Engine Paint Options

[bill440rt]

Just wondering what everyone is using on their engines these days? 

I used PPG Deltron on my '70's engine years ago. It has held up relatively nice, but no one mixes Deltron any more.
My '68's 440 has the Mopar rattle can turquoise. Covered well, shines decent.

The Mopar Hemi Orange rattle can paint, based on my memory from years ago, was pi$$ thin and covered like crap. Their Restoration Hemi Orange was supposed to be much better, but is now disco'd. How is their current Hemi Orange rattle can paint these days?

I've used Bill Hirsch's Hemi Orange before, the color was not even close.

Now, Eastwood comes out with this:
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1819&itemType=CONTENT&path=32

Looks enticing. 

I've primed my engines before with a mist coat of HI-Temp engine primer or PPG DP primers, I feel it helps with adhesion to bare metal even though some people say you don't need it. Maybe not on a rough cast engine block, but on smooth valve covers or an oil pan I feel it is necessary.

So... what is everyone using out there?? 
Thanks!

[Charger-Bodie]

Del-Star !

I can go either way on priming the sheetmetal parts ...ie valve covers etc. I see you're point about adhesion,but the factory didn't seal them and never had a problem either way.

I Dp epoxied a block once and it all peeled off Never sealed a block after that,and all is well.

[bill440rt]

I have to admit, the rattle can hi-temp primer has held up better over the years vs the DP!! 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I used the resto orange on mine & wanted to do an intake swap & touch up some areas....the fact that they disco'd the stuff swayed my intake swap plans

[69hemi]

I wipe it down with a good pre-cleaner then I hit it with a PPG Etching primer.  After that I use Mopaint from Rob.  His colors and glosses are dead nuts on and it is a hi temp so it bakes on nice and even when it gets hot for the first time.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hey Bill,
      As I wanted to have my engine for the blue car be correct as possible(color),I went with the Roger Gibson/Frank Badleson PPG Delstar mix.Just as Brian said NO epoxy,they aslo said not to put anything on the engine and go right on the bare cast iron/steel.Also,NOT to use any hardener.I had to prime my valve covers as they had some rust pits and a couple of dings to be taken out,so I glass beaded them,bodywork,epoxy,then K38 primer.Blocked them ,and wet sanded out to 600 grit as there was going to be no sealer of any kind.I chemically stripped the block of its orig paint,then cleaned with laquer thinner and a small brush(toothbrush size)over and over again,then prep soled.Pre painted under side of intake before I put it on,and during the painting I did the baskside of the water pump,then mounted on engine to get the front.Again,NO hardener,painted right on the engine.This Delstar covered like an animal on the first coat,awesome stuff(plus love the smell!!!)
  On another note,my black cars temporary engine,I used some PPG's Omni line acrylic enamel in the Manderin orange formula ,again done in the same fashion except for I DID use hardener!!!Came out pretty shiny,but took multiple coats to do the same as the real Delstar.Color looks good,but a little to chevy orange to me.I did'nt add any hardener to my other engine,so I will have to be carefull what I spill on it,and be carefull how I clean it so maybe you might want to add just a little but not the full amount to have just a little more protection and maybe a litte more gloss to it,but I am happy the way it came out anyway.Just think,that is the way they did it 40 years ago,and the paint was all still there so it must work,and even without the hardener once it gets started it will get baked on anyway.Here's some pics for you to see how their mix looks.....

[bill440rt]

Hey Paul,
Can you tell me what you had in materials to do yours in Delstar?? I'm kinda on a budget, the $5.99 rattle can method is looking better. Even the $30 Eastwood stuff might be cheaper.

Basically, all I'm painting is the block, oil pan, and oil pump. Everything else is either polished aluminum or chrome.

[BigBlockSam]

your engine looks great!  what did you use on the exhaust manifolds . i like the way they came out . Rene

[69 OUR/TEA]

Bill,I think the paint was $50 or $55 for the pint from Frank Badelson,I had the reducer kicking around,and don't know if you would want to put in the hardener,but you can get in half pints,and if so get the omni line,it's cheaper.
   
   Rene,the manifolds  are ceramic coated in cast iron gray.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Paul where are your ground cables? 

PS---Spk plug heat shields, PCV & grommet should be painted as well

And if you really wanted to get technical, exh manifolds & IIRC the fuel pump should be painted as well...

[69 OUR/TEA]

Paul where are your ground cables? 

PS---Spk plug heat shields, PCV & grommet should be painted as well

And if you really wanted to get technical, exh manifolds & IIRC the fuel pump should be painted as well...

  Hey Chris,
          For my own taste,can't bring myself to paint that stuff,I can respect ,but am not a follower of the whole concourse look/duplication route.I like to get things like colors as close as possible,and be for the most part correct or correct looking,but don't care for the whole messy paint on everything look.It looks neat/crisp with all the new parts contrasting together with all the colors that are on the engine.These cars are only original once,Chrysler did a sloppy job back in the day,(because of production efficiency) ,when you go to restore why would you want to duplicate that?Just like the whole overspray on the underside,if I'm painting the underneath you can bet it will look just like the top side of the car.Most of the guys that do the concourse restos go to extremes to copy factory paint overspray,markings,tags,etc, but yet have a  mirror sanded and buffed urethane paint job.Why not copy that too and spray it acrylic enamel,leave it as is right out of the gun orange peel,runs and all?Not that I'm against a painted underside,because nothing looks better than a mopar with a "fully" painted underneath contrasting against exhaust,brake lines,leaf springs and the rear,but seems to me most all the orig unrestored mopars I've seen had thick azz undercoating pounded all over the floors,yet all the recently restored ones don't ??Both my chargers and the one I'm working on(gone now)are factory undercoating.
Both of mine have solid rust free floors and the undercoating is mint,so there it will stay,can't get anymore orig than that.Not to mention it actually is a sound deadener.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I feel ya man....no worries!

PS----who did your manifolds?   They are a nice match to cast iron....mine that I got done by Jet-Hot are way too light

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hey Chris,they are the repos from year one,they came that way.Got them for only $227.00,down side is they have a Y1 on the inside of them ,you can just make it out if you stare between the valve cover and manifold.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Hey Chris,they are the repos from year one,they came that way.Got them for only $227.00,down side is they have a Y1 on the inside of them ,you can just make it out if you stare between the valve cover and manifold.

Ahhhh ha!!  I'll be looking for that at E-Town or Carlisle

[Charger-Bodie]

heres my sloppy job.

[jdiesel33]

heres my sloppy job.

Nice. What type of paint did you use? I assume that is a 440 for a '68. I am about to pull mine out and clean it up and paint it. Mine is a '68 440 as well.

[Charger-Bodie]

I use acrylic enamel with hardener, right over the CLEAN bare metal.

[bill440rt]

Does ANYONE here have the paint number and/or code for Street Hemi Orange in PPG Delstar?? 

Looks like according to their tech sheets I can use DU5 hardener & DT reducers in it, which I have already. Might not be that expensive after all.

[PPGRULES]

Hello guys,

I have been following some of the posts on you inquiries about paint options.  I have also helped out a few people in the past under a friends account, but thought I should register my own.   I was a PPG Territory manager for a good amount of time, and then left PPG in the Northeast to change careers.  I am definitely a true blooded PPG user and currently have my own restoration shop.  We do restos on all vehicles, not just Chrysler products.

I noticed that there was some great questioning about paints for topcoats and undercoats (primers).  The undercoats that many folks stated were etch and DP epoxy.  The DP epoxy would be the best choice.  For years, I would DP or DPLF the engine after the assemble, making sure oils and assembly lubes were not present on the exterior of the engine.  If there is the slightest bit of oil contaminents, the DP will fail eventually.  Some folks indicated it peeled off in sheets.  It was either not mixed right, or the surface was not clean.  DP sticks to most everythng including gaskets and RTV, but it MUST be clean.  It will even not fisheye when it is over oiled surfaces, especially if it is dusted on lightly.

Etch would be a no no.  Etch over a porus surface or sandblast profile is not acceptable.  It will Peel.  DP must be at least TWO coats, and at least 2 MILS thick on your engine.  That is at least three coats, especially when the cast iron profile may want the primer to roll away from sharp surfaces. 

DP should be mixed with 401 slow catalyst as well. 

For a topcoat, Concept, Deltron DAU, Delstar, or even base clear are acceptable to the heat of the engine.  Not the exhaust manifolds, but the engine temps.  Also, the factory did not primer or seal, but when chips happened on valve covers, smooth or rough surfaces, rust then developed and creeped under the coating.  Therefore, the coating would flake off like potatoe chips.  This will happen again, if an epoxy or some type of primer is not used.  This is also dependent upon the environment that it is kept, such as a dry garage, or damp cellar.

As for Arcrylic Enamel, that is a factory type product.  Do not expect it to hold up and shine nice after time, as the heat will make the oxidation process speed up on the engine, no matter if it has hardener or not.  The hardener will last longer.  Solvents will effect it as a rattle can as well.  (Brake clean, gas carb clean) will all tarnish the paint. 

A urethane is your best choice for a topcoat, and if you are into the duller factory look, flattening paste DX995 for urethanes, or a flattened clearcoat DCU2060 can be added to your mixture to achieve the factory shine, without sacraficing the longevity of the holdout.  An engine is something that you do not remove to repaint very often.

Hope this helps some of you out.

[HeavyFuel]

This guy sounds smart.

Welcome to the site, PPGrules.

[HeavyFuel]

heres my sloppy job.

Your looks pretty nice. 

I made the mistake of letting my engine builder paint mine.   
It turned out lame and will probably be a redo.  Still better than factory, I bet.

[Charger-Bodie]

Far better than factory!

[maxwellwedge]

Hey Bill,
      As I wanted to have my engine for the blue car be correct as possible(color),I went with the Roger Gibson/Frank Badleson PPG Delstar mix.Just as Brian said NO epoxy,they aslo said not to put anything on the engine and go right on the bare cast iron/steel.Also,NOT to use any hardener.I had to prime my valve covers as they had some rust pits and a couple of dings to be taken out,so I glass beaded them,bodywork,epoxy,then K38 primer.Blocked them ,and wet sanded out to 600 grit as there was going to be no sealer of any kind.I chemically stripped the block of its orig paint,then cleaned with laquer thinner and a small brush(toothbrush size)over and over again,then prep soled.Pre painted under side of intake before I put it on,and during the painting I did the baskside of the water pump,then mounted on engine to get the front.Again,NO hardener,painted right on the engine.This Delstar covered like an animal on the first coat,awesome stuff(plus love the smell!!!)
  On another note,my black cars temporary engine,I used some PPG's Omni line acrylic enamel in the Manderin orange formula ,again done in the same fashion except for I DID use hardener!!!Came out pretty shiny,but took multiple coats to do the same as the real Delstar.Color looks good,but a little to chevy orange to me.I did'nt add any hardener to my other engine,so I will have to be carefull what I spill on it,and be carefull how I clean it so maybe you might want to add just a little but not the full amount to have just a little more protection and maybe a litte more gloss to it,but I am happy the way it came out anyway.Just think,that is the way they did it 40 years ago,and the paint was all still there so it must work,and even without the hardener once it gets started it will get baked on anyway.Here's some pics for you to see how their mix looks.....

I always use Frank and Rogers paint. They have the correct Turquiose, 340/440 orange, and early and late Steet Hemi orange. The color and gloss is 100% dead nuts. I have touched up some areas on original engine paint and you can't tell what's factory paint and what's theirs.

[bill440rt]

Thanks guys for all of your input.     PPGRules, excellent post! 

I tried getting the Delstar formula and/or paint code with no luck. I was also hoping as a second alternative to get some of that MP "Resto Hemi Orange" spray paint, but yeah, it's disco'd.
What did I do? I ended up ordering the Eastwood stuff. It is a ceramic-based paint, and is also a urethane & uses a hardener. Good for 650-degrees. I had a 15% discount, & it ended up coming in less than if I bought Delstar. It's not a stock resto, so I'd rather have it nice & shiny vs a little dull as original. It also says priming is not necessary, but I might just prime the oil pan anyway since it is smooth stamped steel. 2-coat coverage as per the can, we'll see. Knowing me, I'll probably give it three anyway.
Keep ya's posted...   

[maxwellwedge]

Thanks guys for all of your input.     PPGRules, excellent post! 

I tried getting the Delstar formula and/or paint code with no luck. I was also hoping as a second alternative to get some of that MP "Resto Hemi Orange" spray paint, but yeah, it's disco'd.
What did I do? I ended up ordering the Eastwood stuff. It is a ceramic-based paint, and is also a urethane & uses a hardener. Good for 650-degrees. I had a 15% discount, & it ended up coming in less than if I bought Delstar. It's not a stock resto, so I'd rather have it nice & shiny vs a little dull as original. It also says priming is not necessary, but I might just prime the oil pan anyway since it is smooth stamped steel. 2-coat coverage as per the can, we'll see. Knowing me, I'll probably give it three anyway.
Keep ya's posted...   

Hardener in engine paint is not a good idea. I have seen a lot of cracked engine paint after a year that has hardener in it.

[Charger-Bodie]

Thanks guys for all of your input.     PPGRules, excellent post! 

I tried getting the Delstar formula and/or paint code with no luck. I was also hoping as a second alternative to get some of that MP "Resto Hemi Orange" spray paint, but yeah, it's disco'd.
What did I do? I ended up ordering the Eastwood stuff. It is a ceramic-based paint, and is also a urethane & uses a hardener. Good for 650-degrees. I had a 15% discount, & it ended up coming in less than if I bought Delstar. It's not a stock resto, so I'd rather have it nice & shiny vs a little dull as original. It also says priming is not necessary, but I might just prime the oil pan anyway since it is smooth stamped steel. 2-coat coverage as per the can, we'll see. Knowing me, I'll probably give it three anyway.
Keep ya's posted...   

Hardener in engine paint is not a good idea. I have seen a lot of cracked engine paint after a year that has hardener in it.

Ive used hardener in the acrylic enamel on engine Ive sprayed for about 15 years now.

I have seen all of them again at one time or another , none have ever cracked. Infact they still look awesome.

[maxwellwedge]

Maybe the "Canadian" hardener is causing the cracking up here! 

[mauve66]

i thought that 68 and later big blocks used the orange until the 400 replaced the 383 and they went to blue???

that is blue right?? not the turqoiuse of the earlyier 383 blocks???

[maxwellwedge]

67-68 big block "turquoise"

440 HP engine paint (69-71) Orange

Hemi engine paint 66-early 69 Street Hemi Orange - 1'st shade

Hemi engine paint late 69-71 Street Hemi Orange - Last shade

69 340 - Blue......NOT Orange!

[resq302]

Hey Chris,they are the repos from year one,they came that way.Got them for only $227.00,down side is they have a Y1 on the inside of them ,you can just make it out if you stare between the valve cover and manifold.

Paul,

Those are the same manifolds I have on my car.  The coating that Y1 put on them ended up peeling off on me and looked like crap.  I ended up blasting them and used VHT Nu Cast paint on them.

[resq302]

67-68 big block "turquoise"

440 HP engine paint (69-71) Orange

Hemi engine paint 66-early 69 Street Hemi Orange - 1'st shade

Hemi engine paint late 69-71 Street Hemi Orange - Last shade

69 340 - Blue......NOT Orange!

68 - 383s were turquoise
69 - 383s were turquoise (except for the HP version which was street hemi orange)

[maxwellwedge]

67-68 big block "turquoise"

440 HP engine paint (69-71) Orange

Hemi engine paint 66-early 69 Street Hemi Orange - 1'st shade

Hemi engine paint late 69-71 Street Hemi Orange - Last shade

69 340 - Blue......NOT Orange!

68 - 383s were turquoise
69 - 383s were turquoise (except for the HP version which was street hemi orange)

69 - 383 HP is 440 orange

[resq302]

The orange used on the big blocks (383 HPs in 69 and all 440s) was Street Hemi Orange.  Not to be confused with Race Hemi Orange.

[maxwellwedge]

The orange used on the big blocks (383 HPs in 69 and all 440s) was Street Hemi Orange.  Not to be confused with Race Hemi Orange.

There is a BIG difference between Street Hemi Orange and 440 HP Orange. They are not the same orange. This is a documented fact.

[Charger-Bodie]

The orange used on the big blocks (383 HPs in 69 and all 440s) was Street Hemi Orange.  Not to be confused with Race Hemi Orange.

There is a BIG difference between Street Hemi Orange and 440 HP Orange. They are not the same orange. This is a documented fact.

With Maxwellwedge ! the wedge orange is more pale than the hemi orange (either shade)

[resq302]

I guess the old Mopar Perf. catalog was wrong then as that is where I got my info from.  The guy (Hemi John Pierson) who has been rebuilding hemis and all kind of Mopar engines said that is what they used.  Guess I got some wrong info.  The paint on my engine is the old "rainbow can" Mopar Performance street hemi orange which is orange with a little bit of redish tint.  I think the restoration orange was also the same shade.   The new mopar paint has the street hemi orange which has more of a redish orange tint to it compared to the old MP "rainbow" paint.  An exact match to the old Mopar Perf. paint that I am using for touch ups is the VHT Chrysler orange paint now.

[maxwellwedge]

Ya - those Chrysler rattle can colors used to be closer but they kinda migrated to almost a Chevy Orange.  (nothing against Chev's - I have a couple)

The new SRT8 motors are painted old school Street Hemi Orange. Chrysler actually asked Gibson and Badalson for their formula as a favor.

[mauve66]

67-68 big block "turquoise"

440 HP engine paint (69-71) Orange

Hemi engine paint 66-early 69 Street Hemi Orange - 1'st shade

Hemi engine paint late 69-71 Street Hemi Orange - Last shade

69 340 - Blue......NOT Orange!

cool, i plan on getting a 440 stroker but painting it tourquoise and using the 383 decals so those outside the "inner circle will think its still a 383............ he he he he he he

[resq302]

Just hope that no one that sees the engine knows the difference between a 383 block and a 440 block.  Easy way to tell the difference.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hey Chris,they are the repos from year one,they came that way.Got them for only $227.00,down side is they have a Y1 on the inside of them ,you can just make it out if you stare between the valve cover and manifold.

Paul,

Those are the same manifolds I have on my car.  The coating that Y1 put on them ended up peeling off on me and looked like crap.  I ended up blasting them and used VHT Nu Cast paint on them.

  Good to know Brian,the engine has not been fired up yet,but if it does do what you say,I would take them off blast them clean,followed by glass bead and leave like so.The engine in my black car has the orig manifolds on it,all I did was glass bead them clean,and suprisingly been driving the car and they still look natural.Even if they start to get some surface rust ,I'ts no big deal to take off once and a while and redo.I'll see how long they last for me.

[mauve66]

Just hope that no one that sees the engine knows the difference between a 383 block and a 440 block.  Easy way to tell the difference.

yeah its easy to tell but i really don't think people outside the mopar world would know, hell, when i tell people i have a 66 charger they say " just like the Dukes of Hazzard car??"

then if they come by the house and see the car in the garage they say "what's that?? a SuperBee, Road Runner??"

[MoparGuy]

I'm in the process of painting my engine and am wondering how to paint the valley pan gasket?  Should I be using a primer first???  Suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
MoparGuy

[maxwellwedge]

I'm in the process of painting my engine and am wondering how to paint the valley pan gasket?  Should I be using a primer first???  Suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
MoparGuy

Chrysler didn't use primer and neither do I. Let 'er rip! And if it is an HP motor don't use that valley pan insulation crap....I have only ever seen those on low-horse C-Bodies never on an HP.

[Ghoste]

It was in my 68 Road Runner, it had been virtually untouched under the hood before I became it's 2nd owner.

[maxwellwedge]

It was in my 68 Road Runner, it had been virtually untouched under the hood before I became it's 2nd owner.

Sorry - I was talking 375HP 440's. Should have been more specific.

[squeakfinder]

I used three cans of Duplicolor Hemi Orange. I cleaned the block with lacquer thinner, then mineral spirits.