Anyone own/work at a restoration shop?

[bear]

I've been thinking about starting a restoration shop once I a done with college. What's it like dealing with the customers? Do you like working where you do? What suggestions would give somebody who wants to go into this line of work? Are there still people out there that are looking for a car to be restored for them? I am looking for any and all information about this subject as possible.

[Tilar]

I do a lot of restoring old farm tractors, but they are all mine. I'm gearing up to start on my 68 Charger once I finish a 1940 John Deere H that I just got a good start on last fall. Hopefully i'll have it finished by early summer.

I did run a body shop for a friend of mine for a short while. I couldn't imagine doing a restoration shop because 1) I'm way too damn picky. I finish a project and I know every fault it has, and 2) I'd be working for people that want a perfect car with no flaws for $3,000.

That said, If you do very good work and treat people like you would want to be treated in the same situation, you'd probably be able to retire by the time you're 50. One person that has had a good experience will recommend you to a couple people looking for the same service, but someone that has had a bad experience will tell 30 people and their brother that you suck.

[jaak]

Leon "Hemi Hampton" and Larry "Daytonlo" is the only ones I can think of on here that restore cars for a living. You might wanna pm one of those guys.

Jason

[Charger-Bodie]

I also Have a body and resto shop ( I try to keep that somewhat on the down-low here to avoid being overwelmed with questions all the time)

Feel free to ask me anything!

As for dealing with people , Some people have that knack and some dont. I personally love dealing with the people.If you do a good job for people in a timly fashion you will succeed , there is LOTS of resto work to do even in the slow econemy, atleast in my area anyway. We do just MoPars.

[jaak]

I also Have a body and resto shop ( I try to keep that somewhat on the down-low here to avoid being overwelmed with questions all the time)

Feel free to ask me anything!

As for dealing with people , Some people have that knack and some dont. I personally love dealing with the people.If you do a good job for people in a timly fashion you will succeed , there is LOTS of resto work to do even in the slow econemy, atleast in my area anyway. We do just MoPars.

Sorry Brian, totally forgot about you and you're a mod. Just was going by memory who restores cars.

Jason

[bear]

I also Have a body and resto shop ( I try to keep that somewhat on the down-low here to avoid being overwelmed with questions all the time)

Feel free to ask me anything!

As for dealing with people , Some people have that knack and some dont. I personally love dealing with the people.If you do a good job for people in a timly fashion you will succeed , there is LOTS of resto work to do even in the slow econemy, atleast in my area anyway. We do just MoPars.

I guess what I really meant about dealing with the customers is it easier or harder because they have a knowledge of the car that they are having you work on for them. Would you say its better to focus on just GMs, Fords, or MOPARs or just take whatever I can get. Is it easy to start off since there are not a lot of places doing this kind of work or will people be cautious of you until you have built a few cars and people have seen the work you have done? Is it good to outsource jobs out to other places or have somebody in house to do certain jobs like paint, transmissions, etc. I'm sure I'll think of some more things later to ask.

[Charger-Bodie]

I also Have a body and resto shop ( I try to keep that somewhat on the down-low here to avoid being overwelmed with questions all the time)

Feel free to ask me anything!

As for dealing with people , Some people have that knack and some dont. I personally love dealing with the people.If you do a good job for people in a timly fashion you will succeed , there is LOTS of resto work to do even in the slow econemy, atleast in my area anyway. We do just MoPars.

I guess what I really meant about dealing with the customers is it easier or harder because they have a knowledge of the car that they are having you work on for them. Would you say its better to focus on just GMs, Fords, or MOPARs or just take whatever I can get. Is it easy to start off since there are not a lot of places doing this kind of work or will people be cautious of you until you have built a few cars and people have seen the work you have done? Is it good to outsource jobs out to other places or have somebody in house to do certain jobs like paint, transmissions, etc. I'm sure I'll think of some more things later to ask.

I personally think its better to try to stick with one brand mainly because you dont need to learn each car as much.

Its kinda hard to expect people to spend a ton of cash without seeing what you can turn out.

The less you can farm out to someone else the better . Remember It will be you shops name on the finished product and the best way Ive found to control quality is to do it youreself. there are gonna be some things you need to farm out , but the less the better.

[bear]

OK I thought of some more. Is it hard to find people who are skilled and interested in working on old cars? Do you look for people who focus on one part of the car or ones that can do everything on the car? Generally how long does it take to get a car done or does that depend on each car? About how many cars do you restore a year? Are there a lot of resto-mods or stock restorations? Do people mostly bring you a car they want you to restore or do you have to find one for them?

[BlueSS454]

It's easier to find someone that specializes in 1 aspect of a car if you plan on doing this for income.  Also, generally speaking, bodymen are not mechanics and mechanics are not bodymen.  I happen to be fortunate enough to be able to restore a car myself from sheetmetal work to paint to interiors (headliners and seats) to engine building, chassis, etc.  The only thing I won't do are convertible tops and automatic transmissions.  How long a car takes depends on what you are starting with.  Say you have something complete, but a rust bucket.  You're probably looking anywhere from 400-500 hours of labor from start to finish.  If it's incomplete but not a rust bucket, you're going to spend more time chasing parts down to finish it....case and point with my Charger. 
Take a full frame car for example like a Chevelle.  You can have the completed chassis in about a week, engine, trans and rear done in a week and have a completed frame ready to be slid back under the car in less than 3 weeks provided the money is there to pay for parts.  Or if it's chosen to go another route, you can guy those 3 drivetrain components already done and ready to install.
Another thing to consider would be to pickup random, desirable cars whenever they can be had for a fair price as resto projects and just sit on them until someone comes to you looking for one in particular....this is where advertising comes in handy .  There are many routes to take with a venture like this.  I'd love to get into this myself, I just don't have the resources to be able to do it right now.

[bull]

I'd say the best way to find out if you might like this line of work is to get a job at a body shop or resto shop and watch it all happen first-hand. Most career counselors will tell you it's a good idea to job shadow to learn about a certain career even before getting a job working in that field.

[bear]

I'd say the best way to find out if you might like this line of work is to get a job at a body shop or resto shop and watch it all happen first-hand. Most career counselors will tell you it's a good idea to job shadow to learn about a certain career even before getting a job working in that field.

A few years back I did shadow a guy who works at a museum's shop where they did all the work on their cars there. That day I helped the guys there work on I believe an Auburn or something like that. Not to mention they had a bunch of really rare cars there as well.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I used to work at a restoration shop - shop closing due to my boss's dumbass mistakes----    anyway - I think specializing in one field is good however what I found was mopars are limited especially compared to ford or chevy. Plus when you're next to other people who have the "name" it is hard to overthrow that (I work around Pure Vision and an hour from Julius) - what pisses me off is the fact these guys get paid insane money to do decent work - not amazing work - but decent...     Julius is the biggest prick I've met in a while and I've had to go over cars he's done and fix things....   

Customers...     are a love / hate relationship....     love them because they pay your bills but hate them because they are whiny bitches   

[aussiemuscle]

What... you don't watch Wrecks to Riches? 

[Charger-Bodie]

I used to work at a restoration shop - shop closing due to my boss's dumbass mistakes----    anyway - I think specializing in one field is good however what I found was mopars are limited especially compared to ford or chevy. Plus when you're next to other people who have the "name" it is hard to overthrow that (I work around Pure Vision and an hour from Julius) - what pisses me off is the fact these guys get paid insane money to do decent work - not amazing work - but decent...     Julius is the biggest prick I've met in a while and I've had to go over cars he's done and fix things....   

Customers...     are a love / hate relationship....     love them because they pay your bills but hate them because they are whiny bitches   

I personally dont find people to be very whiney at-all.

[bear]

Another thing I thought of what is the going rate per hour for your work? I have heard $50 and $75 from two different places. And Brian do you want to take a stab at these questions as well

OK I thought of some more. Is it hard to find people who are skilled and interested in working on old cars? Do you look for people who focus on one part of the car or ones that can do everything on the car? Generally how long does it take to get a car done or does that depend on each car? About how many cars do you restore a year? Are there a lot of resto-mods or stock restorations? Do people mostly bring you a car they want you to restore or do you have to find one for them?

[Charger-Bodie]

My shops resto work consists of fill in So I cant honestly answer some of you question about cars per year etc.

But , to answer the one about finding people willing to do resto work; I feel that is is getting harder and harder to find someone who wants to spend the kinda time that it takes to do a car correctly weather it be concours or resto-mod.

Our labor rate for resto work is 45.00 per hour and we will do a car from start to finish or just paint and body or just metal work ....whatever.

Ive never had to locate a car for someone they have always supplied the car to be started with.

[restoman]

I recently closed my little resto/body shop and I can tell you its a pretty rough go trying to make a decent living.
The work is easy to get, there are plenty of willing customers out there if you're good at what you do. We were always busy. But being busy is no guarantee of success.
The big problems you'll face are:
a) First and foremost, its VERY difficult to find good employees - I mean qualified and conscientious employees willing to do the best job they can do. Not everyone can work on the older stuff, it takes very specific skills and attitudes. The good ones are few and far between, the bad ones are everywhere. If you're a talented guy yourself, it'll take a tremndous amount of work if you want to do everything - there isn't enough time in the day to get everything done. Take it from me. I learned this the hard way. I'm a top bodyman & painter in anybody's shop, yet I didn't know nearly enough about the business end of things. If you're on the shop floor, the front office gets neglected, if you're in the office, the employees wil try to walk all over you.
b) To operate a legal, compliant shop is very expensive. From labour laws to insurances, to booth permits and disposal fees, the money going out the door can be staggering. It has to come in before it can go out, so pay attention to the above comments in a).
c) You need to know the numbers of your business. Every nickel spent has to return a profit. If you're not getting some kind of return, well, the best shop out there isn't going to last long. This is what killed me, don't let it happen to you.
d) To stay in the resto business, you will need to realize, and convince your customers, that you are not just another bodyshop. Resto shops do not do collision work, and collison shops do not do resto work. Don't let yourself fall into the trap of trying to compete dollar-for-dollar for different types of service. Resto work is very detail oriented, collision work is not. Some shops can swing back and forth, but I guarantee, if they are collision based, they turn no profits on resto work. And vice versa.
e) You'll need to be among the best in the business, but even that will be no guarantee of success. The almighty dollar will dictate what work you ultimately get. Don't ever forget that there are quite a few shops out there - legitimate and otherwise - that do good work. If the work is comparable, price may be the deciding factor. Don't be afraid to charge for what you do, but realize that there will always be someone out there who can do it cheaper, and they might be getting your work.
f) You need to love what you do and have a real passion for cars. People pick up on this, believe me. It'll be a big part of how busy you are and the reputation you end up with.

[dads_69]

I work for a collision/restoration shop. I've been in the business for over 24 years. Run for the hills, don't get into auto body.
That's my 

[bear]

Restoman I know what you mean about the office part of the work I am right now taking a bunch of business classes and even took a few in high school. I know a place that had to let one guy go that was doing resto work at a repair shop but there was also the fact they had a very high rate as well. How big of a place did you have and about how much did it cost to keep the place running if you don't mind me asking. I realized today that there is very little to no places in my area that do this kind of work which could be either god or bad for me.

I work for a collision/restoration shop. I've been in the business for over 24 years. Run for the hills, don't get into auto body.
That's my 

Why's that?

[hemi-hampton]

I didn't want to comment to this thread because to many varying opinions & varying conditions. Hard to pinpoint a Answer. I could ramble on a book here but I wont. I'll just say my opinion varies between Restomans & Dads_ 69. LEON.

[dads_69]

Auto body/paint work is either in your blood or its not. Like double H just said, I could write a book right here and now but I won't about auto body.
Do I have passion for my work, yes, do I wish I did something else for a living, sometimes, very much so.
Its been said, once you find a job you love to do, its not work after that.

Another on line member here emailed me photos of his charger he has been restoring into a clone, it moved me, finally, again. About how I feel about restoring muscle cars and I thanked him for that. I didn't help him at all w/his project, but he helped me realize why I do what I do for other people vs. myself, he is on cloud 9 still and he should be cause I am if hes not what he has accomplished.



Mark

[TUFCAT]

I think restoman nailed it.   

its VERY difficult to find good employees.....The good ones are few and far between, the bad ones are everywhere.

To operate a legal, compliant shop is very expensive.....Every nickel spent has to return a profit.

Resto shops do not do collision work, and collison shops do not do resto work.....Some shops can swing back and forth, but I guarantee, if they are collision based, they turn no profits on resto work.

You'll need to be among the best in the business

Don't be afraid to charge for what you do, but realize that there will always be someone out there who can do it cheaper

You need to love what you do and have a real passion for cars.

GOOD POINTS!

[69bronzeT5]

I'd love to open my own restoration shop one day. It's one of my dreams. If the musician thing dosen't work out, I think that's what I'm gonna get it to. I already has a friend who says he'd work for me

[WingCharger]

I wouldn't mind opening a AMC and MoPar Truck Restoration Shop/Diesel Performance Shop one day. It wouldn't be anything huge. Just a two bay building with a lift.
It will probably never happen though.

[Charger-Bodie]

I think restoman nailed it.   

its VERY difficult to find good employees.....The good ones are few and far between, the bad ones are everywhere.

To operate a legal, compliant shop is very expensive.....Every nickel spent has to return a profit.

Resto shops do not do collision work, and collison shops do not do resto work.....Some shops can swing back and forth, but I guarantee, if they are collision based, they turn no profits on resto work.

You'll need to be among the best in the business

Don't be afraid to charge for what you do, but realize that there will always be someone out there who can do it cheaper

You need to love what you do and have a real passion for cars.

GOOD POINTS!

I agree with you guys on the employee thing! That's why My shop is a 2 person shop,and we own the place 50/50 My partner is my first cousin and this works VERY well for us. Alot of partnerships do not work well ,but ours does.

You are also right about there not being alot of profit in resto at a collision shop. As backwords as it may sound we use the resto work as fill in to get us thru the slow times in collision work. We don't get rich doing it but we stay fed and We turn out something to be proud of when its finished.

That brings me to my next point to touch on what Mark (dads69) said about running for the hills.

There are alot worse things to do,BUT if you are looking to get rich Autobody is not gonna be for you......It is a comfortable living but not a lucrative as  some other occupations......It is however a VERY rewarding job in the aspect that you can be very proud of what you end up with at the end of a project, and that's what I love about it. I can truly say that I love going to work (almost) every day.

[TUFCAT]

Well, If I lived in Iowa instead of Michigan, I'd definately give you my business. Fortunately (for me) I know Hemi Hampton --- and he's got first dibs on my resto business.

[Charger-Bodie]

Well, If I lived in Iowa instead of Michigan, I'd definately give you my business. Fortunately (for me) I know Hemi Hampton --- and he's got first dibs on my resto business.

Honestly We never go out looking for Resto work. There is so many people wanting MoPars done in this area that we have to turn them (and other brands too) away constantly.


And also our collision work load has gotten constantly larger year after year to the point where we almost dont have time for resto anymore anyway.

[hemi-hampton]

1hot68, Thought you were located in San Francisco California area, Or is that someone else? LEON.

[bear]

I had a feeling finding good people to work for me would be a problem. I would have to find somebody to do the body work because I don't have the patience to sand and paint a car and I am way to picky with my own work. And the two people that I know that have been restoring cars all their lives have both moved away due to family issues.

[Charger-Bodie]

1hot68, Thought you were located in San Francisco California area, Or is that someone else? LEON.

Ive been here in Iowa all the time.

[68RRFlyer]

This is rather long and winded ( I have a lot of Irish in me  ), but I think it may answer some of your questions.  I started my own part time restoration shop about 4 months ago.  I've been restoring cars for over 15 years and have worked on all the big three autos.  Now, this is not my primary means of income, so my  may be a little different than the rest who've started a shop full time.  I decided to start a shop for several reasons.  First and foremost, I love working on these old cars (no matter the make or model) and found myself always buying, restoring, then selling my cars and almost never driving them.  I enjoy the build WAY more than the driving.  Taking a rusted hulk and restoring it to showroom new, or taking a custom idea and making it become reality is really my cup of tea.  I thought to myself, "Self. You should start working on other people's cars that way it's not me always buying a new car all the time for something new to work on."  The second reason for starting my shop is a fallback plan.  In this economy (and my particular field of full time work) it's best to have something else you can do just in case one thing falters.  And the third reason I started a shop was to achieve a personal goal of being my own boss. 

How did I start my endeavour?  I really just opened up the phonebook and started calling around for rental shops.  I also kept an eye out around my area for commercial rental sites.  Can't have a shop without a shop!  Why rent?  With it being a part time thing for now, I wanted to give it a trial run for the first year to see if it was a worthwhile venue.  If it turned out not to be, then all I was out was rent for a year (and it's month to month, no lease) so I wasn't going to be stuck with a long term lease or worse yet, land I had to pay a mortgage on!  I finally found a shop I liked then took the next step.   I came up with a name and registered it at the court house.  I designed and sketched my own logo then made business cards, and the last big thing was the website.  I decided to design my own using Yahoo Small Business.  Maybe in another year I'll have one designed by a big name guy, but for now, it fits the bill and looks professional.  I have a friend who runs a t-shirt business so I made some t-shirts and some work clothes all sporting my logo.  You can still look the part even with a small budget!  .  I started with the tools I had in my garage from years of working on cars and as money started to come in from jobs, bought more tools. So that in a nutshell, is how I started my restoration shop.   

I'm a one man shop and advertise as such.  I have no employees so I don't have that headache to deal with.  All work is done by me.  I do everything except major engine/trans rebuilds.  I only take on two full time cars per year, and about three or four smaller jobs on the side.  That's it.  Someone mentioned about offering something the others do not.  Couldn't be more spot on than that.   I offer my customers the assurance that their car gets worked on and not tucked into a corner and will never be put behind a higher dollar job, and a HUGE thing that everyone likes: constant communication with the customer.  Weekly calls, detailed invoices, and regular emails.  The feedback I've gotten from that has been overwhelming.  Some guys want the smaller shops to do their work which allows more interaction with the customer.  That's the customers I tend to attract and I have been turning business away as a result of being a smaller shop.  Right now, I have a 1968 Charger R/T and a 1972 Ford Bronco getting full restorations.  I also have a 67 GTO, 70 Chevelle, and a 69 Super Bee lined up to get some metal work done at three month intervals all year. 
     

What about specializing on a certain car?  That's both good and bad.  The good is you can really concentrate your knowledge on one make.  The bad is you may turn away more business than you get.  I take a different approach to it.  I look at it all as a learning experience.  I was a die hard 60's Mustang guy for a long time.  Then I bought a 68 Road Runner which I replaced more metal on than Pittsburg can smelt in a week, it seemed.  Anyrate, I learned a ton about dates codes, deciphering markings, etc. that I had no clue about in the Mopar realm.  The enthusiasm I showed toward learning, researching, and the quality of work I showcased on my cardomain sites, landed my first customer and his 68 Charger R/T.  The opposite spectrum: The 72 Bronco.  My second customer saw that I don't just cater towards one make and specialize in all old cars.  He was looking for a small specialized shop and one that he could deal with on a one to one level.  That and the showcase of work I have, led to taking on my second full restoration only after being in business for two months.   The jist of that would be if I specialized in one make, I may or may not have another fulltime car right now.  I find passion in all the old cars which keeps the motivation high.  Do what makes you happy, but sometimes that may not be the best business sense.

Hope that helps and maybe gives you another shop owner's perspective on things.  Good luck!!

Cheers

       

[69bronzeT5]

1hot68, Thought you were located in San Francisco California area, Or is that someone else? LEON.

Leon, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Alex (Rolling Thunder)

[Rolling_Thunder]

1hot68, Thought you were located in San Francisco California area, Or is that someone else? LEON.

Leon, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Alex (Rolling Thunder)

I'm in Los Angeles...    He's thinking of the guy with the flat black Charger that he just got on the road (name escapes me) 

[Charger-Bodie]

1hot68, Thought you were located in San Francisco California area, Or is that someone else? LEON.

Leon, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Alex (Rolling Thunder)

I'm in Los Angeles...    He's thinking of the guy with the flat black Charger that he just got on the road (name escapes me) 

SFRT?

[hemi-hampton]

I'm thinking of the guy that has the Black Charger that looks like the Bullit car & I thought he lived in San Fran & Always talking about the bullit movie, ect. LEON.

[69bronzeT5]

1hot68, Thought you were located in San Francisco California area, Or is that someone else? LEON.

Leon, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Alex (Rolling Thunder)

I'm in Los Angeles...    He's thinking of the guy with the flat black Charger that he just got on the road (name escapes me) 

My bad Alex Then yeah, it sounds like he is talking about Frank (SFRT)

[Charger-Bodie]

I'm thinking of the guy that has the Black Charger that looks like the Bullit car & I thought he lived in San Fran & Always talking about the bullit movie, ect. LEON.

LEON, I have a black 68 Charger R/T clone (it has red interior though) and it was used to do some shooting for a TV series where they built a Bullitt Mustang for Chad Mcqueen . But I dont really talk about the Movie bullitt that much nor is my car really supposed to be a Bullitt clone.

But as I said before Im not real sure how you got Cali? As Ive been here freezin in Iowa.

[bear]

Thanks for all your answers so far guys I am sure there are a ton of other questions to ask but I just cant think of any now.

[hemi-hampton]

Yeah, Thats the car & shop, Sorry, For some reason I thought you were in San Fran Cali? My Mistake. LEON.