Pontiac is dead?

[Ghoste]

Which is saying much for any of the new Pontiac styling then is it?  Maybe it should be no surprise that its dying.
The bigger point is probably that if you plan to resurrect an older name to capture the graying boomer market, you probably shouldn't stick it on a car that is more appealing to their kids or grandkids.
Which isn't to say that I don't agree with your surmise.

[captnsim]

 

[RallyeMike]

Tell me GM knows what they are doing.  brickwall

They may not know how to run a car company, but they sure can hold a tin cup.

"Mr. Wagoner said on Tuesday that the revamping plan was "comprehensive, responsive and achievable," and could help the company break even by 2010".

Lets see: They got $4B in December, $5.4B in January, $4B in February, are now asking for another $4B by end of March. At the rate of $4B/month, and assuming the company actually DOES break even Jan  2010, GM is going to cost the tax payers another $36B this year.

[TheGhost]

Which is saying much for any of the new Pontiac styling then is it?  Maybe it should be no surprise that its dying.
The bigger point is probably that if you plan to resurrect an older name to capture the graying boomer market, you probably shouldn't stick it on a car that is more appealing to their kids or grandkids.

Frankly, it wasn't just Pontiac styling that was lacking in the 90s and early 2000s...

[Ghoste]

How true, how true.

[Mike DC]

     
The original GTO was about $4K worth of performance, camoflauged in about $3K worth of styling, and priced at $3K.  No wonder it sold so well.   


But the new GTO was about $30K in peformance, camoflauged in about 22K worth of styling . . . and then stickered at $34K.  Guess how this one sold. 


-------------------------------------------------------------

The new GTO was General Motors starting with a good idea, and then train-wrecking it one step at a time with corporate execution of the idea. 


They seemed to start out intending to offer a "$30K/$30K/$30K" car (to use my above description). 

But the bigwigs priced it at what it cost THEM to BUILD the program, instead of what the market would actually bear.  If they spent $34K per car becuase they're an inefficient corporation, then they seemed to think it was the customer's job to spend $34K to cover it.  (After all, where ELSE are they gonna get their honest-to-God Pontiac GTO these days?) 

And the lack of styling was probably some vague realization by GM late in the project that they couldn't afford to dump any more money onto the sticker price than they already had.  So they cut certain "extras" like, the decent appearance to match the high price.  (After all, it wasn't THEIR job to lose money on this car, was it?)

[Mopar2Ya]

Those new GTO's were left on dealer lots IIRC selling for around $26k. It didn't help that they looked like a 2dr '92 Taurus. 

[moparstuart]

Those new GTO's were left on dealer lots IIRC selling for around $26k. It didn't help that they looked like a 2dr '92 Taurus. 

or a grand am   

[captnsim]

 Aerodynamic potato's with a pinball machine for a dash

[Lizey]

they arent killing pontiac but they're making it..a "marque" brand i think was the term?
idk but they're still making pontiacs

[Ghoste]

Aerodynamic potato's with a pinball machine for a dash

  Thats one of the best descriptions of 90's auto styling I've ever heard.

[69charger2002]

in my personal opinion the 93-02 trans am(98-02 in particular) was one of the best styling cars ever produced. my wife likes them better than the new challengers. in fact she likes 98-02 ram air's better than her black 70 R/T SE charger..      the interior in those pontiac's looks cheap but the car is aggressive looking sitting still, ran like a hot potato, and was fairly aerodynamic.
trav

[superduperbee]

NO more azteks on the road?  thank god.. 

AZTEK = The Short Bus for automotive designers. :smilielol:they should all be painted yellow with tinted windows.  The Aztek will feel right at home parked next to an Edsel or AMC Pacer. As for Saturn.....the worst piece of crap I have ever driven. I also was hoping for a Trans-Am version of the Camaro. Couldn't really care less about Chrysler going under, I only like the old Mopars anyways.

[Charger_Fan]

Honestly, of all the members of the GM car family, I actually like Pontiac the best. I think that ever since the mid 60's (with exception to mid 80's to mid 90's), they've overall had a lot more performance oriented styling than the other GM's.
I wouldn't mind owning a new GTO, mainly because it DOES look like a Grand Am, but it's faster than snot. I just wouldn't want to do any engine work...no room.
I would also love to own a Solstice, I've liked those since I first saw one. I'd like to have one of those as my daily commuter, they look fun.

[b5blue]

ERK!!!Stop it...You just made me throw up a little!They will all go under if bean counters keep running things! I'm sick of stubbie little turd shape cars! Chrysler would not be in trouble if they had not been raided by you know who!

[Mike DC]

in my personal opinion the 93-02 trans am(98-02 in particular) was one of the best styling cars ever produced. my wife likes them better than the new challengers. in fact she likes 98-02 ram air's better than her black 70 R/T SE charger..   slap   the interior in those pontiac's looks cheap but the car is aggressive looking sitting still, ran like a hot potato, and was fairly aerodynamic.
trav

IMHO that wasn't a great one for styling.  By the 1993 restyle, both F-bodies had almost become caricatures of themselves. 

I like many of the ideas on paper.  But it was as if they had built 3 concept cars ranging from conservative to aggressive, and then somebody mistakenly greenlighted the most aggressive one rather than the middle one. 

[SuperCharger]

The  problem with the GTO is it was built of an existing boring platform it is the exact same as the Holden Monaro.

GTO

[Ghoste]

And IIRC, not unlike the outcry over a four door Charger, did not the Pontiac faithful complain loudly of the fact very early in the program when GM announced their intention to rebadge the Holden as a GTO and sell it over here?

[captnsim]

Yep they had a fit...Not that I blame them...

[694spdRT]

While I don't care for the GTO looks at all I did test drive one of the 400 horse models and it was pretty impressive.

[Mike DC]

 
Listening to us Mopar guys about the 2006 Charger, you'd think the new GTO was exactly what we wanted.  I mean, it's got two doors, right? 


The only thing I ever remember hearing people complain about on the new Charger was "make it a 2-door!"

   

[TheGhost]

The Monaro is a boring platform?

[Ghoste]

Stylingwise yes, to me anyway and guessing by its sales performance to a lot of other people too.  No one has ever denied the performance of the car (or the new Charger for that matter) but price and style are the other two selling features and "over"priced (unless its really stupid) is going to be heavily influenced by the other two qualifiers.  Sooooo, if the performance is there it leaves the bulk of the finger pointing at one villain, bland looks.

[ACUDANUT]

 The new Chager still does not at the very least, look like a Charger.

[BIRD67]

I have to agree, the 98-01 Trans AMs look bad ass and can also haul ass as well! and the Grand Prix GXP's haul as well! If I could get any new car right now, I would choose the Pontiac G8 GT, even over the Challenger SRT-8! The G8 is a great looking car that holds it's own! I think that if anything one of these days GM will only have Chevrolet..

Oh By the way, you know how Chevrolet claims it is the heartbeat of America? Then I guess America has Congestive Heart Failure..