440 estimate hp and torque

[komninon]

i will have my motor dyno this weekend.
any guess what this compo will make? i will post the results next week.
440
770 avenger
performer rpm intake
440 source stealth heads out of the box
440 source 1.5 roller rockers
10.5 compression
isky cam mega 280 232 485 108
msd

[skip68]

  463HP  491TQ     

[sunroofblacklee]

Very similar to mine, I went with the holley SD, holley 700 carb, source heads, source roller rockers, ultradyne cam, made 470hp and 520tq on the dyno.

[Rolling_Thunder]

My dyno program spat out 451hp and 520tq...    Very close to Sunroof's

[komninon]

what should i expect at the track?
68 charger
373 gear
tko  600

[firefighter3931]

George, that looks like a nice street build. 

I'm assuming that you're planning on running headers, correct ? That being the case it should make in the 450-460hp range & 500+ ftlbs of torque.

what should i expect at the track?
68 charger
373 gear
tko  600

Without knowing the raceweight of the car or what traction devices/tires it has....it's difficult to predict an ET. 

Let's just say if it everything is right and the car/chassis are working as they should....the engine will be making enough power to run mid 12's easy and possibly quicker with additional tuning.



Ron


Ps. Keep an eye on those rockers as well as the retainers/locks.....some guys have had issues with both of those. 

[komninon]

Ron,
i have 1 7/8 headers
the machine shop already changed the retainers and locks and will check the roller rockers.
i am using bfg radial 295-50-15 so, traction will be a problem.
anyway, if i know my car can run under 13s with good traction  i am very happy.

[firefighter3931]

The 1 7/8 in header is an excellent choice. That cam should come on strong at 2500 or so allthough the torque peak will be higher. 

I'm sure it's going to be a blast to drive this car ! 



Ron

[komninon]

machine shop told me two more weeks , so i have to wait for real numbers

[firefighter3931]

machine shop told me two more weeks , so i have to wait for real numbers

George, when you get it dynoed, please post a copy of the dyno sheet and then i'll archive this thread in the Proven Combo's forum. I'm interested to see what kind of numbers the Stealth heads produce with a stock stroke 440. 


Thanks, Ron

[komninon]

my motor is still not ready.
machine shop told me Jan 15.....
then Jan 31st........
then Feb 15.....
now end of the month.
took my motor in in September only to change the heads and put it on the dyno.
don't know how long it takes but don't think it should take 6 months.
will post the dyno results as soon as I have them.

[General_01]

Wow. My shop rebuilt the whole motor in 3 months. Guess you aren't the sqeaky wheel. Hopefully it will be done shortly and you can see what this motor has for you.

[Musicman]

To many unknown variables of course, but the bottom line will come down to how well she flows. Using general flow numbers for a stock set of Stealth heads (what few we've seen) it has the potential to make 447HP & 533 TQ or better depending. Of course if things aren't quite good as they should be, those numbers will run south  rather quickly...

[rav440]

 

[Sublime/Sixpack]

my motor is still not ready.
machine shop told me Jan 15.....
then Jan 31st........
then Feb 15.....
now end of the month.
took my motor in in September only to change the heads and put it on the dyno.
don't know how long it takes but don't think it should take 6 months.
will post the dyno results as soon as I have them.

They've had your engine since September?  For a head swap and dyno?  You must be a very patient person!  Why would a job like that take any longer than a day or two maximum?

[komninon]

well....back in Sept i told him i do not need the engine till Jan. i was doing some body and paint till now, so i needed the storage for my motor anyway. i will have my trans from keisler this week and i hope i will have the motor in two weeks. if i have my car all done by April, i will  be happy.

[komninon]

still waiting......my engine is not done yet.  promised to be ready this week again. weather is getting better here in Chicago.
Speed Service INC does great work but it takes forever.

[komninon]

motor is ready ,but not on the dyno yet. next week i hope.
machine shop end up doing some work on the heads.
valve job
open the runners
mill heads i think .050 to get compression up to 10.6 - 1 with felpro 1105 gaskets.
i will have all the paperwork soon and dyno results.

i hope i see some good numbers with the work that was done to the heads.

[Musicman]

 

[firefighter3931]

motor is ready ,but not on the dyno yet. next week i hope.
machine shop end up doing some work on the heads.
valve job
open the runners
mill heads i think .050 to get compression up to 10.6 - 1 with felpro 1105 gaskets.
i will have all the paperwork soon and dyno results.

i hope i see some good numbers with the work that was done to the heads.

The extra work on the heads is definately worth it....keep us posted George 



Ron

[komninon]

got my motor
440 hp@ 5500rpm
513 torque @ 3700 rpm
i was expecting a little better....

[c00nhunterjoe]

in my opinion the carb and intake are hurting your numbers. plus, more tuning could help you ALOT

[komninon]

i was expecting 460 hp and 520 tq. we did not use spacers or play a lot with it . the torque is above 500 from 3000rpm -4300rpm.  i know a bigger carb and probably a bigger cam and some tuning would be better, but i did not want to change a lot of parts.   i think it is good enough for a street car, that would see the track maybe once a year.

[squeakfinder]

in my opinion the carb and intake are hurting your numbers. plus, more tuning could help you ALOT

Hmm, that's the same carb and intake on mine. I've thought a bigger carb might be necessary for me, but this is the first time (I think) I've heard somebody say something negative about the performer rpm intake. 

[firefighter3931]

Here's a copy of the dyno results that George sent me....looks good ! Luv that nice broad torque curve. Impressive for a stock stroke 440 with a modest cam. 

The RPM manifold is a very good choice for this type of build...flat torque curve and lots of throttle response. For this engine combo it is perfect. 

For some reason this printout stops at 5300 rpm but as George said earlier it made peak power at 5500 and you can still see it climbing. Not sure why they did that but it's irrelevant because we know the results. 

Overall i'd have to say that the results are excellent given the combination of parts. Sure there's more power available with a bigger cam and more carb....but that also changes how the engine would behave. Personally, i wouldn't be in any rush to change the engine combination until after i'd driven the car. My guess is that the owner will be quite pleased with the power and streetability of this build....especially with a stick trans. 



Ron

[Musicman]

Thanks for posting the sheet Ron 
I just wish it had the other data like Air Temp, Dew Point etc,  at time of test... These factors have a big impact on the final numbers.
My puter program actually spit out 439 HP & 515 TQ for this build using typical Dyno conditions, but my torque curve was off a bit; so it was probably more coincidence than science that my numbers turned out so close.

[komninon]

thank you Ron,
actually i am happy with the results .                                                                                                                                                       going from auto to manual tko 600 , 323 gears to 373 gears, better hp and tq, and 40-50 lb less weight, it will run a lot stronger than before.
i own my car 13 years and never took it to the track but i hope it will happen this year.

[komninon]

chassis dyno results:
342 hp    and   404 tq
did it last night with a 670 avenger
what do you think?

[oldschool]

chassis dyno results:
342 hp    and   404 tq
did it last night with a 670 avenger
what do you think?

thats about 23%driveline loss.i always thought theese older cars had more driveline loss than newer cars.i will be chassis dynoing my four speed dana car soon too....

[c00nhunterjoe]

it should be alot of fun with that 5 speed

[elacruze]

[/quote]
thats about 23%driveline loss.i always thought theese older cars had more driveline loss than newer cars.i will be chassis dynoing my four speed dana car soon too....
[/quote]

As a rule of thumb, we always figured about 20% loss between engine and chassis dynomometer readings-on Harley-Davidsons! Jap motorcycles maybe 15%.

Chassis dyno loses a lot just through the tires. I saw a guy pick up 8 hp (on 100) just by changing his street tire to a Bonneville tire. You can affect your chassis dyno numbers by inflating your tires to their max recommended. Problem is above about 600hp. the traction isn't there and you spin up.
Anybody with a ton of chassis dyno experience got input on that?

[c00nhunterjoe]

if thats true would running a skinny tire for the dyno pulls help numbers as well?

[70sixpkrt]

I had my motor dynoed on a stand 4 yrs. ago and it made 491hp and 535 torque. I put it on a chassis dyno 3 months ago and my numbers were 398.8hp and 447.8 torque. That is about 20% loss thru the drivetrain. My car is a 4 speed though.

[elacruze]

if thats true would running a skinny tire for the dyno pulls help numbers as well?

Tough answer. It's a balancing act between rolling resistance, traction, and horsepower. A wide tire will have more traction, but more rolling resistance. A radial tire has much less rolling resistance than a bias-ply tire. The more power you have, the harder you have to pull the car onto the roller-increasing the RR. I'd like to see someone do a direct comparison between say a set of BGF T/A's and a set of drag radials both at maybe 30psi and 50psi, on a car with enough horsepower to spin them both-then you'd see the effects of rolling resistance and tread compound. I can only say that on motorcycles, it always pays to make them as hard as possible until you get in the 250+hp range. I'm interested to see who has any solid car data with this stuff in mind. In reality, I don't expect tire and pressure changes making 8% difference on a car, maybe 1-2%. Maybe less.