Best Damper to use--440 forged crank---street car---manual trans

[Chatt69chgr]

I bought a damper from 440 Source for my 440 engine---forged crank---manual trans----neutral balance.  It's their $129 piece.  Says it's SFI approved.  Should I have spent a little more $$ for a better damper?  Is so, what would you folks recommend.  This engine will not be used for racing.  It's a warmed up 440 just for fun. 

[Ghoste]

SFI approved for a street engine is going to do the job just fine.

[firefighter3931]

I bought a damper from 440 Source for my 440 engine---forged crank---manual trans----neutral balance.  It's their $129 piece.  Says it's SFI approved.  Should I have spent a little more $$ for a better damper?  Is so, what would you folks recommend.  This engine will not be used for racing.  It's a warmed up 440 just for fun. 

Is it a fluid filled dampner ?


Ron

[Chatt69chgr]

I don't think it's fluid filled.  This is the description off the 440 Source Website:

Shown above is our new high strength steel Damper. These use the offset (pre 72) pulley bolt pattern. They are supplied in a chrome finish for good looks and corrosion protection. This damper is the perfect choice for those who want a damper that looks similar and interchanges with a factory unit, but with all the design features you'd expect from a modern performance unit. First we start with 1045 steel, (a far stronger steel than the cast iron the factory used, or even the nodular iron that some cheaper aftermarket dampers use.) Then, these dampers are fully dynamically balanced at the factory.
But, we don't stop there. Even though these dampers are 100% dimensionally identical to a factory unit on the outside, there are some key differences in the manufacturing process. The number one problem with 40 year old stock dampers is that the rubber which bonds the inner hub to the outer ring is exposed on the backside of the damper. This allows it to deteriorate when exposed to ozone, engine oil/grease, etc. This can allow the outer ring to slip, causing inaccurate timing marks, a munched up timing cover, or worse the ring can come loose at high RPM and turn into a bullet. To remedy this problem, we have designed these dampers in such a way that the rubber is completely sealed inside the housing of the damper. Below, you can see a picture of the back of our damper (on the left and above) compared to a factory damper (on the right.) Notice the condition of the rubber on the factory damper.



Also, notice the quality of the machining on the damper snout and seal surface verses the stock unit. There's no comparison. This damper includes 40 years of manufacturing technology, all the features of a high dollar modern race unit, and best of all... We've made them incredibly affordable.

Part No: 200-1083 - High Strength Steel Damper - Chrome plated - New.  Price: $129.95

Also, it doesn't say SFI anywhere but the packaging said that on it as I recall.  I believe there was a little SFI sticker on the damper.  The damper is at the machine shop right now with the engine so I can't run out and look at it.  It has a "0" degree marking on it but no other marks.  I guess you are supposed to use the degree marking tape with it. 

[bill440rt]

I picked up mine from Promax, it's made by Precision Performance. It's black, has the stock dimensions, and has degree'd timing marks on it. Plus, it was under $100 bucks.

[tan top]

not trying to hijack your thread 
..but i have a question  .... still on subject .... what  aftermarket harmonic  balancer for a steel crank  motor  , can use the stock type crank pulley ??  have heard story's of machining ! shims/spacers    also have heard that a fluid dampener is only really for motors that operate at a continus RPM ...  don't know how true  this is , the article went something like this ,  with a fluid dampener & varying rpm..... the fluid in the dampener cant compinsate quick enough , they are  more suited to roundy round  track stuff ,  like i say don't know how true , i read it a good few years ago , dismissed it at the time , but now i'm going to be building another motor  sometime  soon ... this thread has joged my memory 

[bill440rt]

not trying to hijack your thread 
..but i have a question  .... still on subject .... what  aftermarket harmonic  balancer for a steel crank  motor  , can use the stock type crank pulley ??  have heard story's of machining ! shims/spacers    also have heard that a fluid dampener is only really for motors that operate at a continus RPM ...  don't know how true  this is , the article went something like this ,  with a fluid dampener & varying rpm..... the fluid in the dampener cant compinsate quick enough , they are  more suited to roundy round  track stuff ,  like i say don't know how true , i read it a good few years ago , dismissed it at the time , but now i'm going to be building another motor  sometime  soon ... this thread has joged my memory 

Ben at Promax told me the one I bought has the exact dimensions as stock. Looking at it, it does. It has the offset bolt pattern for the pulleys as well.
I was told to avoid the fluid dampers on the street, as heat/cold has an effect on it. Ron (firefighter) recommended one from Summit Racing. The one I got from Promax is very similar, if not the same thing.

[tan top]

not trying to hijack your thread 
..but i have a question  .... still on subject .... what  aftermarket harmonic  balancer for a steel crank  motor  , can use the stock type crank pulley ??  have heard story's of machining ! shims/spacers    also have heard that a fluid dampener is only really for motors that operate at a continus RPM ...  don't know how true  this is , the article went something like this ,  with a fluid dampener & varying rpm..... the fluid in the dampener cant compinsate quick enough , they are  more suited to roundy round  track stuff ,  like i say don't know how true , i read it a good few years ago , dismissed it at the time , but now i'm going to be building another motor  sometime  soon ... this thread has joged my memory 

Ben at Promax told me the one I bought has the exact dimensions as stock. Looking at it, it does. It has the offset bolt pattern for the pulleys as well.
I was told to avoid the fluid dampers on the street, as heat/cold has an effect on it. Ron (firefighter) recommended one from Summit Racing. The one I got from Promax is very similar, if not the same thing.

thanks for the  quick reply & infomation (Bill440rt) good info
its been appreciated

[firefighter3931]

Chatt, that balancer looks fine. I'm not a fan of the fluid style dampners on the street and the one you chose is NOT a fluid dampner. 

I don't know about pulley shimming because i've never used one of those. I like the Romac balancers that Summit sells which fit fine with factory pullies and belt alignment is spot on. Mike (MFR426) has one on his 505 stroker....and i also have one on my own 446. 



Ron

[bill440rt]

Hi Ron,
I thought you told me you didn't like the 440 Source dampers?? That's one of the reasons why I shyed away from them.

[Chatt69chgr]

I think the damper Bill mentioned is the Percision Products 80013.  It is not SFI approved and sells for around $85.  The other offering that Precision Products has is the 90013 which is SFI approved and sells for around $210.  I don't have any idea if these are fluid type or not.  Summit has both of these. 

Ron--------do you think the one I got from 440Source will be OK?  My build is for less than 6000rpm.  I won't be racing.  Thanks.

[firefighter3931]

Hi Ron,
I thought you told me you didn't like the 440 Source dampers?? That's one of the reasons why I shyed away from them.

At the time you asked Bill....they were only showing fluid dampners on their website. Perhaps this is a new(er) product ?  


The Summit "house brand" are Australian built Romac units....those are excellent quality.  



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Ron--------do you think the one I got from 440Source will be OK?  My build is for less than 6000rpm.  I won't be racing.  Thanks.

Sure, don't sweat it ! 

Anything is going to be better than a 40 year old stocker that has vulcanized rubber holding the outer ring to the hub. 


Ron

[bill440rt]

I think the damper Bill mentioned is the Percision Products 80013.  It is not SFI approved and sells for around $85.  The other offering that Precision Products has is the 90013 which is SFI approved and sells for around $210.  I don't have any idea if these are fluid type or not.  Summit has both of these. 

Ron--------do you think the one I got from 440Source will be OK?  My build is for less than 6000rpm.  I won't be racing.  Thanks.

Yes, the PP 80013 is the one I got. The brand is actually Professional Products. According to Ben, he's used them on many Promax builds & they have worked well. Stock pulleys line up with no problems. It is a NON-fluid damper.
Here's a link:
http://performanceparts.com/part.php?partID=204232

Hi Ron,
I thought you told me you didn't like the 440 Source dampers?? That's one of the reasons why I shyed away from them.

At the time you asked Bill....they were only showing fluid dampners on their website. Perhaps this is a new(er) product ?  

The Summit "house brand" are Australian built Romac units....those are excellent quality.  

Ron

Sorry Ron, I'm nearly positive I was questioning the 440 Source non-fluid chrome damper. I remember you telling me you weren't a fan, and the PP ones were very similar to the Summit offerings. Are the Summit ones SFI approved?
I'm sure they're ALL fine for the money.

[Ghoste]

What is it you don't like about a fluid damper on the street Ron?