Anybody running a .509" cam in a 440 on the street?

[grouseman]

My only experience with a 10.5 CR 440 and the Mopar 509 cam was that it was too radical for the street in an auto trans Charger - it was a dog for any kind of street duty except wide open throttle.  We moved down to a .484" and it transformed the whole engine.  Strong as hell, rumpity, and still responded to throttle below 3,000 rpm. 

Any other experience? 

grouseman

[kamkuda]

I had one in my Cuda.  I would say, not a great street cam.  There are much better street grinds available.

[Duey]

I have one in mine...hence the "rump, rump, rump" below my avatar.

It's not the best street cam if you're not set up right...I wasn't right with power brakes, a 3.23 SG rear and a 2500 stall converter...I will be right with the 4.10 SG I bought from firefighter3931 and a 3800rpm TA 10" tight convertor from Summit.

I personally love the way an old .509 sounds (vice the new one ground on 112 or 114* centers).  I just have to get a vacuum pump or resevoir for the brakes...

I'm looking forward to putting the new bits in the beast when I get home in the spring.  I know there are better grinds out there today, but a  509 for me sounds exactly like what a big muscle car should sound like.

Cheers,
Duey

[cudaken]

 I have a 509 in my 68 Road Runner, does two things well. Idles like a can full of rocks and good WOT. One thing I did do is install a bolt behind the carb mounting point on the kick down side control. Make the Runner shift later and makes it easyer to live with.

I love the old 284 cam and should have left it in the Runner. But we know how that goes, all wise looking for something better.

                           Cuda Ken

[BrianShaughnessy]

I got one...  I'm changing it out for the 528 solid shortly.    It's not the best choice for auto trans car. 

[Duey]

I got one...  I'm changing it out for the 528 solid shortly.    It's not the best choice for auto trans car. 

Brian, with .028" lash, a 528 solid is effectively a .500" lift cam....is it being ground on wider centers and thus a smoother idle that makes you want to change?

Cheers
Duey

[BrianShaughnessy]

I got one...   I'm changing it out for the 528 solid shortly.      It's not the best choice for auto trans car.  

Brian, with .028" lash, a 528 solid is effectively a .500" lift cam....is it being ground on wider centers and thus a smoother idle that makes you want to change?

Cheers
Duey

Something like that...     I'd like just a bit better response just below and around 2000 rpm for using 5th gear at 55-60.   The 509 falls off right at 5500 and also cold starts and idle kinda suck.   

[firefighter3931]

I got one...   I'm changing it out for the 528 solid shortly.      It's not the best choice for auto trans car.  

 

Brian, that is a big step in the right direction   especially for the type of driving you like to do and the way your car is set up. The 509 has 250* duration at .050 valve lift....the 528 has 241* @ .050 but when you factor in lash it's closer to 235* @ .050. That is a huge difference and the wider lsa on the 528 (112 vs 108) also makes a significant difference in idle quality and low speed drivability. The 528 makes monster torque and still pulls hard to 6k   Your engine will be real close to it's sweet spot cruising along with this cam in overdrive instead of 1000 rpm shy of it's powerband, which is the case with the 509.  

The 509 works well with the right combo and hits hard right at 3500 rpm in a 440. So basicly to be happy with this grind you want a 3500 stall and 3.91 or deeper gears. Of course idle vacuum is non-existent so power brakes are a PITA with this cam....if you intend to use them.

Ron

[MoparMotel]

I dont want to high jack your thread but i have a 69 R/T SE 440 console auto and was going to put a .509 cam in mine. Would .484 be a better choice for my car?


Thanks Nick

[Kryp2nitE]

add another one to the 509 street group

[cudaken]

 MoparMotel, I love the 484 cam. With 3.23 gears and 2200 stall it moved the Road Runner pretty dam good. But, I hate to use this term, the 284 cam is old school ( ) and there is more than likely better cams made now. Ron and Neil booth love Eagle cams.

I was running a Reed Cam 410-TM272H-TM282H-114A2 (think that is the part number) 69 Charger. Pretty close to a stock HP 440/383 cam but set up for a blower. Bottom in was great, with 2.76 Sure gripp 2400 stall and 11" tires of idle could rip the hides 20 feet +. No power power breaking and stock 72 intake. Had 9.03 to 1 compression. If you know my name, you know what happen to the 440.

Might talk to Dennis at Reed Cams. 1-770-474-7320.

509, not for a sort of mild maner steet car unless you have a stick and 3.91 gears. Sure sounds K--king cool.

Brain, I drove a friends 69 Runner with the 528 stick with a 4 banger. Riped the hides in all 4 gears and short shifting at 3500 RPMs. Had a puke in a 5.0 Mustang that thought he wanted to play, after short shoting in traffic he thought driffrent when the road cleared. Did not think much of the Runner till I drove it, idle was, well a little tame.

                           Ken, your friend.

[IBsmokin]

I heard the 509 works great in the 400 block especially if you are running it with a 440 crank.

[Chryco Psycho]

I prefer the 484 to the 509 in most applications , the 528 mech is an awesome cam make great power

[Big Sugar]

Hey Guys
I'm running a .509 cam, If I switch out to a .528 what will I see in performance gains ? 1/4 mile
Will the cam be a simple Re&Re or do I get a valve train upgrade as well.

I've got a .30 over 440 six pak with 10.5:1 comp My 452  heads are fully ported,matchedand polished. I'm pushing a 727 w/cheetah valve body, 3000 TCI.  thru a 8.3/4  S/G 3:91  rear end.
Right now the Charger Pulls hard straight thru 5500 rpm
                            Torque peaked at 425 at 3400 rpm   
                                H/P  peaked at 350 at 6000 rpm
Torque and Hp cross over at 320 H/P &ft-lbs at  5300 rpm All at the rear wheels


I'm sending the Six pak to Promax this winter to be Restored and Dyno'd as well as adding the 
"Max Pak" upgrade.

Ron

[cudaken]

 528 is a solid lifter cam. Yes rockers and arms won't work but you know that, well I hope. MP rockers would work fine but if you are going to buy, might as well get the roller stuff. But the MP stuff was fine for the Hemi.

                         Cuda Ken

[Big Sugar]

Any ideas on performance ? Am I going to put too much down too early , Right now with the .509 I get a solid launch with  easily controlled wheelspin.







Ron

[firefighter3931]

Any ideas on performance ? Am I going to put too much down too early , Right now with the .509 I get a solid launch with   easily controlled wheelspin.

Ron

Ron, it will idle a lot nicer and the street manners will be improved. It will make a lot more TQ down low and pull good to 6k. This is a very nice street cam for most applications. I see it as an improvement over the 509 for your combo.

Ron

[1970440RT]

     I have a 509 in an e-headed 440.  Auto trans, 3000 stall, & 4.10 rear.  I have power brakes and haven't had any problems yet.  I can smoke the tires at will and overall the car can really run.  I've never second guessed this cam until reading the responses from Ron and Chryc.  Is this cam not a good choice?  Can better be had?  When building this motor, I figured it to be a good choice for a hydraulic.  I'm always looking to go faster but I didn't want to spring for adjustable rockers.  I always thought the next step after this cam would be a solid or a roller ($$$$).  Am I going about this the wrong way?

[SeattleCharger]

      

[cudaken]

 SeattleChargerDog, you don't even want to think about it! When I was telling you to get the part number of the cam before you bought it? I was more afraid you would get this cam. I take your broom stick with knots cam over the 509.

                                            Cuda Ken

[SeattleCharger]

     I have been trying to decide which cam to use.   The one I bought is 260/260 duration 430/430 lift.

  Considering the MP P4120235. Has 284/284 duration and 484/484 lift.  

       I talked to the guy I bought the cam from again.   Might go get the cast iron spread bore to go with the thermoquad 850.

He was saying the bigger cam will idle badly and won't get off the line very well and will foul my plugs all the time doing the stop light to stop light type driving around here.   Unless I wind up the rpm's frequently to clear them out.   But if first gear shifts around fifty or higher, won't prob. happen hardly ever driving around W. Seattle.   Says the torque and low end is what gets the car off the line, gets it moving, recommended I would prob. like the smaller cam.     Ya, smooth idle, I don't know.   So I have the 2500 stall, I don't know.   Too bad I can't drive two cars built two ways.   But I   haven't.     I am leaning towards using the smaller cam and switching rockers later if I don't like it, since I can't go smaller than 1.5 on the rockers.   Sort of like, can always drill a bigger hole, but can't make one smaller.     I would have to buy that new cam anyways, since I already have this one I can spend the cam dough on the rockers.  Input or info welcome.  Just trying to learn here.   I need some muscle car friends around here to drive their cars, lol.  

[8WHEELER]

You will need to do a proper tune on what ever combo you run. I drove my red car to
South Seattle for College every day for 3yrs starting in 1980 from Bellevue. I had 10-1 comp
at first with the 484 cam Holley Street Dominator 800 Holley, 2600 stall 323 gear's for the most
part. I did jump to 12.5 to 1 within the first year of school there, I never fouled a spark plug
the hole time I was going there, but I did get some freeway miles on 1-90 to Bellevue but its
really not that far then back to stop light to stop light again.
But with todays gas I would not go over 9.5 for a daily street car. The larger the cam and the
larger the carb the more accurate your tune will have to be for a good street engine.

You might consider the 272 cam that is the next cam I am going to try. It is supposed to have
good vacuum for your brakes and still a bit of that lumpy cam sound we like. I have heard
a few, one was actually pretty smooth but the other two sounded lumpy, not like the 484
but you can't have everything.

Dan

[firefighter3931]

    I have been trying to decide which cam to use.   The one I bought is 260/260 duration 430/430 lift.

  Considering the MP P4120235. Has 284/284 duration and 484/484 lift.  

       I talked to the guy I bought the cam from again.   Might go get the cast iron spread bore to go with the thermoquad 850.

He was saying the bigger cam will idle badly and won't get off the line very well and will foul my plugs all the time doing the stop light to stop light type driving around here.   Unless I wind up the rpm's frequently to clear them out.   But if first gear shifts around fifty or higher, won't prob. happen hardly ever driving around W. Seattle.   Says the torque and low end is what gets the car off the line, gets it moving, recommended I would prob. like the smaller cam.     Ya, smooth idle, I don't know.   So I have the 2500 stall, I don't know.   Too bad I can't drive two cars built two ways.   But I   haven't.     I am leaning towards using the smaller cam and switching rockers later if I don't like it, since I can't go smaller than 1.5 on the rockers.   Sort of like, can always drill a bigger hole, but can't make one smaller.     I would have to buy that new cam anyways, since I already have this one I can spend the cam dough on the rockers.   Input or info welcome.   Just trying to learn here.     I need some muscle car friends around here to drive their cars, lol.  

The 284/484 is too big for a stock 383-400 engine inmo. It will feel real soft on the bottom end, especially with a heavy car, unless you're using a 3000+ stall and 4.10 gears. Those old MP grinds are past their prime....much better stuff out there. The Crower HDP271 would be my choice for what you're looking to do with this car. It's a split pattern grind 222/234 on a wide lobe center (112*) to flatten out the powerband. It makes good power everywhere....not just at 3000+ Rpm. Engle also has some nice modern profiles that work much better than the ancient dinosaur era MP stuff.  

Ron

[8WHEELER]

Hey Ron
Have you tried the MP 272 cam?? I have heard good things about it but not anything at all on this site.
I know its been around a long time as well but I have never run one yet, I did purchase one a couple
years back for the engine I am going to put in my all stock QQ1 68 RT. I was just going to put a
little lump in it but the rest bone stock. And like I said the MP 272 cam was promoted as a good mild cam.
I have no loyalty really to mopar cams just have been told it was a good one.

Dan

[firefighter3931]

Hey Ron
Have you tried the MP 272 cam?? I have heard good things about it but not anything at all on this site.
I know its been around a long time as well but I have never run one yet, I did purchase one a couple
years back for the engine I am going to put in my all stock QQ1 68 RT. I was just going to put a
little lump in it but the rest bone stock. And like I said the MP 272 cam was promoted as a good mild cam.
I have no loyalty really to mopar cams just have been told it was a good one.

Dan

Hi Dan, i haven't used that grind myself but it looks pretty descent on paper. Just a hair bigger than the factory 4bbl grind. It's a single pattern with wide lobe centers and modest .050 duration numbers....perfect for a stock rebuild with manifolds. Here are the specs :

272/272 advertised
222/222 @ .050
112* lsa
48* overlap
.455/.455 lift

This should work pretty descent for what you're looking to do. Good street manners, lots of manifold vacuum and excellent bottom end power. It will probably have a slight lope but nothing too radical.

Ron