440 source roller rockers

[72charger440]

and the valve spring are the stock ones not ones for an hp engine

[mally69]

i bought a set of the 440 source rollers 1.5 ratio i installed them but havent run the engine yet. are they that bad?

personally for only a few more bucks I would go with crane golds for your app, I would not use those 440 source rockers on anything. 

[72charger440]

the only prob wit that is ive got the rockers awhile ago and ive installed them already in my 440 and i put my engine back into my charger. so will they be ok if i run them for a little bit because my heads are stock, and i dont have the money 2 buy new ones ive grad high school last yrs about 2 pay for college and so i cant buy anything else for awhile and this cars going 2 b my daily driver, and i dont think 440 source will take them back and give me a refund but idk

[mally69]

Well i had alot of problems with mine i had adjusters break off several times and 2 rollers came off and cuased me to have to rebuild my entire engine becuase it ended up swallowing a valve becuase of a weak valvetrain. I am gonna have to say NO dont use them, but thats just my advise, especially being a daily driver like you said thats alot of use on those rockers, i know for a fact i didnt have very many miles on mine before stuff started to happen. You do what ya want, but I would never use them on anything ever again. 

[72charger440]

thanks. yeah i dont know what 2 do i dont want 2 rebuild my 440 again and i will b pissed because i have almost 5 grand into  it. anybody think they will give me a refund?

[mally69]

thanks. yeah i dont know what 2 do i dont want 2 rebuild my 440 again and i will b pissed because i have almost 5 grand into  it. anybody think they will give me a refund?

A refund.. not a chance. You should ebay them, and buy a set of crane ductile iron rockers. They are strong and cheaper than the crane golds i believe. But they are non roller which in your engine having stock heads and such I would shoot for those instead.

[Ghoste]

Which begs the question, at what point do roller rockers become a "must"?

[72charger440]

my only prob with that is i would like 2 have rollers but i dont need them i do need adjutables because of my cam.

[Rob R]

Hardened Adj for real hi perf rockers are around $100 for 16...Crower/T&D...so when you buy these economical rockers how good do you think the adj are going to be ? that's why there are soooo many issues with adj and the other is over tightening the lock nut puts too much strain on the adj screw...
And those stainless rockers hold a ferocious amount of heat compared to alum rockers and transfer that heat into the valve and guide.IMO I see accelerated valve guide wear and seat issues when I take apart STREET engines that run those comp stainless rockers...could be just a coincidence maybe the customer never changed his oil or RPM'ed the shit out of it  It's just 3-4 sets of heads I've taken apart that ran a stainless rocker had excessive wear compared to Dove/Indy style rockers....just my take on it

[72charger440]

well i talked 2 the owner of 440 source 2day and we talked about the issues about the rockes and all he told me was that the only real prob with them was people over tightening them and just need 2 get them 2 the right spot on the adjusters and they would b fine and then we talked about my engine and he said those rockers are best for my engine because its almost stock. then i asked him about the pin in the roller on the rockers coming out and makin the valve drop he said he never heard of that happening b4

[defiance]

Ok, do a search on mally's posts, he's got it WELL documented with SCARY pictures.  The pin clearly came out and forced a valve lock loose, dropped a valve, tore the crap out a 440source head and and did some major damage to the block and piston in the meantime.  Brandon ended up replacing the head, and was highly involved with the post-problem support, so I can't believe he would have forgotten that kind of major failure. 

Keep in mind, I actually like 440source, and run a bunch of their stuff on my engine, but mally's not talking crap about the rockers, those pictures were downright terrifying.

here's the thread.  There are quite a few more pics beyond the first page.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,41430.0.html

[72charger440]

what would his stuff be under on that stuff

[72charger440]

what kind of lifters was he using hydralic or solid and what heads was he using my dad wants 2 know hes an engine builder

[aifilaw]

I'll be running a set of 440-source roller rockers, combined with a set of 440-source hydraulic roller lifters on a 280ish split pattern cam on a 4.28" bore, 3.75" stroke, et cetera. aka, a pretty mild build.

After reading some of the complaints and looking at the pictures there are a few adjustments I'm going to be making.
1. Locks and Retainers from the 440-Source aluminum head are getting thrown in the trash in favor of comp 15-degree set
2. In about 5-10,000 miles I will be putting in a better stronger set of double spring valve springs
3. I will be ensuring beyond a shadow of a doubt that my lrocker tips, lash, et cetera et cetera ad infinitum are measured, checked and double-checked before the engine is finished and fired up.
Why? Because after I swap valve springs the idea is never to have to even remove a valve cover for another 95,000 miles.

Second, I think a lot of the wear, and destruction issues (no offense to you if you don't fit this description) are because people with no knowledge of engine building buy cheap parts because they are on a budget, or because they are just being chintzy on a build that requires more, purchase these 440-source rockers and install them incorrectly, or with other mismatched parts, or abuse them in such a way as to make them fail.
I do this because now, if they fail on mine, I can know without a shadow of a doubt there is a production issue on those rockers, and am able to clearly and concisely document it to the manufacturer.

[72charger440]

whats your lift on ur cam aifilaw?

[aifilaw]

0.361 which equates to 0.541 at the valve

[72charger440]

cool thanks my lift on my cam is .420. mine might b ok then.

[firefighter3931]

cool thanks my lift on my cam is .420. mine might b ok then.

With a .420 lift cam why is it that you feel that a roller rocker is required ? 


Ron

[72charger440]

my cam required adjustable rockers and then i  found these and were told by other mopar guy in my town that they were a good product so i bought them.

[firefighter3931]

my cam required adjustable rockers and then i  found these and were told by other mopar guy in my town that they were a good product so i bought them.

Who told you that a .420 lift cam requires adjustable rockers ? Is this a solid cam or hydraulic ? Roller or flat tappet ?


Ron

[72charger440]

its an edelbrock  performer RPM 1500- 6500 rpm cam it says in my book that came with it says  requires  adjustable valve train.

[firefighter3931]

its an edelbrock  performer RPM 1500- 6500 rpm cam it says in my book that came with it says  requires  adjustable valve train.

That cam does not require adjustable rockers. Many manufacturers like to push people in that direction to sell parts but in your case it is not required.

Personally, i would use the stock stamped rocker arms and be done with it. EBay those 440 source rockers. 



Ron

[72charger440]

the stock rockers would be ok?   then all i would a have 2 do is but new shafts for them old ones were broken in half when i first bought my car

[Ghoste]

You could really splurge and use the heavy duty stamped steel ones.   

[mally69]

If you need shafts I have am old set laying around I could sell ya.