Hard start & fuel boiling > Some interesting carb insulating data

[Troy]

For example... as far as I can tell, my Six Pack was boiling the fuel in the carbs and/or line. The paint on the intake was brown and flaking in the middle on the passenger side (where that heat port is). On a Six Pack the coil is mounted in almost that exact spot so I figured I may have had a fuel AND ignition problem. I have an infrared temp gauge so I shot a few areas when the car was warm and running in my garage. I don't have the exact numbers with me but the gauge only reads up to 230 degrees and it was going off the scale in most areas from the middle to the back on the passenger side. The driver's side was warm - but not nearly as hot. I had the car apart a few weeks ago so I took the opportunity to install a 1215 valley pan. I used copper on the sides and gray/silver RTV on the ends and corners. I warmed the car up and shot it with the gauge. It didn't have any readings off the scale on any part of the intake. Temperatures in the area of the heat port were near 175 degrees and the front was below 160 degrees. I didn't pay too much attention to the back because I had the air cleaner off and I know it will hold the heat in and my numbers would be skewed. I'll need to dig up my original numbers and map them against the new data in the exact same location but, at first glance, blocking that port should make my car a lot happier! The choke still works too...

Troy

[AmadeusCharger500]

Great topic and new reason to buy a cool tool.

Anyone ever notice how your car don't run as good when its really hot out? I think this relates to this very issue. The more cool air we can get into these carbs the better. (Once up to operating temp that is)

I'm working on a way to vent air to the cleaner from the front of the car. Anyone have designs for this type of mod?

[Ghoste]

I've seen kits for that type of thing similar to what they used on the 442 Olds or Ford Thunderbolts.

[drifter69]

So I have also been boiling off fuel in my quick fuel 850, I can watch it in the site glass on the side. Problem is...... I am running a RPM manifold and a drop base K&N filer and there is not enough room for a spacer to cool things off. Any ideas?.........or I am looking for a hood with a sixpack scoop. I did not want to do that and do not want to use a flater manifold. Anybody get around this yet without changing out your hood.

[jlatessa]

On the same vein, our six-pack will have minimal hood clearance as-is, I'm wondering 
what is the BEST insulator if we have to use a thin one under the carbs.

I've already used the blocked-off valley pan and am going to purchase
a temp. sensor gun.  Car hasn't been fired yet.

As an aside, I need to borrow/buy non-highperf exhaust manifolds to break-in our cam
and save the finish on our headers.
This for a 440 Charger, Cleveland, Ohio area.

Thanks, Joe

[flyinlow]

I'm working on a way to vent air to the cleaner from the front of the car. Anyone have designs for this type of mod?

Like the 442,except I went thru the radiator support . Easier on 3rd gens I think and my battery is trunk mounted. Two 4 inch intake tubes and the filter box holds a 14X4 K&N filter.

[flyinlow]

As an aside, I need to borrow/buy non-highperf exhaust manifolds to break-in our cam
and save the finish on our headers.
This for a 440 Charger, Cleveland, Ohio area.

Thanks, Joe

If you cant find some in Cleveland , I have a set of log style manifolds. Near Columbus. P.M. me .

[richRTSE]

So I have also been boiling off fuel in my quick fuel 850, I can watch it in the site glass on the side. Problem is...... I am running a RPM manifold and a drop base K&N filer and there is not enough room for a spacer to cool things off. Any ideas?.........or I am looking for a hood with a sixpack scoop. I did not want to do that and do not want to use a flater manifold. Anybody get around this yet without changing out your hood.

maybe Ron can answer this himself, but I thought he said he added some spacers between the k-member and the frame rails to get a little more hood clearance on his 68...

[oldschool]

So I have also been boiling off fuel in my quick fuel 850, I can watch it in the site glass on the side. Problem is...... I am running a RPM manifold and a drop base K&N filer and there is not enough room for a spacer to cool things off. Any ideas?.........or I am looking for a hood with a sixpack scoop. I did not want to do that and do not want to use a flater manifold. Anybody get around this yet without changing out your hood.

i mill down the carb flange, 1/2". then i use a 1/2" birchwood spacer from AED.

[Steve P.]

Milling the manifold is a good option if your manifold has deep enough bosses to drill and thread deep enough for carb studs. I like this option.

I know more than a few people using 1" spacers between the frame and "K" member without issues. Some for many years now with no issues. I have to admit that I thought it could be a problem for the torsion bars, but I have never heard of anyone breaking one due to lowering the "K". 

[RIDELIKEHELL]

I'm running an Edelbrock performer RPM intake and an 850 Edelbrock carb and I think I'm boiling my fuel as well. I too have the problem of clearance if I install a spacer but my car runs fine for 15-20 mins then wants to stall?

[Big Sugar]

Good start Marc

[firefighter3931]

I'm running an Edelbrock performer RPM intake and an 850 Edelbrock carb and I think I'm boiling my fuel as well. I too have the problem of clearance if I install a spacer but my car runs fine for 15-20 mins then wants to stall?

Install a carb base insulating gasket and i bet your issues will disappear  

Make sure your fuel lines are not coming into contact with any hot surfaces such as the block and/or heater hoses.  


Ron

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Thank you Ron !

[RIDELIKEHELL]

so this....

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9265/overview/

[Dino]

The thicker the better but I guess you can't go much more with the setup you have.  Do you have the heat crossover blocked?  That solved my hot starting issues and I don't have a spacer on my carb, just a gasket.

[RIDELIKEHELL]

May sound stupid but I'm not sure Dino...waiting to hear from Shawn as I had bigger fish to fry during the resto 

[Dino]

May sound stupid but I'm not sure Dino...waiting to hear from Shawn as I had bigger fish to fry during the resto  

Heck yeah!  There's so much going on with a resto you can't be sure of everything.  I know that feeling!

If the crossover is not blocked, you'll need the Felpro 1215 kit and a tube of permatex ultra copper.

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Not sure but looks to me like the heads don't have a heat crossover port?

[firefighter3931]

Marc, the aluminum RPM heads do not have a heat crossover so you can use the std (or) 1215 intake gasket....doesn't make a difference one way or the other  

That base gasket you linked to above will work fine.  

The issue is with "conductive" heat....heat that is transferred from the heads to the manifold directly. The insulating gasket will prevent this form of heat transfer from occuring (from heads/manifold to carb) allthough radiant heat will still be present.

My original testing with the Infrared gun showed significant reductions in carb temps by simply insulating the carb. The ethanol fuel used these days is prone to boiling and is really designed for fuel injection systems that operate under high pressure....in many cases 45psi or more.  

It might be worth considering trying some Shell 91 octane V-power fuel which does not have any ethanol added. If it doesn't ping you're good to go.

Let us know how it turns out


Ron

[Dino]

Marc, the aluminum RPM heads do not have a heat crossover so you can use the std (or) 1215 intake gasket....doesn't make a difference one way or the other  

That base gasket you linked to above will work fine.  

The issue is with "conductive" heat....heat that is transferred from the heads to the manifold directly. The insulating gasket will prevent this form of heat transfer from occuring (from heads/manifold to carb) allthough radiant heat will still be present.

My original testing with the Infrared gun showed significant reductions in carb temps by simply insulating the carb. The ethanol fuel used these days is prone to boiling and is really designed for fuel injection systems that operate under high pressure....in many cases 45psi or more.  

It might be worth considering trying some Shell 91 octane V-power fuel which does not have any ethanol added. If it doesn't ping you're good to go.

Let us know how it turns out


Ron

Shell 91 octane V-power fuel?  I wonder if I can get that in Michigan...

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Funny enough I am running Sunoco Ultra 94(Petro Canada) but I work at Shell Refinery here in Sarnia   I actually test the finished product...I am going to try that gasket and go from there...thx so much Ron   Hence  my vanity plates    

[firefighter3931]

Well seeing as you work for Shell....maybe you can convince management to use your ride as a test bed for their V-power fuel    I figure 500 Gallons should be sufficient 

Cool vanity plate....seems appropriate for the car and your occupation. 


Ron

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Well seeing as you work for Shell....maybe you can convince management to use your ride as a test bed for their V-power fuel    I figure 500 Gallons should be sufficient 

Cool vanity plate....seems appropriate for the car and your occupation. 


Ron

Since Royal dutch took over Shell Canada we get "F" all free....They used to throw us a Gas Voucher once and a while but they must figure we make enough $ already

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Should I go with the divided type like this or the open one....Shawn seems to think the open one could cause swirling???