OVERHEATING ISSUE

[73TXRallye440]

Well not only did I do the carb swap this week I swapped the radiators. I took the stock one and replaced it with an AFCO 26" x 18.5" cross-flow Aluminum radiator with a massive puller fan that stays on anytime the car has the key on. Only issue was the radiator cap- it didnt come with one so i took the old one off the old radiator and put it on the new radiator. (Doesnt fit, 16 lb and I need a 20 lb) Anyway, ran it down the freeway, did well, exited, sat in traffic 5-10 mins (stop-go) and the needle got over to the "H". I weasled out of traffic and got moving again and it went back down. Man, now im back to square one. What else could be causing this? What degree thermostat should i be running? Anything else I can do to try and keep it cool?

[FLG]

Get the correct cap, if its not holding pressure it can easily cause an overheat 

Check your thermostat, i had a brand spanking new stat get stuck closed after 1 week of driving. Wasnt a chepo one either.

Finally check your water pump.

[73TXRallye440]

Get the correct cap, if its not holding pressure it can easily cause an overheat 

Check your thermostat, i had a brand spanking new stat get stuck closed after 1 week of driving. Wasnt a chepo one either.

Finally check your water pump.

thanks.

What temp thermo would you go with?

[73TXRallye440]

also if it happens to be the water pump==what aftermarket pump would you go with?

[FLG]

If you live in a warm climate go with a 160. If you want to just do some testing remove it all together and see how the temp goes.

[FLG]

If its a bad pump, id just buy a stock replacement. They work just fine.

[73TXRallye440]

If you live in a warm climate go with a 160. If you want to just do some testing remove it all together and see how the temp goes.

yea, it frequently gets >100 degrees here in the summer.

[73TXRallye440]

I am having the hardest time just finding a water pump for the 440 (mechanical) can someone help me out with a link?

[FLG]

http://www.440source.com/waterpumps.htm

www.rockauto.com

[73TXRallye440]

http://www.440source.com/waterpumps.htm

www.rockauto.com

dude, how freaky is it that i was about to post that EXACT link! Here is what I found (part #) 3751186 is the part number.

Can you answer me this?

Why would someone replace just the housing? Im seeing some ads just for the water pump housing, why not the guts too?

[73TXRallye440]

http://www.440source.com/waterpumps.htm

www.rockauto.com

hey would this water pump be correct from rockauto?

CARDONE SELECT Part # 5531121H
High Performance Pump; w/Heavy Duty Bearings for Performance and Long Life.
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 2 business days

[FLG]

Unless your going with an aluminum housing (lighter) or you got some different radiator and need to change your inlet hose from left to right, or simply because it got cracked something physical broke on it...theirs no need to.

[FLG]

That seems to be correct. Though i might go with the 440 source one or a Bosche or gates product. I just dont see the need for such a high price pump. But i wouldt go bottom of the barrel either. IMO make sure its is the pump before you change it. Besides a bearing siezing, the shaft snapping or the occasional one where someone didnt use anti-freeze for years and years and pump just rotted to nothing, they usually stay working.


Heres what you do. Get the right cap, get the car on a jack or ramps or a good angled driveway with the front of the car being the high spot. When its cool remove the cap run it with the cap removed until it gets hot and antifreeze starts comming out. This will bleed the block and radiator to ensure you have no little air pockets in the system which can cause overheating.

[73TXRallye440]

That seems to be correct. Though i might go with the 440 source one or a Bosche or gates product. I just dont see the need for such a high price pump. But i wouldt go bottom of the barrel either. IMO make sure its is the pump before you change it. Besides a bearing siezing, the shaft snapping or the occasional one where someone didnt use anti-freeze for years and years and pump just rotted to nothing, they usually stay working.

well someone at moparts made a good point, they said my puller fan might not be adequate enough and too much blocking the radiator---



(pardon the mess, its been dusty here)

If that is the case, how could I fix it?

[FLG]

Whats the CFM rating?

I have dual 11" Be Cool fans

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=BCI-75007&view=1&N=700+4294838842

Cost me a bit, but they work great.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

You said you did a carb swap...hows the mixture?  Too rich or lean will cause hot running as wel....how's the timing?

Also are you relying on the stock C-H gauge for a temp reading or are you runing a quality aftermarket to actually give you a temperature in degrees?

[73TXRallye440]

You said you did a carb swap...hows the mixture?  Too rich or lean will cause hot running as wel....how's the timing?

Also are you relying on the stock C-H gauge for a temp reading or are you runing a quality aftermarket to actually give you a temperature in degrees?

mixture and timing is the next thing im going to change.

Just bought a autometer gauge pod so im currently working on getting it installed. (Temp, Oil Pressure and Voltage)

[73TXRallye440]

Ok, question--

how do I get THAT nut thru the firewall??

[RECHRGD]

As said before, be sure your cap is sealing.  I used to have all kinds of overheating problems in traffic.  Just the aluminum radiator alone was not the fix.  The final fix was going to a Milodon high volume pump and t-stat, along with the aluminum radiator and a thermostatically controlled pusher fan.  And yes, be sure your timing is OK and your not running lean.  Bob

[73TXRallye440]

yea ive got a puller fan, just not enough room to put a pusher in there between the condesor.

[firefighter3931]

I've allways had good luck with the Milodon pumps....if it still overheats it's not the (milodon) pump's fault. Make sure your cap is sealing properly, replace if in question. You could also have a water pocket in the cooling system. One way to eliminate water pockets is to "Burp" the cooling system :

Get the front end up on Car ramps and start the engine up with the rad cap off. Trapped air pockets are usually in the back of the engine....raising the front end will force the air out of the cooling system...effectively bleeding it off. If your coolant level drops after the thermostat opens then you've fixed an air pocket.

Start with the new rad cap and "Burp" first before doing anything else.


Ron

[73TXRallye440]

thanks ron.

I will try that tomorrow.

What is one way I can tell if it's the water pump itself?

[greenpeas]

Looks like I have the same temp sending unit as you. I managed to get my mechanical water temp sender through the same hole as my speedo cable. The sender will just barely fit through the hole along with the speedo cable. I split & notched a grommit to seal up the hole.

[Joshs68]

I would check the mixture and timing first.

[73TXRallye440]

On the way over there it was running kinda hot, on the way home, it ran hot. Now it didnt get higher than the H, but still was hot. Talking to Stumpy I may just need to go back to the factory shroud and fan with a clutch. Here are two screen shots of my temp gauge. (Im installing an aftermarket one tonight)

(As a point of reference, with the stock radiator and stock fan and stock shroud, it always ran just to the right of the second white bar over by the C.)

On the way over there here is what the temp gauge showed--




Here is how hot it got on the way home, running 50 mph on the freeway (getting run over too)


Now im running 3.55's in the back (just verfied in but jacking up the Dana 60 and turning the tire an counting the driveshaft rev's) with a 25" tire. Im going to a 26.6" tire tomorrow.

But damn if this heat issue isnt bugging the hell out of me. Im taching 3000 RPM at 50 mph.

When I got home I popped the hood and grabbed the upper radiator hose going from the thermostat to the top of the radiator and it was hard as a rock. I let it cool, just went out there and it was squishy-- what does that indicate? Is my thermostat stuck? Im going to install an aftermarket thermo gauge tonight.

[FLG]

YOWWZZAAA

Thats hotttt. Try not to run her like that, that temps way above the 200* range.

Im thinking you have a stuck thermostat. Even if the fan wasnt enough at highway speeds it probably dosnt do much. I had a problem with a stuck t-stat, higher the RPM's hotter the engine got. Pull the t-stat and run the car and see how it is. 

[73TXRallye440]

I'm going down to autozone in a bit- should I go 160 or 180 t-stat?

[73TXRallye440]

got me a 180 t-stat and royal purple royal ice additive. will see what it does. old tstat and gasket took forever to get out/off.

[73TXRallye440]

alright just got back, still hacked off.

I replaced the thermostat, thinking that could have been it. Took off down the highway, temp needle is sitting straight up at 12 o clock high. I drive 9 miles down the road at 50-60, sucker doesnt move. Im thinking I figured it out. I go to exit and do a u-turn, get caught a light, it starts to creep up. I turn around, get going and there goes the needle, right to the H. No matter what i did it stayed at the H all the way home and died on me twice coming back down my street.

So it's not the thermostat. The radiator was hotter than a firecracker, so it's going thru the radiator, just not cooling.

My auxilary puller fan is pulling 2200 CFM. Does anyone know what the factory fan with a clutch pulled CFM?

I can do 3 things now:

1)Yank the 2200 CFM puller fan and get the SPAHL 6,000 CFM puller fans.

2)Fabricate the stock shroud to fit the aluminum radiator, put the stock fan back on, and try that.

3)Put the 26" radiator that was on there back on, and put the stock shroud and fan with clutch back on.

At this point im stumped.

[Challenger340]

Don't mean to be chiming in so late, with a bunch of dumb questions,
but,
when did your car "used to" run normal temps ?

Any history as to "when", or after "what", this problem manifested itself ?

What has changed ?
Radiator only ?

Is this a new engine build ?

If it used to run fine with the old Radiator, can't you just put that back in ?

[73TXRallye440]

Don't mean to be chiming in so late, with a bunch of dumb questions,
but,
when did your car "used to" run normal temps ?

Any history as to "when", or after "what", this problem manifested itself ?

What has changed ?
Radiator only ?

Is this a new engine build ?

If it used to run fine with the old Radiator, can't you just put that back in ?

1) ran normal before I put the aluminum radiator and puller auxillary fan on there
2) I also put a CH4B intake on there, but that wouldnt make a difference

Yes, Im thinking im just going to go back to the stock setup.

[73TXRallye440]

Im going back to the stock radiator, going to have it gone thru, then putting the stock shroud and clutch/fan back on.

[idahogrumpy]

I believe that you have a timing issue. It has already been said I know. Or if you just changed the manifold I would suspect a vacuum leak, or combination of vacuum leak and lean jetting.

Does the bottom hose have a spring in it? If not it could be collapsing while driving. Install a 160 thermostat. Don not remove thermostat completely, the water will flow too fast and not have a chance to cool before returning to the engine. Good luck Kyle

[62 Max]

If its running hot,a 160 thermostat will do nothing.Once the engine reaches temperature,the 160 will never close.195* is the ideal temp for overall cooling and engine life.

[73TXRallye440]

My neighbor just had a good idea- could a clogged heater core cause this?

[resq302]

A clogged heater core would not really do anything for making a car run hot.  If it is clogged, it is like just having a by pass hose looped in place of it running through the heate core. 

I am leaning towards either a timing issue or that you have a vacuum leak from the intake swap.  Did you adjust your carb at all during changing the parts over?

[Drop Top]

If you don't have a vacume leak and timeing is set right, I would go back to the stock set up. You say it gets 100 degrees in your area. Make shure your water pump is an A/C pump. Ive tried the high dollor water pumps and nothing works any better then the stock A/C water pumps. Even if you don't have A/C. There is a differance in the two. Where I live it gets up to 115 for days at a time. I havent had much luck with the electic fans on a 440 on the street. Other then running down the track. If you want to keep the aluminum radiator then put the stock clutch fan and put a shoud on it. The company you bought the radiator from might sell shrouds for it.

The heater core being blocked shouldn't make a differance. You only use it when you have the heat on inside your car. I've had to bypass them altogether just to get home, with no problems.

[73TXRallye440]

A clogged heater core would not really do anything for making a car run hot.  If it is clogged, it is like just having a by pass hose looped in place of it running through the heate core. 

I am leaning towards either a timing issue or that you have a vacuum leak from the intake swap.  Did you adjust your carb at all during changing the parts over?

adjusted timing yesterday. did a vacuum test, vacuum was a tad low, but used WD40 to test for a vacuum leak and we couldnt find one. sprayed it all around the carb, around the intake, etc.

Yes, carb was re-adjusted.

[73TXRallye440]

If you don't have a vacume leak and timeing is set right, I would go back to the stock set up. You say it gets 100 degrees in your area. Make shure your water pump is an A/C pump. Ive tried the high dollor water pumps and nothing works any better then the stock A/C water pumps. Even if you don't have A/C. There is a differance in the two. Where I live it gets up to 115 for days at a time. I havent had much luck with the electic fans on a 440 on the street. Other then running down the track. If you want to keep the aluminum radiator then put the stock clutch fan and put a shoud on it. The company you bought the radiator from might sell shrouds for it.

The heater core being blocked shouldn't make a differance. You only use it when you have the heat on inside your car. I've had to bypass them altogether just to get home, with no problems.

yes, water pump is next.

[resq302]

If you adjusted the carb, you could have made it too lean while you are cruising or at idle which would cause the increase in temps. 

[NHCharger]

I had an overheating problem with my 72 several years ago. I installed a new water pump and solved the problem. The old water pump seemed to work fine but the vanes were quite corroded. All I can think is that the roughness of the vanes possibly caused cavitation or air bubbles and disrupted the water flow.
I also think the moparts member has a possible point about the blockage of air flow with all that other stuff in front of the radiator.

[flyinlow]

I have seen corroded water pump fins cause this problem. Your picture shows a crossflow radiator. Run engine untill warm with cap off. watch water flow in radiator with engine at a fast idle. you should see it circulating at a  good rate after thermostat opens. It will flow out of the cooling tubes and dump into the tank with the intake (lower) hose. If no/low flow check waterpump /thermostat.

rad. hoses will be firm with the cooling system at normal temp. with a preasure cap installed. Squishy when cold.

I can run my alunimum radiator with the cap loose and it won't overheat. The preasure raises the boiling point of the coolant. Water/prestone boil at about 235 deg. at sea level with no preasure cap. about 30degs. higher with 15 lbs. cap.

I have two 14 inch puller fans. 5800 cfm.  If i run just one in a traffic jam it can get warm after while.

Plugged heater won't make car run hot unless you are using the heater core as an auxilary radiator.

do you have a suction spring in the lower hose? Keeps hose from constricting from waterpump suction.

[Matthan]

I have been working on some of the samething what does it mean is i have coolent coming out of my overflow hose and i do not have my radiator over full? Could it be a something else going on?

[flyinlow]

Is your a/c condenser clean?  Can air flow through it and the radiator?

[flyinlow]

I have been working on some of the samething what does it mean is i have coolent coming out of my overflow hose and i do not have my radiator over full? Could it be a something else going on?

Most engines are hotter 15mins. after shut down. While running the radiator,oil and exhuast system are all getting rid of heat. After shutdown the residual heat in the engine heats the coolant to a higher temp and makes it expand. If you keep your radiator full and do not have an expansion tank you can sometimes you can get coolant out of the overflow. A small amount. This is assuming a good preasure cap and proper coolant in the engine.

when and how much overflow?

[73TXRallye440]

***MAY 8th UPDATE****

Just wanted to give an update. Made some headway on tracking down the overheating issue I am having. Took one of those infrared heat guns, measured temps at radiator, that was as it should be. Then measured the temperature on each side of the head at the headers and found my right head/headers were 100 degrees hotter than the left side. So the car was cooled down, next day tested again and found the right head/header were 100 degrees again hotter than the left side. So it appears ive got a hot spot. Going to check the valves, rockers, shims, head gasket, etc tomorrow. Good to know it isnt a water flow issue (ie- water pump) or radiator/air flow problem.

[1969chargerrtse]

Wow, great thinking.  I have a heat gun and never thought of that.  Good Luck.