IN or OUT?

[Blown70]

Ok, what is the stock in and out for a Mopar,  I have now two different answers...

So, The reason I have to ask is the Charger will have a remote electric water pump so I do not have to clearance the blower belt.

SO the top ones come out, from the engine

the lower comes from the radiator?

ALSO, I have been told  to run it into the heads first and/or reverse of normail  ANY HIGH PERFORMANCE GUYS?  opinions.

Thanks

[golden73]

From what I hear, doing a reverse flow system will give you about 15hp. Cooler head = cooler air = denser charge = more fuel = more power

[deathcharger71]

i dunno if its the same for cars, but on my jet boat the water has to enter at the lowest point of the engine and exit through the highest point in order to keep air bubbles out of the cooling system. but i guess theres not much possibility of air bubbles getting into the cooling system of a car?

[Blown70]

i dunno if its the same for cars, but on my jet boat the water has to enter at the lowest point of the engine and exit through the highest point in order to keep air bubbles out of the cooling system. but i guess theres not much possibility of air bubbles getting into the cooling system of a car?

Well that answers the question but with the remote I do not think it matters.... I just have to pump out of the bottom of the RAD....

Thanks,  BTW bet the boat is fun

[firefighter3931]

SO the top ones come out, from the engine

the lower comes from the radiator?

ALSO, I have been told   to run it into the heads first and/or reverse of normail   ANY HIGH PERFORMANCE GUYS?   opinions.

Thanks

Hi Tom, you are correct....the inlet is at the bottom of the waterpump housing. That is why the lower rad hose will have a spring wound inside to prevent the hose from collapsing at high engine speeds when the waterpump is drawing coolant into the motor.

Reverse cooling helps to keep the cylinder heads cooler by having the water pass through them first....then down to the block. With the normal coolant routing, the fluid enters the block first and hits the heads last so it has reached a higher temperature. Reverse cooling will often allow a higher compression engine use lower grade fuel and still be knock (predetonation) resistant.

Ron

[cudaken]

 Dam Ron and Tom, never read that the Bible before.

                         Learing again, Cuda Ken

[Runner]

what all is required to go to a reverse flow system?.    you surely wouldnt be sucking from the top hose would you?.  if so i bet its a bitch getting all the air out of the system

[Blown70]

what all is required to go to a reverse flow system?.      you surely wouldnt be sucking from the top hose would you?.   if so i bet its a bitch getting all the air out of the system

Realize this, I am running a remote electic,  Mezinere(spelling).  That way I will still run out the bottom of the radiatior but go into the head first and out the bottom block ones to the top of the radiator...  I will need to Y block them I believe....I will let you know when I am done, I need to call them to see if they have the correct part I have not seen what I need from Earl's.

[Blown70]

SO the top ones come out, from the engine

the lower comes from the radiator?

ALSO, I have been told   to run it into the heads first and/or reverse of normail   ANY HIGH PERFORMANCE GUYS?   opinions.

Thanks

Ron,
Shall I assume then the bottom holes on the block enter the block first ie, the correct routing.... Via the top holes into the head?  I do not have a stock pump around so I cannot visually see what I am thinking.

Thanks

Tom
Hi Tom, you are correct....the inlet is at the bottom of the waterpump housing. That is why the lower rad hose will have a spring wound inside to prevent the hose from collapsing at high engine speeds when the waterpump is drawing coolant into the motor.

Reverse cooling helps to keep the cylinder heads cooler by having the water pass through them first....then down to the block. With the normal coolant routing, the fluid enters the block first and hits the heads last so it has reached a higher temperature. Reverse cooling will often allow a higher compression engine use lower grade fuel and still be knock (predetonation) resistant.

Ron

[deathcharger71]

Thanks,   BTW bet the boat is fun

like a hot rod on the water  and sadly just as many things brake on the jet boat as they do on the charger, truely a water rod haha

[Runner]

blown the bottom holes for the water pump go right into the cylender area, infact you can stick your fingers right down in and touch #1 and #2 cylenders with your finger(assuming you have long fingers) the top holes go right into the heads.  is that what your asking?

[firefighter3931]

blown the bottom holes for the water pump go right into the cylender area, infact you can stick your fingers right down in and touch #1 and #2 cylenders with your finger(assuming you have long fingers) the top holes go right into the heads.   is that what your asking?

I must have misread the question and assumed you were asking about the waterpump housing and not the water passages in the block.  Mike is correct; the lower holes feed directly into the waterjacket in the block. Assuming you wanted reverse flow cooling the inlet would be on the upper holes to have the coolant reach the heads first, i would think.

Ron

[Blown70]

Well that is what I figured but I really hate doing things twice....SO I thought I would ask to be sure.,,,, and I think my fingers are too big to fit in those holes.... or I have a feeling I may not GET my finger back out..... I could not imagine sitting in my shop all night.

Ron, yes that was part of the question,

I will reverse the flow as I have been told by a lot of HP guys to do so. 

THANKS!!

[Ghoste]

So why is it block first with oem?

[Blown70]

So why is it block first with oem?

What are you saying here?  That is does not go through the block first? 

[Ghoste]

No, no.  I'm asking why the manufacturer flows the coolant a certain way if the performance guys have determined reverse flow to be better?

[Blown70]

No, no.   I'm asking why the manufacturer flows the coolant a certain way if the performance guys have determined reverse flow to be better?

Ohhh well that is a good question?   I would suggest that the holes need to be there, and therefore they have left them in the position, and you or I   the new owner of such block can do as we may.   As you know not everyone always will agree on the way to do things.  

I planned on a KB alum. block and I know some will use these in a stock redo, as it is about 100 or more lbs lighter than Mega block, and will use a stock water pump.

Also, I think all the water pumps are of course made to run a certain way....

VERY GOOD QUESTION GHOSTE?  

Tom

[Ghoste]

I guess another question on my mind would be, how long has this been in vogue?  Is this something savvy racers have been doing since the 60's or a more recent thing? 

[Blown70]

I guess another question on my mind would be, how long has this been in vogue?   Is this something savvy racers have been doing since the 60's or a more recent thing?  

As far as I know more recent.   I do not know if anything was done BACK in the day or not.   This would have to be direct at people that used to race.   I really do not know when this first started.... I would guess untill the advent of the Electric water pump it would hot have been possible unless you re tool the water pump housing?

I surely cannot answer when this came in,   ANYONE

[firefighter3931]

So why is it block first with oem?

My guess is that it's easier to keep air out of the cooling system by having the water flow from below. A stock pump might cavitate at higher rpm trying to force fluid through the heads first....then into the block. Remember these engine designs are 40 + years old and for the mostpart were built for milder power levels and performance than we are now pushing through them. In the good old days we had 104 octane leaded fuel available at the pumps so reverse flow cooling would have been a non-issue with production engines. Nowadays we have to work with unleaded oxygenated reformulated crap so the rules have changed. The oem designed cooling system still works fine for most applications....but if you want to push the compression ratio envelope, reverse flow cooling will help.   

Ron

[Ghoste]

Hmmm, with all the posts about heating problems, it just may be a consideration for everyday drivers too.  Of course, the compression envelope is being pushed with anything more than 9 to 1 isn't it?

[Blown70]

Hmmm, with all the posts about heating problems, it just may be a consideration for everyday drivers too.   Of course, the compression envelope is being pushed with anything more than 9 to 1 isn't it?

Well maybe that is why someone tried it... Who knows.  I just know with what I am running I do not want to over heat.  I have a twin fan 4 core alum, Ron Davis racing radiator and 55 GPM electic pump.  I may have to slow the flow possibly,  Time will tell


Tom

[firefighter3931]

  Of course, the compression envelope is being pushed with anything more than 9 to 1 isn't it?

With iron heads and no quench i'd say 9.5:1 is pretty much the safe limit. Of course cam timing will influence dynamic compression and long duration sticks bleed off more cylinder pressure so it's possible to get away with more. Building the engine with tight quench helps a lot and allows for more static compression to be built into the motor. A flattop piston with a closed chamber head is the hot ticket for pump gas street combos. A c/r of 10.5:1 with .040 quench works fine with aluminum heads on the street with 93ul fuel. Some get away with more compression but that's pushing the envelope, inmo. The minimal HP gains with half a point of compression aren't worth the hassle if you end up having to retard the timing or mix in race fuel. 

Ron

[Ghoste]

Well, that's what Larry Shepherd at Direct Connection said for years.  A lower compression motor using optimum timing would always make more power than a high compression mill that was retarded.

[hemigeno]

Here's a possible scenario as to why MaMopar had the coolant enter the block first...

If the coolant hits the cylinder head first, suddenly adding a lot of cold coolant to a hot engine would be more likely to crack a cylinder head.   As stated, the heads are the hottest part of an engine and landing the coolant there first without "tempering" it by running it through the block first would increase the chances of cracking a head IMHO.

That scenario may seem remote, especially for the mechanically inclined among us.   Someone less knowledgeable might try a roadside repair of duct tape around a busted radiator hose, and then filling the radiator back up with wellwater from someone's spigot.   If the water pump sent the coolant to the heads first, you could have a problem.   Worse yet, Chrysler might have had to fix it under warranty.

It's at least a possibility...

[deathcharger71]

Here's a possible scenario as to why MaMopar had the coolant enter the block first...

If the coolant hits the cylinder head first, suddenly adding a lot of cold coolant to a hot engine would be more likely to crack a cylinder head.   As stated, the heads are the hottest part of an engine and landing the coolant there first without "tempering" it by running it through the block first would increase the chances of cracking a head IMHO.

That scenario may seem remote, especially for the mechanically inclined among us.   Someone less knowledgeable might try a roadside repair of duct tape around a busted radiator hose, and then filling the radiator back up with wellwater from someone's spigot.   If the water pump sent the coolant to the heads first, you could have a problem.   Worse yet, Chrysler might have had to fix it under warranty.

It's at least a possibility...

on my boat the water goes through the exhaust(called log exhaust) to warm up the water and then goes to the bottom of the engine then out the top for that very reason, warm up the water as to not crack the block or heads....but the water is always 75 degrees at best so maybe it wont be as much of a problem with a car?