WHAT TIPS CAN YOU OFFER TO SOMEONE CONSIDERING THE PURCHASE OF A 69 CHARGER ?

[model maker]

 When I was 17 years old, I bought my second car which was a 1968 Dodge Charger and a couple of years after that, I was fortunate enough to aquire a 1969 dodge Charger. this was in 1974 & 1977. both are long gone now and back then were so EASY & affordable I thought they would be around forever. I am now 53 and want another 69 Charger so bad i can taste it !!!! back in the 70's, you didn't have to worry OR even look for the things you do these days when buying a Dodge Charger, since these cars were still new in a way.  fast forward 40 years  & Today is much different and everything has to be looked at closely . what tips can you Dodge Charger owners give me in regards to buying a 1969 Dodge Charger. I plan on getting one some day , not sure when BUT someway, somehow i want to acheive this goal.  when looking and buying a 40 year old car, what lessons did all of you learn OR wished you knew about when you purchased yours ?  what kinds of things, Hidden things do you look for such as rust and rot  for example ? How can you be sure that what the seller tells you is the truth and what kinds of things can be completly hidden and what tricks are common and not so common. What I am looking for when I get ready is a car that can be used daily if i choose to. I want something nice, dependable rust/rot free. I don't care if #s match I want a car that looks great and something i won't be afraid to take out, it doesn't have to be a car show trophy winner just something that is physically, mechanically in good shape, what kinds of modern technology can be put into these cars to make them better than what the factory turned out ? and what parts such as seats, front grilles ( especially the 69 charger) are available today ? in a nutshell, WHAT MUST I WATCHOUT FOR ?
Thanks for your help.
Bert

[69bronzeT5]

Commonly rusted areas include the quarters, trunk and trunk extensions, torsion bar crossmember, floor pans, deck filler panel, rear and front window channels, rear frame rails and rear crossmember.

Expensive parts include the grille, door panels, gauge cluster, woodgrain steering wheel...heck, about every part is expensive.

When it comes to repro parts, stay away from Premier Plastics. They make grilles and taillight lenses but they have screwed over a lot of people. Definitely stay away from HLPAG and their bondoed up Chargers. Obviously stay away from BK Auto too. I've also heard bad things about Texas Toy Box. Don't buy a car off Ebay unless you have seen and inspected it in person.

Check out Auto Metal Direct's website for a list of repro sheetmetal they're making. Also browse around The Paddock's and Yearone's sites.

Regarding modern technology, check out XV Motorsports for sure. Also, do a search on this board for cars like that. Autodynamics (Pete) has a beautiful pro-touring '69 Charger. NYCMILLE (Mike) has a '68 Charger and '69 Daytona Charger pro-tourers.

[68charger383]

I would strongly recommend that you stay far away from the 69s and buy a 68!   



Might help if you try and focus your search on places "less" likely to have major rust problems: CA, AZ, NM, NV then lets say NY, NJ, CT.

[dpm68]

I couldn't possibly offer better advice that Cody, and as I have owned a few of these (68s only though) I agree with what he says.

[gasoline_24]

Very good advise there.  Can't get better than a 68.

[jb666]

Commonly rusted areas include the quarters, trunk and trunk extensions, torsion bar crossmember, floor pans, deck filler panel, rear and front window channels, rear frame rails and rear crossmember.

Expensive parts include the grille, door panels, gauge cluster, woodgrain steering wheel...heck, about every part is expensive.

When it comes to repro parts, stay away from Premier Plastics. They make grilles and taillight lenses but they have screwed over a lot of people. Definitely stay away from HLPAG and their bondoed up Chargers. Obviously stay away from BK Auto too. I've also heard bad things about Texas Toy Box. Don't buy a car off Ebay unless you have seen and inspected it in person.

Check out Auto Metal Direct's website for a list of repro sheetmetal they're making. Also browse around The Paddock's and Yearone's sites.

Regarding modern technology, check out XV Motorsports for sure. Also, do a search on this board for cars like that. Autodynamics (Pete) has a beautiful pro-touring '69 Charger. NYCMILLE (Mike) has a '68 Charger and '69 Daytona Charger pro-tourers.

I couldn't agree more. BK & HLPAG=WARNING, KEEP AWAY!

[Dans 68]

Well, with all the credit to Carl ("OldGuy") here are some things to watch for when scouting that 2nd gen (4-speed) Charger. He was kind enough to help me with this missive when I was buying my '68. Good, common sense knowledge. 

History of Vehicle
Get as much history and paper work on the car that you can from the guy.
Where did he get it (geographical location)/who did he buy it from?
Any known previous owners?
What has he done with it since he got it?
Where and how was it stored?
Has it ever been wrecked?
What work has he done on it?
Pictures when he got it.
Any pictures prior to or during restoration.
Did anyone else do work on it?
If so, check with them to see what they did and what condition the car was in.  Get any documents, receipts, invoices of his expenses.
How much did he pay for it?

Throughout the entire process of looking over the car – always be looking for signs of the number one problem with cars this age – RUST!

Body & Paint

Walk completely around the car and look at/for the following things:

Hood
Does the hood line up and lay level with the fenders, front cowl and grill.
Lift the hood to see if it comes up evenly and doesn't bind on the hinges.  Lower the hood and see if it comes back down in alignment.

Trunk
Does the trunk lid line up and lay flat with the rear quarters, rear deck and tail panel?  Open and close the trunk to see if it latches properly.
Pull back the trunk liner to check the condition of the trunk floor pan.  Are the drip holes plugged, are the seams all properly welded.  Look closely where the rear wheel wells meet the trunk floor.  This is a notorious place for rust and metal decay.
If you feel inclined, from the inside of the trunk look upward to the bottom of the rear window.  Any rust or decay is an indication that the window well is bad or the window seal is leaking.  That will also show up if there is any indication that water is dripping down onto the tops of the rear wheel wells inside the trunk.
Check both the front and rear valances for dents, etc.

The front grill/clip is primarily made of plastic.  Check closely for cracks or missing chunks that could have been broken off.

Open each door to see if it swings straight out and closes easily.  If it sags when opened and doesn't close easily, the door hinges are bad.  The doors should close easily – there is no need to slam them.

Stand back on each side of the car so you can see the entire car from front to rear.  Look for the body line that runs from the front to the rear.  It starts at the front side marker on the fender and runs in a straight line along the fender across the door and along the rear quarter to the back side marker. Then go to the rear of the car and look down the body line at eye level to see if the rear quarter panel, door and front fender are aligned.  If the line isn't distinct or straight, it is an indication that there has been body work on the fender, door or rear quarter.

Check all chrome i.e. window trim, door handles, bumpers, gas cap, drip rails, grill trim, tail panel trim, wheel well trim, etc. for pits, dimples, bends or dings.

Check the vinyl top to see if the overlap lines are straight and symmetrical.
Look for bubbles or tears in the top.
Feel around the top for the roof weld seams to see if they are flat.  The rear seams run diagonally down from just below the top of the back window to just above the bottom of the rear side windows.  The front seams are just below the top on the front door posts.  If they bulge or are indented, there could be problems under the vinyl top.

Paint
Not only can paint hide a lot of things; it can also tell you a lot about the condition of the underlying metal.
Check for overspray, especially inside the engine bay, trunk and undercarriage.  That will be an indication of how professional the paint job is; although, there was a lot of overspray and missed spots in those locations on original paint jobs from the factory.
Look for drips, runs, cracks, chips, scratches, dings and orange peel.  Dark spots in the paint are an indication that water dripped on the paint when it was sprayed.
Examine all seams closely for scaling, bubbles or peeling of the paint – this is an indication of underlying rust.  Critical areas would be around the sail panels, along the bottom of the back window, around the wheel wells, bottoms of the fenders and quarter panels, along the bottom of the rocker panels, etc.


Interior
Check the top dash pad for cracks and tears.
Check to see if the doors lock from both inside and using the key from the outside.
Crank the windows up and down to see if they slide smoothly.  All windows, especially the rear side windows should go down below the window trim.
Open and close the front wing windows.  They should move easily and close tightly against the rubber.
If there is a remote lever for driver's side rear view mirror, move it around to see if the mirror moves.
Slide both bucket seats back and forth to make sure they glide smoothly.
Lift both bucket seat backs to make sure they fall forward evenly.
The head rest should move up and down.
The front seat belt portion on the door side of the seats should pull up to about the middle of your waist and retract (they are the only belts that retract).  The portion on the console side does not retract but comes across and adjusts to fit.  The back seat belts lay flat on the seat.  Fasten the belts to see if they clasp and unlock.
Check the head liner to make sure it is tight all around.
The sun visors should swivel back and forth and up and down.
A critical place to check is the bottom of the rear window around the package tray for water leaks and rust on the inside window trim.
The console tray door should lift up easily and lock in the closed position.
The door panels look pretty good in the photos.
Turn the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any play in it.  If there is a lot of play, there could be a problem in the steering box.


Undercarriage
Go dressed to get down, underneath and dirty.
Jack the car up and examine the undercarriage.
Use a small hammer, if the owner will let you, to tap around to check for rust (just tap – you don't need to hammer on things)
Tap the frame rails to make sure they are solid.
You probably won't be able to lift the carpet from the inside to check the floor pans but you can check them from underneath.  Tap them.
Tap the exhaust system from front to rear, including the mufflers.  You can also wear a pair of gloves and run your hand along the length of them.  Examine the mufflers for rust around the seams (indication that they are leaking).  Pay particular attention to the pipes from the mufflers back.  They go up over the top of the real axle (if stock) and can rust out on top.  Make sure the tail pipe tips are welded on.
Make sure the rear springs are tight and properly attached.
Check the shocks, front and back for leaks.  Rock the car front and back to see if the shocks stabilize within one bounce.
Make sure all drive train bolts are present and accounted for.
Try to see if the motor mounts are solid and the rubber is in good shape.
Look for leaks and dents around the gas tank.

To be continued...


Dan

[Dans 68]

...continued

Front End
While you have the front end jacked up, grasp the tire front and back and move it side to side to see if there is any play in it.  If there is movement, could be a sign of wear in the steering linkage or front bearings.
Check the ball joints for wear.  There should have signs of grease around the grease fittings and joints indicating proper lubrication.
The sway bar should be tight – looks like the guy replaced it.
Make sure the torsion bars are tight in the frame in the back and tight up front in the lower control arm.
Check the front tires to see how they are wearing.  Could reveal a need for an alignment or replace shocks.
Check the steering linkage to make sure it is tight.  Look for wear on the tie rods.
If possible, pull off a front tire to check the brake pad wear and rotors.
Look for signs of oil and coolant leaks underneath.
When driving – take hands off the steering wheel and see if it goes straight down the road.  Drifting to one side or the other is an indication of a need for a front end alignment.

Engine Bay
Look for signs of oil and/or coolant leaks.
The hood has a pad on the underside.  Look for stains on it.
 
Drive line – rear-end, engine, transmission

Rear-end
There should be a tag bolted on the side of the rear end with the gear ratio noted.
Check for oil leaks around the pumpkin.
The 383 probably has either the 8 -1/4 10 bolt or 9-1/4 12 bolt rear end.  The Dana 60's were pretty much exclusive to the R/T's with 440 or 426 Hemi engines.
Check around the inside of the rear rims for leaks coming from the axle – sign of bad seals.
Jack rear end up and rotate tires back and forth to detect any play in the rear end.
While driving, listen for grinding, whining, clanking, etc. – indications of bad bearings or worn gears in differential.

Engine
Now is the time to start the engine.  Start it when it is cold.  Feel the valve covers, exhaust manifolds, radiator or heads/block to make sure it is cold.
Listen to how it sounds when it starts.
Does the carburetor kick down when it is warmed up?
Does it idle smoothly – depending upon cam?
Listen for tappet/lifter noises
Listen for exhaust leaks around the exhaust manifolds.
Have someone check the exhaust when first started.  Blue smoke – oil burn; black smoke – mixture too rich


Transmission (manual)

The transmission should be an A-833, small drive pinion with 23 splines.
While driving, listen for whining, clanking or grinding in the transmission.
Shift into reverse and drive backwards for a short distance.
Shift through all gears from 1st to 4th moving forward.  Then slow down and down-shift through all gears from 4th to 1st.  The transmission is more likely to come out of gear while downshifting.

Electrical and vacuum

With engine running, now check the electrical system.
Lights
Check to see if all light are working:
Dash and gauge lights – roll dimmer switch up and down on dash
Console lights on each side of console
Overhead light
Turn signals
Check to see if the hood mounted signal lights are working . Parking lights in front valance
Side marker lights both front and rear on both sides
Tail lights
Brake lights
Put in car in reverse and see if reverse lights work – clear plastic light cover above and between the two tail lights on each side.
Turn on the headlights and see if the vacuum system is working to open and close the covers.
With covers open, check low and high beams.  There are two headlights on each side – low beam is one and both are on for high beams.

The headlight cover doors in the grill are the best indicators to see if the vacuum system is working.  If they don't come up or close properly there is a problem.  They both should open and shut simultaneously.  Could be a leaky hose or the canister is not holding pressure.  The vacuum canister is located under the battery tray.

Turn on windshield wipers to see if they work.  Also, check to see if the windshield washers work.

Check to see if the radio works.
All speakers should work.  Turn up volume to check for broken speaker diaphragms - rattles and/or vibration.

Check to see if the heater works.  If the heater squeals, there could be a problem with the fan.


Dan

[1969chargerrtse]

  Wow, what nice people on the site.  That was darn nice of you to list all that Dan.  I read the post and thought, I don't have enough years in my life to explain this question.   Except for the misleading advise about stay away from a 69 and buy a 68, the guys got some great advise. 

[PocketThunder]

Bert, i would seriously give this one a look, if you've got $40,000 to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1969-Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-4-Speed-440-Magnum-Dana-60_W0QQitemZ170292022901QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item170292022901&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[Dans 68]

Bert, i would seriously give this one a look, if you've got $40,000 to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1969-Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-4-Speed-440-Magnum-Dana-60_W0QQitemZ170292022901QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item170292022901&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I agree, it is a nice car for a '69. 

Dan

[moparstuart]

Bert, i would seriously give this one a look, if you've got $40,000 to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1969-Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-4-Speed-440-Magnum-Dana-60_W0QQitemZ170292022901QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item170292022901&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I agree, it is a nice car for a '69. 

Dan

yeah buy a 68 instead  

[69*F5*SE]

By 1969 they worked out all the kinks the 68 model had         or one would assume   

[PocketThunder]

Bert, i would seriously give this one a look, if you've got $40,000 to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1969-Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-4-Speed-440-Magnum-Dana-60_W0QQitemZ170292022901QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item170292022901&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I agree, it is a nice car for a '69. 

Dan

yeah buy a 68 instead  

Oh you guys like us and you know it..     

[Dans 68]

Bert, i would seriously give this one a look, if you've got $40,000 to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1969-Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-4-Speed-440-Magnum-Dana-60_W0QQitemZ170292022901QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item170292022901&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I agree, it is a nice car for a '69. 

Dan

yeah buy a 68 instead  

Oh you guys like us and you know it..     

Well, yeah, we do but you didn't have to tell everyone. 

Dan

[tan top]

Bert, i would seriously give this one a look, if you've got $40,000 to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1969-Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-4-Speed-440-Magnum-Dana-60_W0QQitemZ170292022901QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item170292022901&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

yeah    looks good 
anyone looking into buying a Charger .... my advice  join www.dodgecharger.com  Awesome bunch of guys   

[Big Sugar]

Bert, i would seriously give this one a look, if you've got $40,000 to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1969-Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-4-Speed-440-Magnum-Dana-60_W0QQitemZ170292022901QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item170292022901&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

yeah    looks good 
anyone looking into buying a Charger .... my advice  join www.dodgecharger.com  Awesome bunch of guys   

Your off too a great start coming here first, First off dig deep down and decide what you really are looking for in a 2nd cen Charger, try to narrow down your field, Engine, performance upgrades ,numbers matching, Serntimental things, Then Start a heavy search, With the internet it's easy to spend ann hour a day literally scouring the continent for exactly what your looking for.
Remember shop with your head and not with your heart don't fall for the first Charger you see, take your time and educate yourself on the markeplace. Tell all your freinds what your looking for you'd be surprised what you can  find a block away from your house.! All of a sudden one will fall on your lap.
Keep an eye out for Auctions !! Right now it's a buyers market and it's going to get even better , Right place at the right time is so important. as soon as you can get your finances in order do it !, you don't want to pass up a good deal not having cash at the ready.
Give youself a hard $$ to stick with and happy hunting.


Good Luck
68's are my favorite but I like 70/71's too, although I'm partial too the 1st gen Chargers !!

Ron

[69charger2002]

i have an extremely nice driver 69 i am considering selling if you're really looking for one. it's my white 69. original 318 car. 383 in it. i'd drive it to california tomorrow without thinking twice. cold a/c too.
shoot me a pm if interested. this is not a for sale ad.

[dkn1997]

Buy a 69.  68 is a bad year of charger...


..then there's more 68's left for us!

[model maker]

THANKS everyone ! Thank you Dans 68  for that very detailed list, That will be very, very helpful to keep handy especially when face to "grille" with a Charger That list is going to get printed up and I will stick to it when i get ready to get my car. there is a 69 R/T SE near me on consignment in an inside showroom, 440 Magnum Tri-power. It is yellow with black Vinyl top, black R/T stripe around the back, auto trans, power windows etc. However, the interior color is saddle tan, with tan carpet , dash  and although the seat pattern is correct, I can feel the holes for the headrests in the seats but the upholstery covers these holes up. the doors close SOLID and the paperwork on the car CLAIMS to have had it stored for 20 PLUS years but who knows. I look very close at body panel gaps and all is good EXCEPT the front grille spaces from left to right and the right ( passenger side ) top of the grille has about a 2 inch wider gap than does the drivers side. The battery was disconnected and i had to leave so I didn't get to start it. I have visited this charger about 5 times in 3 months and the owner of the car dealer says the guy is asking around $50, GRAND. It will be awhile before i can afford a charger but the waiting time will be valuable in researching what i want. I just paid off my 03 GMC sierra 4 X 4 and she still looks new inside & out and I keep it very well maintained and serviced by my GM dealer. It is my "muscle truck"with RAM AIR Hood and lots of extras  Thanks again for all of the help and advice everyone, I appreciate it BIG TIME and I value the advice from each & everyone of you !!!!
Bert

[Arizona Dave]

If you buy a 68, you'll always wish you'd bought a 69 because they are so much cooler & sexier. 
All 68 Chargers want to be 69's when they grow up.

Though, I wouldn't push a 68 out of bed!!

[tan top]

THANKS everyone ! Thank you Dans 68  for that very detailed list, That will be very, very helpful to keep handy especially when face to "grille" with a Charger That list is going to get printed up and I will stick to it when i get ready to get my car. there is a 69 R/T SE near me on consignment in an inside showroom, 440 Magnum Tri-power. It is yellow with black Vinyl top, black R/T stripe around the back, auto trans, power windows etc. However, the interior color is saddle tan, with tan carpet , dash  and although the seat pattern is correct, I can feel the holes for the headrests in the seats but the upholstery covers these holes up. the doors close SOLID and the paperwork on the car CLAIMS to have had it stored for 20 PLUS years but who knows. I look very close at body panel gaps and all is good EXCEPT the front grille spaces from left to right and the right ( passenger side ) top of the grille has about a 2 inch wider gap than does the drivers side. The battery was disconnected and i had to leave so I didn't get to start it. I have visited this charger about 5 times in 3 months and the owner of the car dealer says the guy is asking around $50, GRAND. It will be awhile before i can afford a charger but the waiting time will be valuable in researching what i want. I just paid off my 03 GMC sierra 4 X 4 and she still looks new inside & out and I keep it very well maintained and serviced by my GM dealer. It is my "muscle truck"with RAM AIR Hood and lots of extras  Thanks again for all of the help and advice everyone, I appreciate it BIG TIME and I value the advice from each & everyone of you !!!!
Bert

that sounds a intresting  Charger  ..No head rests  , could be a early car , built 68 ,  headrests were stardard after january 1st 69 ..hmmm yellow , black top , tan interior ..would love to see a picture of the fender ...or car tag    ....   , wonder if it the original color combo   

[model maker]

I too am wondering why the different color combo, seems like a black interior would match better, however, the dash is the same tan. i can feel the headrest holes under the top of the seats, anyway, here is a link to the charger i am speaking of.
Bert
http://vehiclepro.net/supersportmotors/parksell/ACCT_list_dealer_inventory_stock_parksell.php?display=editEntryForm&status=active&id=1219857680.73&from=dealer_inventory&beginningEntry=1

[model maker]

Take a look at the dash in front of the steering wheel. When I sat in the drivers seat, the gauges seemed to lean or canter to the left so that someone looking over your left shoulder would get a straight on view of them. It has been over 30 years since i sat in my Charger and can't seem to remember if the speedo etc faced straight at the driver or cantered toward the left a little. How does this cahrgers dash lookto you guys ?
Bert
http://vehiclepro.net/supersportmotors/parksell/ACCT_list_dealer_inventory_stock_parksell.php?display=editEntryForm&status=active&id=1219857680.73&from=dealer_inventory&beginningEntry=1

[tan top]

hmmm not the original color ... seen this before on the net , looks nice  .... if they are the original outer door handles , they have black buttons ..., explaines no head rests ... SPD ( scheduled production date ) of  late 68 . 
yeah , black interior , who know what they were thinking ,  mine had  a tan vinyl with black interior      ..  did you see the fender tag ?
dash looks ok ... but has it been put together ok ..as i see  screw missing  &  centre pad coming loose ..no biggie , but i would be wondering 
has a rare 3 speaker dash also