable difference in how a 6 bbl, and a 4 bbl drives. To me the 6 bbl is a whole lot more fun.

[BigBlockSam]

Go six pack.   

To me the 6 bbl is a whole lot more fun.   

[71Charger500]

Go for the six pack.  There are some 4 barrels that can compete with them, but they will cost quite a bit too, and if you get the six back tuned just right, it'll haul.

My uncle had a Cuda with a 340 six pack.  It was badass.  Dumbass sold it.   Beautiful car, red and black, and fast as hell.

[Purple Haze]

Go sixpack Pete.   I just love the sound of the outboards when they open up.

[Johnny SixPack]

Yep.

You'll love it.



Gotta agree with Haze.

Nothin' like the sound.  

[Shakey]

I think that if we are going to be showing photos of the six pack set up, we might as well show some photos of the six pack set up - take off those air filters boys and show your stuff.

[BrianShaughnessy]

I think that if we are going to be showing photos of the six pack set up, we might as well show some photos of the six pack set up - take off those air filters boys and show your stuff.

Black Betty don't take her top off for just anybody! 

[Shakey]

I think that if we are going to be showing photos of the six pack set up, we might as well show some photos of the six pack set up - take off those air filters boys and show your stuff.

Black Betty don't take her top off for just anybody!  

Very good Brian 

[Johnny SixPack]

Gina won't show of her pack till she get's back.

Back from the machine shop that is.

[69_500]

Ah sounds like a bunch of women. Won't show all of it, just tease men.

I'll do some digging and see how many six pac set ups I have pictures of without the air cleaners on them.

[6670charger]

I had a 70 V-code up until about a year ago.  It was a beautiful car and went like hell.  It also got a lot of attention at car shows.  They are neat, but, also very expensive.  Unless you're racing the car, or just want the attention that a six-pack brings, it probably isn't worth the money you'll spend for the few extra horses.

[Purple Haze]

I think that if we are going to be showing photos of the six pack set up, we might as well show some photos of the six pack set up - take off those air filters boys and show your stuff.

Feast your eyes boys!

[Pistolpete]

sorry gang, just got ack from a week holidays,

now I think I'm back on the sixpack bandwagon.....

Love those pics.......awesome

[472 R/T SE]

I like them but they can be a pain to tune...when they run right....they really run right ! 


Ron

I can't agree more with Ron.  I lucked out as I have ZERO problems with mine and I'm not tinkering with it.   Seeings how it fries the tires thru first and second until it gets some speed going in second(sometimes that happens), starts up instantly and fast idles and always starts when I just hit the key.  MSD ignition box a must,IMO. 
I'm having a real hard time pulling the motor and putting the Hemi in since I love the car just the way it is.
The #'s block that's in it has broken motor mount ears pass. side so I gotta pull it.  It was a FUN summer when I drove it.

My buddy has a '71 Hemi Cuda Vert that I whipped on going down the freeway last summer too, that'll get the blood flowing.

[472 R/T SE]

Workin' that post count...I see a wedge comin'.

[RT DAVE]

nuff said. 

[Pistolpete]

OK, guys thanks for the info and the pics.............deal's done, bought a NOS 6 pk set up yesterday and just waiting for it to be shipped!!

DAMN I'm even more pumped about this resto! - didn't think that was possible!

I'll post some pics once everything arrives!

WOOHOO

[Shakey]

Where did you find an NOS 6 pack set-up?

Can I ask how much you paid for that bad boy?

Oh yeah, pics please!   

[Pistolpete]

here ya go!

Yes, I had to use e-gouge but its the only place I could find a "complete" package, no laughing at what I paid though...
I justified it by taking the cost of a 750 double pump and edelbrock intake (and accessories) off the price of the "kit" and figure there's what ? a $1000 difference?? Am I reaching here or what? LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4586983065&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[Shakey]

You can always justify anything!

BTW, with the exchange rate what it is, now would be the time to buy it.

Good score, look forward to seeing it installed.

[BigBlockSam]

good decision my friend   

[Khyron]

I hate you all.......

* Khyron goes out and hugs his small block

[HeavyFuel]

here ya go!

Yes, I had to use e-gouge but its the only place I could find a "complete" package, no laughing at what I paid though...
I justified it by taking the cost of a 750 double pump and edelbrock intake (and accessories) off the price of the "kit" and figure there's what ? a $1000 difference?? Am I reaching here or what? LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4586983065&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

I ran across an add for the same item from Bill Kay Chrysler while reading Mopar Action on a flight today.  Prices start at $1899

www.billkayparts.com

[Ghoste]

Aren't the intake and carbs the cheap part?  Seems to me the special air cleaner and oval filter come in around 10 million dollars or something don't they? 

[Pistolpete]

So I'm told, I actually did buy it from Bill kay, the fine print reads ... Starts at $1899....... but thats for 340 set up I'd assume cuz this was the best price I could find...

anyone in the market for an intake and 750 holley dp ?? 

[firefighter3931]

anyone in the market for an intake and 750 holley dp ??  

I'm interested in the carb...wanna trade for a rust free valance, lol ! Actually, the valance is allready yours, i just need to get it down there sometine soon.  

Congrats on the 6-pack....good score !     

Ron

[Pistolpete]

Sounds good Ron, Mike "Shakey" was talking about getting some of us T.O. area guys together for a beer....gee, I wonder what  we'd talk about??? LOL  actually, while we're on the subject, are there any Toronto area Mopar events that you can think of ??

BTW...looking for a good paint shop if you know of anyone, found an UNBELIEVABLE "metal only" body restoration shop if you're ever in the need! (this guy actuallly hand crafts body panels if need be, I went to his shop on the weekend and saw some of his work, I was floored...My buddy knows him so I booked him for my R/T right after christmas or as soon as he can fit me in)

[Shakey]

Hey Pete - I am always up for a beer!  However, with Ron being from Ottawa I am gonna guess that he might only be down during the weekends.  If Ron by some chance is here during the week, give me a days notice and I can be anywhere within an hours drive of the city (N, E, or West) at the end of the day.  We can pick a spot centrally located for all involved, have a "couple" of beers (RIDE program starts this week) and a bite to eat. 

If it is a weekend deal, this time of year is pretty tough as I have a full calendar until January.

As far as a good paint shop, I have heard of a few but never really pay that much attention as my car is done.  If it comes to me, I will let you know.  You might want to try and contact Dodge Don, another GTA member that has done plenty of homework on restoring Dodge Chargers.  A really good guy with a load of DIY tips.  He spends the majority of his time at the 1970 Registry but pops in from time to time to drool all over our '69's.     

[firefighter3931]

I'll let you guys know well ahead of time. I should be down there in the next 6-8 weeks. Pete, how soon do you need that valance ? It's rustfree but will need some dolly/hammer work to smooth it out.  

Ron

[Big Sugar]

Pete
Where are located .In T.O. or the Subs ??
 

Ron
Beeton On.

[Shakey]

Pete
Where are located .In T.O. or the Subs ??
 

Ron
Beeton On.

Hey Big Sugar, I didn't know you were from aound here!

Do you know Dick Hurtz from Beeton?

[Big Sugar]

Yeah Shakey !!
I posted you back in the spring on the old DC site, Where you at ?


Yeah Dick's still here, He's working at" Beeton Meats" right now ...Give him a call !

Ron

[Shakey]

I work in the West end of Toronto and live in the 'burbs, about 40 minutes West of the city.

We should all try and hook up one of these days.

[Big Sugar]

Shakey:
You talkin the K.W. area  or are you in the "Worth the Drive to A_t_" area ?



Ron

[Shakey]

Right on the shoreline, not quite to Hamilton!

[Big Sugar]

I'll PM you next time I'm in the area I've Got a sister in Oakville, Isn't there a Rob out your way with a 70 'ger

Ron

[Ghoste]

My brother is in Hamilton. Y'all are about three hours from me though (a lot closer than Ron but still).  Maybe I'll catch one of the Mopar shows there next year.  I bought my car in Mississauga so it'd be a homecoming for it.

[Pistolpete]

Sounds good guys,

Ron, I'm located north of Toronto in the newmarket/aurora area so if I remember correctly thats only about 45 mins. from Beeton?

Mike, I'll give you a shout (I think I still have your office #) and we'll definitely try and get the boys together soon, weekends are out for me too until the end of the year

Big Sugar and Ghoste, hope you can join us

BTW, spoke to the boys at Bill Kay Chrysler and apparently they have to wait until the money order clears before they'll ship so it looks like next week at the earliest.

also, found the ultimate body shop, this guy is a true artist and works in METAL ONLY, this guy has actually created body panels from scratch and you'd never know the difference - not many of these boys left I'd imagine.

[Big Sugar]

Sounds Good!!  I'm in, gimme a shout or PM me.

Ron

[Big Sugar]

Hey Ghoste whats that" Grand Bend" Show like ? Is it a Mopar only event ?



Ron

[Ghoste]

I think they have a Mopar Day with other makes welcome but I'm not sure.  There is a Mopar Nationals there but it's so called because Mopar sponsors it.  It's a good race though.  Big and fast.  It'll draw some of the heavy hitters on the IHRA circuit.