72 Charger Chassis stiffening

[Hot_Rodder]

I tried this question over at FBBO with no luck, so I figure I'll ask here.
I'm in the process of gathering parts to build my 505 Stroker with a projected minimum horse power of 600 and a projected torque rating of around 650 ft/lbs. Obviously this car want handle that much power in stock form. So, I've already got new heavy duty leaf springs and bolt in sub frame connectors ( http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CEE-3117&N=700+4294925130+4294839049+4294736044+4294908110+4294908099+4294925079+400079+115&autoview=sku ) on my list of things to get and do to help this car out from twisting into a pretzel, but what else do I need to look into doing? I know welding up the torque boxes will help, but what else? As for the rear axle, one of the things I plan on changing is adding a screw type adjustable pinion snubber, like this one: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/newpr834adpi.html . The leaf springs I'm refering to are these: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/moxbbosetlri.html (assuming that these will fit my '72 since they seem to only list until '71, but I don't think there was a difference in the rear springs on the '71s and '72s).... To be able to run a wider rear tire, I've been thinking of doing a spring relocation kit, any thoughts? Also thought about boxing up the lower control arms: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/locoarmboxpl.html and possibly adding tubular upper control arms: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/ma1e.html . Shock wise I'm undecided, but this car will mostly be on the street so.... As for bushings, I'm wanting to go with poly urethane bushings. I will be replacing the lower ball joints, tie rod ends, ect ect ect. Most of this stuff was supposedly replaced before I got the car, and I did find receipts noting something about suspension parts along with suspension part boxes, but the stuff was a bit of a pita to read, and judging by the dry rotting going on with the parts that are on the car, it was done a little while back so.... For front brakes, this is what I have in mind: http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/630220/10002/-1 and rear brakes: http://www.jegs.com/i/Stainless+Steel+Brakes/884/A155/10002/-1# any input?
I think this shall do for now. This Charger has the original power disc/drum setup on it now, well that is, some of it is still on there, most of it I've removed from the car...... If you've got any questions, comments, concerns, or ideas, let me know. I am planning on running Dougs headers, #452 on this car, so clearance is somewhat of an issue. I will be sticking with the original torsion bar setup, so a coil over suspension kit want really be an option. Look forward to the replies.

[Hot_Rodder]

Hmmm...... anyone?

[Big Sugar]

Hey.

If you're setting up for a tight street ride, Weld in those Sub frame connectors, Weld Gussets or install hemi boxes too the frame (Gusseting is a little easier up front) , At the rear a good set of shocks and a rear swaybar will make the ride a lot more enjoyable. Heavy or SS rear leafs are good for the Strip but don't really work well in a road racer application, You need a little spring compliance. Calverts Monoleaf's with the Cal trac rods work very well in street form as well even though they were designed primarily for the strip.Loose the rear Shackles and go with Sliders from Mancini or Riellys.
up front your limited with your front K Member but welding in Lower control arm plates work well add a set of Tubular upper control arms new bushings thruought ,Good quality front Shocks ,A beefy front sway bar and  make sure your steering gear box and all the tie rods are nice and fresh and you should have a good handler.

Heres an important Tip. Dont weld anything Structually under your car without supporting your chassis in a level side to side position Do not use a hoist put your car on four ramps (use Car Jack) or 8" wood blocks then check to see the chassis is level from right side to left side at the front and rear around the suspension area, Adjust with Stands, once level check your doors  to see if everything still lines up nice , Then grind areas clean and weld in those connectors. If your Framework has rusted over the years nows a good chance to look over all your old weld joints and clean them up with a few nice beads. Gusset  with a bit of square tubing or heavy flat plate in the front and rear crossmember corners too tighten things up nicely.

Your on the right track 650+ ft/lbs of torque can twist a 37 year old unibody badly,


Ron.

I've got a great read here somewhere I'll post it up when I find it.
Here it is.
    http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/leaf.shtml

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/lespsl.html
http://www.calvertracing.com/index.htm

[Hot_Rodder]

BigSugar, thanks for taking the time to type that up, sure it took a good minute or two, lol. I've already been contacted from a member here that has a set (front and rear I'm assuming) of torque boxes. If they are the right ones, in this case from A.R.T., then I will plan on getting them. As for the sub frame, I can't say that I've seen a weld in sub frame connectors, just the bolt in ones. I wish they had the tubular ones for the '72 but are only listed to '71, shouldn't be a difference between the '71 & '72 to my knowledge, the '73 and up are a different story though. As for shocks, Calverts recommend using AFCO shocks if I remember right, would this be a good idea for the street or not? At one point I was considering the Edelbrock shocks, but am unsure about them, I've even gone as far as considering the Competition Engineering shocks. Either way.... Rear sway bar, being that my Charger is a mostly factory '72 SE, it has a factory rear sway bar on it, I think about the only thing that I can really do with it is clean it up, probably powder coat it, and get some urethane bushings for it. As for the Calverts products, looks like I'm gonna have to get up with them about the monoleafs, but for the Caltracks, I'm by far thinking you would be meaning these:
CalTracks:http://www.calvertracing.com/caltracs.html
Monoleafs: http://www.calvertracing.com/splitmonoleaf.html
Wonder what the ground clearance would be like..... Hate speed bumps. The sliders are self explanatory, lol. I'm assuming that the lower control arm plates that I posted a link to should do fine. Mancini lists two different upper control arms, the differences are:
I'm guessing factory style ends: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/ma1e.html
Then ones with Heim joints: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/ma1b1ewjo.html
Would my application benefit from the Heim joints, or would I be better off going with the more factory type ends? I've even considered: http://www.magnumforce.com/magnumforce_tubular_control_arms.htm which are pretty much the same as above, but they have a set of double adjustable sets, I think that I don't need those, and would probably be more of a pain than anything for street use...... As for Poly Urethane bushings, I don't know if I want to get a bushing kit, or get a front suspension rebuild kit that uses the urethane bushings..... Might be better off getting a front end rebuild kit with those bushings, but heck, I'm not quite sure..... Something else to think about... I'm not sure what size the factory sway bar is up front, but this '72 SE came with a 400-4bbl with 727 TF. So I know it's not a small sway bar, but it's not the biggest either, lol. So I'm thinking maybe something more like this: http://www.jegs.com/i/ADDCO/020/186/10002/-1# for the front.... And this: http://www.jegs.com/i/ADDCO/020/236/10002/-1 for the rear, but I think this is probably the same as what's already on there, I need to measure it to know for sure.... If I only knew where my sway bar measuring tape has gone off to.... Hmmm.... As for my steering gear box, I will either have it fully rebuilt, or get another, and send this one in as a core.... As far as I know, there's nothing wrong with it though, just old as the car, if not older..... For the bushings and such, I'm guessing maybe a little bit of this: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/man19bbodsup1.html and a little bit of this: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/en19bbod19eb.html will probably = a tight handling car from '72.....

I'm guessing this is one heck of a start..... Lot of work too, lol.

[Mike DC]

         
Whether or not the unibody gets twisted depends GREATLY on how hard you ever hook up that power.  15x8" rims and street radials put a hell of a lot less stress on the unibody than huge wide drag slicks.





I'd vote to stay away from heim joints in the suspension anywhere on a street car.  Poly is already stiff compared to stock rubber. 

I'm not saying heims can't technically work, I'm saying I don't think the tiny gain is worth the downsides in that situation.

[RallyeMike]

Hot Rod,

A few other things to maybe consider for your plan: Since you said it's mostly a street car and not a dragger, think about stepping up to at least a .96 torsion bar (.92 is stock). The larger front sway will make one of the biggest differences in the feel of the car, but the stock rear one really should suffice if you want to save a few bucks. If you move the springs inboard you will have to rethink how to mount a rear sway bar, so you may be in for a new piece anyway if you go that route.

One other improvement that has not been mentioned is strengthening the steering box mount on the K-frame. Once everything else is solidified, you will find that the steering box mounts will flex a little. Simply welding in a few gussets will make the steering that much tighter - one area that old Mopars really need help with. Coupled with your new steering box it will drive like an entirely different car when done.

Can't weigh in on the Calverts, Caltracks, etc. as I've never used the stuff.

I agree with Big Sugar - Don't settle for bolting in the sub frame connectors. Welding is the way to go. Depending on what you might already have - you could just weld them instead.

I'm kinda curious... whats the rest of the plan for your 72? Color, interior, etc...

[Hot_Rodder]

RalleyMike, As far as colors, I plan on going back with the factory triple black, but instead of doing a basic black exterior color, I am planning on running a black with Ice Pearl (House Of Kolor paint). Interior, I am going to restore all the interior, using the factory front buckets, floor console, and if the radio is good to go, I will reuse it, but have a hidden cd changer in the car. Heck, I am even going to reuse the factory rear window defogger assembly.

As far as what all I've gotten so far for parts for the chassis strengthening, I've sent a payment off for a set of torque boxes. Other than that, I've not gotten anything else as of yet. Trying to go as I can, but make sure that what I get is something that I can use and need, like the sub frame connectors instead of bolt in set I need to get a weld in set.

I've not forgotten about the torsion bars, I was planning on going with some that are slightly larger, but hadn't gotten around to asking about those yet since those will have to be handled after all the other things are taken care of, mostly welding side of things.

I can't remember where I saw heard about bracing the gear box mount, but I do recall mentioning about it. I still need to figure out how all I'm going to hold this motor in it's place since I don't plan on running a motor plate, lol. I know solid mounts are nice, but for the street.... Not the best of idea. So I'm thinking about running a locking motor mount with some kind of bushing that's better than rubber, and perhaps a torque strap or something.... This will also come later, but since I will be working around that area of mounting stuff, might want to think about that too so I don't put something in the way down the road.....

Rear sway bar wise, I will try and get two pic's of what is on it now, doesn't look like the ones that are available aftermarket now though.....
Pic 1: http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff60/hotrodderBB/11%2025%2007/rearsuspensiondriversideHRmodified.jpg
pic 2: http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff60/hotrodderBB/11%2025%2007/rearsuspensionpassengersideHRmodifi.jpg

I would post the pic's right here, but I've not resized them, might here in a little bit, just have not done it as of yet.... To my knowledge, this is the factory rear suspension set up for the most part.

Also, these pic's were taken when I first got the car here to the house.

[Hot_Rodder]

Found these, looks like I would have to get some other stuff too.....
http://www.competitionengineering.com/catalog/CategoryDisplay.asp?CatCode=10054

Also:
http://www.p-s-t.com/pc-1975-159-dodge-charger-1966-76.aspx
http://www.p-s-t.com/pc-3972-175-dodge-charger-coronet-1965-07.aspx
http://www.p-s-t.com/pc-2019-177-dodge-charger-1966-78.aspx

As for shocks, I'm still at a bit of a stand still on that.....

[Charger74]

Hot_Rodder,

As for holding the motor in place, Schumachers has motor mounts called poly loc's.  Really neat idea.  Also you could run a bolt through the plates and motor mount the create the same thing.   I would also recommend a torque strap, that would also help keep the motor still.

http://www.engine-swaps.com/

This site has them both.

[Hot_Rodder]

Yeah, I remember reading somewhere where a member had taken a new factory mount, drilled a couple holes, and put in high grade bolts with nuts in place and made their own locking mounts.... Wish I could remember what site though, might be this one.... Need to do a search I guess. I am familir with the Schumacher products though, and there torque strap has crossed my mind a time or two, lol.

[Rolling_Thunder]

it was a member here...     

schumacher torque strap...       I've broken two of them...   with a small  block...      i would just go with a poly lock style mount and be done with it

[Charger74]

I believe it was firefighter (Ron) who I think intially mentioned it, but not certain.

[Hot_Rodder]

I know there was mention of Mity mount on a thread that I had found.... But as for the instruction of how to make your own locking mount out of a factory style mount, same as what is offered by the aftermarket. Anyway, I'm quite busy, so when I get the chance, I'll type more later, lol.