Denver legalizes marijuana possession...........>>>>

[RD]

did some research on ganja:

1) CANNABIS (pot, dope, blow, grass, marijuana, ganga, weed, skunk, hash, draw, puff)

Acute Effects:
Talkative, hilarity, well-being, self-confidence, appreciation of sound & colour
Poor concentration
Impaired driving
Anxiety, agitation, paranoia
Cannabis psychosis (high doses)
Dry mouth, red conjunctivae
Tachycardia, increased blood pressure, postural hypotension

Chronic effects:
Cannabis psychosis with long term heavy use
Amotivational syndrome
Reduced sperm count in men
Reduced fertility in women
Bronchitis & emphysema
? Lung cancer

In comparison to tobacco, cannabis is poorly combustible and burning results in production of abundant tars and hydrocarbons which are particularly toxic to the lungs. The particles in the smoke are deposited throughout the lungs and are subsequently taken up by the lung's scavenger cells (alveolar macrophages). This results in numerous microscopic pigment-laden macrophages being scattered and grouped throughout the lungs. Scarring results in chronic degenerative lung disease (emphysema). There is a higher incidence of cancer in comparison to tobacco smoking.

Withdrawal: Irritability, restlessness, decreased appetite, weight loss

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/llb/drugdeaths.htm


I see people posting about about comparing alcohol to marijuana.  Let's set the record straight, I DO NOT CONDONE ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, OR MARIJUANA AS MUCH AS I WOULD CONDONE COCAINE, METHAMPHETAMINES OR ANY OTHER ILLEGAL DRUG.

I am stating that marijuana is not good for you.  You guys know it.  Let's look at the facts.  It is compared to cigarette smoking in the fact that it has all the nasty carcinogens that cigarettes have in it, but it has MORE tar and tokers will hold hits a helluva lot longer than a cigarette smoker.  It KILLS brain cells just like cigarettes and alcohol.  It will kill you just like cigarettes will.

Why should it be legalized like cigarette smoking?  Especially now that we know what cigarettes do to people?  I mean come on, quit ranting about "my rights" and start looking at your own individual health?

I personally will try everything within my power to stay alive as long as possible to spend time with my family, why dont you all feel the same?  Is it because you value your rights towards a substance that you know is unhealthy and prone to cause emphysema and lung cancer just like cigarettes?  If that is the case, then you can just chalk it up to foolish pride in my book.

I am not condoning the cigarette and alcohol industries, but if those substances were made illegal, no politician that is in office would be re-elected.  You know its the truth.  Alcohol and tobacco companies employ millions of workers and contribute heavily to the economy of localities and states.  If tobacco and alcohol go, you will have a large unemployed populace that a politician could never make happy, state budgets that will lose BILLIONS in revenue from taxation, and a whole bunch of pissed off people who are addicted to both of them.  That is the truth.  Should they be illegal?  YES they should, but will they? NO, that is just being realistic.

Why create another legal industry out there that will ultimately cost the lives of millions of people?  Alcohol and tobacco are big enough problems for unwanted deaths and murders in this country, why add another factor into that arena?  Just because it is our right to? Well great, life is good then isn't it?

Sorry guys, there is not one thing you can say that will make me believe that marijuana is "okay" to use, not one thing.  Hell, when used medicinally it is still bad, that is why they developed the pill marinol.  Smoking a joint is not a efficient means of delivering the pain relieving drug, a pill can do it much better without all the side effects of smoking, and that IS FACT.  Even a person with a 2-digit IQ can see there's something wrong there.

[derailed]

 

[BigBlockSam]

But the first time someone hurts one of my family members (albeit from smoking pot, any other drug, alcohol, what have you), you better hope you die before I get to you.  

maybe   you should lite up and you wouldn't have such violent thoughts. it just all politics, legalize freedom! and pass the bong  

[bull]

Alchohol is addictive, kills brain cells, leads to violent behavior and is LEGAL.

Mary-jew-ahna kills brain cells, has never been proven to be addictive, does not lead to violent behavior (just the opposite) and is ILLEGAL.

Even a person with a 2-digit IQ can see there's something wrong there.

Ok. Let's ban booze and legalize pot. I'd go for that.

[Johnny SixPack]

It's never who you'd expect.

[69DodgeCharger]

Smoking a joint is not a efficient means of delivering the pain relieving drug, a pill can do it much better without all the side effects of smoking, and that IS FACT.   Even a person with a 2-digit IQ can see there's something wrong there.


Actually, if you had done your homework you would know that most medical marijuana users prefer to smoke the drug as opposed to the pharmacuetical equavilent Marinol. They can more easily control their dosage and only use what they need to control their pain and avoid the negative ond over intoxicating effects of Marinol. I can assure you as somebody who used the drug for recreational purposes for over 20 years (before I had to quit for my current job) and has also interacted with at least 1,000 marijuana users over the years 90% of your arguments against its legalization are pure bullshit, especially the so called "gateway theory. You know it. I know it. The general population knows it. The only gateway drugs are tobacco and alcohol. There is no argument in the world that can justify that grossly negligent expenditures of the Local, State, and Federal Governments to fight this "so called problem" Not to mention the trampling of free peoples civil rights, or the ungodly amount spent on incarceration of offenders. Here is the real truth behind keeping pot illegal. It is a huge "cash cow" for law enforcement. Plus it justifies ther "need" to keep thousands of extra law enforcement personell on the payroll. Billions of dollars are spent every year at all levels on enforcement and interdiction, all to no avail. My sources who are actually "in the field" so to speak tell me that weed is more plentiful and easier to obtain than ever. Plus prices have actually dropped in the last several years ....comparitive to the quality of product being produced. Obviously RD if you knew anything about what you are talking about you would realize you are dead wrong, but then again you have all the answers from your research....not to mention your "hands on experience" with the product. Here's some truth for you. People like you are why drugs are a problem. You can't prioritize what is harmful from what is not. You just use a "blanket" policy to rail against anything you don't agree with. I am guessing that theory applies to all areas of your life. Before you spout off with your "facts and opinions" about a subject perhaps you should actually know what you are talking about.

[derailed]

. Here is the real truth behind keeping pot illegal. It is a huge "cash cow" for law enforcement. Plus it justifies ther "need" to keep thousands of extra law enforcement personell on the payroll. Billions of dollars are spent every year at all levels on enforcement and interdiction, all to no avail.

[Mopar440+6]

 

In before the lock! Troy you know what to do...

[Johnny SixPack]

No, this isn't MoParts.

People here can discuss an issue like this without resulting to just cheap name calling and school yard bullying.

I don't see a reason to lock this up.

It'd be different if this had spiralled into a strictly political debate with old party lines being fought over.

RD's feelings (and other's with similar beliefs) are his, and I know I can respect that we have differing opinions.

In the immortal words of Gen. George S. Patton Jr., "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking".  

[RD]

Actually, if you had done your homework you would know that most medical marijuana users prefer to smoke the drug as opposed to the pharmacuetical equavilent Marinol.

Does not matter if they prefer it, I am stating that the marinol pill does not include the carcinogens and the tar and all the other forms of cancer and emphysema causing substances that are included with its intake.   So now you are not only smoking marijuana to kill the pain of your illness, but also to kill the pain of your newly found cancer and emphysema.   Drug doses as prescribed by doctors are constantly adjusted in accordance with the patient to best fit the patients needs. This is done with every drug prescribed by doctors.   Marinol prescriptions are no different.

They can more easily control their dosage and only use what they need to control their pain and avoid the negative ond over intoxicating effects of Marinol. I can assure you as somebody who used the drug for recreational purposes for over 20 years (before I had to quit for my current job) and has also interacted with at least 1,000 marijuana users over the years 90% of your arguments against its legalization are pure bullshit, especially the so called "gateway theory. You know it. I know it. The general population knows it. The only gateway drugs are tobacco and alcohol.

BS? I know it? How do you know that they are?   Do you have proof other than being a user?   If you read more than just my first two posts then maybe you can understand what the long term effects of the drug will be, not only on the individual but the entire population as a whole.   Their are economic ramifications, health ramifications, and livelihood ramifications.   If you choose not to recognize that, then I am sorry, but maybe you should reread all of these with a less emotional mindset than what you are in now.

There is no argument in the world that can justify that grossly negligent expenditures of the Local, State, and Federal Governments to fight this "so called problem" Not to mention the trampling of free peoples civil rights, or the ungodly amount spent on incarceration of offenders.

Tangent, a little off topic dont ya think?   You are looking at only a microcosm and not the great scheme of things.   There is so much more involved than just whether or not people want to get high.  

Here is the real truth behind keeping pot illegal. It is a huge "cash cow" for law enforcement. Plus it justifies ther "need" to keep thousands of extra law enforcement personell on the payroll. Billions of dollars are spent every year at all levels on enforcement and interdiction, all to no avail. My sources who are actually "in the field" so to speak tell me that weed is more plentiful and easier to obtain than ever. Plus prices have actually dropped in the last several years ....comparitive to the quality of product being produced.

refer to the above.   I do not care why its a huge cash cow or your truth as to why its illegal.   Bottom line, it is illegal.   Bottom line, it will kill you just like cigarettes will.   That is the truth.   If you do not like it, then I am sorry.   If you can't handle the truth then that is something that you will just have to come to terms with.

Obviously RD if you knew anything about what you are talking about you would realize you are dead wrong, but then again you have all the answers from your research....not to mention your "hands on experience" with the product.

Did I ever say I did it?   NO that is right I didnt, but yet you assume I have not.   Here is a newsflash for you, I have done it.   I know its short term effects quite vividly.   So do not try to make yourself sound like you a better than me because you are a drug user.   Fine be proud of that fact, I personally would not.

Here's some truth for you. People like you are why drugs are a problem. You can't prioritize what is harmful from what is not. You just use a "blanket" policy to rail against anything you don't agree with. I am guessing that theory applies to all areas of your life. Before you spout off with your "facts and opinions" about a subject perhaps you should actually know what you are talking about.

And you are a blanket of all knowing information?   A biased illegal drug user?   All your opinions stem from personal experience with a drug that alters your mindset, and you spout off about my research being invalid?   Opinions are like behinds, get it?   At least I am willing to back up my research with sources, facts and documented information, where is yours?   Do those sources lie at the end of a joint, smoldering and smoking of THC?

I do not want this to be a great grand pissing match, but you should really hold your accusations and vulgar language. I understand that you may take this personally and be somewhat emotional about it, but if you are unable to hold a civil debate in the usage and legality of marijuana, then I just wont respond to your posts anymore.   Try constructivism instead of negativism, it provides progress in a debate instead of destruction.

I will state this again.   Alcohol and cigarettes are bad.   Marijuana has similar effects to alcohol and has the same side effects of cigarettes.   If we all know how bad alcohol and cigarettes are, then why should WE, as voters, legalize another drug that will just cause more health problems, higher health insurance rates, more deaths, more anguish, more lost of love ones, then what we already have with alcohol and tobacco alone? WHY? Is it because of civil rights?   If that is the case then go to amsterdam and smoke all you want where it is legal.

[RD]

No, this isn't MoParts.

People here can discuss an issue like this without resulting to just cheap name calling and school yard bullying.

I don't see a reason to lock this up.

It'd be different if this had spiralled into a strictly political debate with old party lines being fought over.

RD's feelings (and other's with similar beliefs) are his, and I know I can respect that we have differing opinions.

In the immortal words of Gen. George S. Patton Jr., "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking".  

thanks formula, my sentiments apply to all others in this thread exactly.  appreciate the respect as I respect all others.

[last426]

Actually, if you had done your homework you would know that most medical marijuana users prefer to smoke the drug as opposed to the pharmacuetical equavilent Marinol.

Does not matter if they prefer it, I am stating that the marinol pill does not include the carcinogens and the tar and all the other forms of cancer and emphysema causing substances that are included with its intake.   So now you are not only smoking marijuana to kill the pain of your illness, but also to kill the pain of your newly found cancer and emphysema.   Drug doses as prescribed by doctors are constantly adjusted in accordance with the patient to best fit the patients needs. This is done with every drug prescribed by doctors.   Marinol prescriptions are no different.

[big snip]

I will state this again.   Alcohol and cigarettes are bad.   Marijuana has similar effects to alcohol and has the same side effects of cigarettes.   If we all know how bad alcohol and cigarettes are, then why should WE, as voters, legalize another drug that will just cause more health problems, higher health insurance rates, more deaths, more anguish, more lost of love ones, then what we already have with alcohol and tobacco alone? WHY? Is it because of civil rights?   If that is the case then go to amsterdam and smoke all you want where it is legal.

Here is why smoking is better than the pill form.  http://www.medmjscience.org/Pages/science/pierson.bhtml

Scientists have long knew it did not cause cancer. http://www.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_57309

Current scientific studies are finding why.  http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/tashkinlungcancer.html

In fact, it might be a cancer preventitive.  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051026/hl_nm/pot_cancer_dc

[Johnny SixPack]

Can we honestly say though that the current crop of marijuana users will substantially grow?

Maybe in the short-term, but I don't see there being a major upswing in habitual users.

There will naturally be those that care to experiment and dabble with it at parties or with friends.

But that's the same as the average Joe who stops at a bar for a beer on Friday nights after work.

Or someone who occassionally ties one on at a BBQ.

This talk of a vast plague being unleashed upon the American tax-payer in terms of health care/deaths due to accidents/overdoses (can't really overdose on it) is unfounded IMO.

People who are prone to destructive dietary/health/living/driving habits will continue to do so through whatever is their means/drug of choice.

And as Prohibition proved, making something illegal doesn't necessarily mean the habits of people will change, or that things will be "better".

If it doesn't work, repeal that shizzle, mah nizzle!

[John_Kunkel]

I am stating that marijuana is not good for you.   You guys know it.

The issue isn't whether or not it's good for you, the issue is the outlawing of a substance that, at it's worst, is no worse than many legal substances including a double cheesburger with bacon. The public, at large, seems to have shown their distain for "what's good for you" in favor of "what's good" and that should be their choice.

Why should it be legalized like cigarette smoking?   Especially now that we know what cigarettes do to people?   I mean come on, quit ranting about "my rights" and start looking at your own individual health?

The key word in that last sentence is "individual", what one does with or to their own body is nodody else's goddamn business.

I personally will try everything within my power to stay alive as long as possible to spend time with my family, why dont you all feel the same?

Because not everybody is like you (thankfully).

Why create another legal industry out there that will ultimately cost the lives of millions of people?   Alcohol and tobacco are big enough problems for unwanted deaths and murders in this country, why add another factor into that arena?   Just because it is our right to? Well great, life is good then isn't it?

Once again, it's not about condoning use or creating a legal industry to replace an illegal one, it's about the hypocrisy of outlawing one substance and allowing equally harmful ones.
Those who condone the concept of a "nanny government" have set their sights on outlawing everything but brown rice, vegetables, fruit and water.

[RD]

Fine, smoke up all you guys want.  I can not and will not waste any more words on such an adamant bunch of people who are willing to place poisons into their systems just because they think its their right to.  If it is a right, then it is legal, but it is not legal, hence you have no right to it.  Swallow that one and digest it.

And the comment about not everyone being like me "thankfully"  was done in a condescending sense and I do believe that you should actually strike that from your post based on the grounds that it is derogatory and does not promote good discussion.  I am sure I can think of many things to say to you negatively JK, but I, am willing to refrain from that, why aren't you?

For those who are so individualistic minded and think that nothing you do to yourself affects the whole, well, then you are all just oblivious to reality.

All I hear from some of you is "me, me, and me".  It is illegal to use barbituates or benzodiazepenes.  Both products that cause similar effects like alcohol.  Are you all proponents for them too?  How about methampetamines, cocaine, heroine and whippets?  Are you a proponent for that too?  Because according JK's analysis:

The key word in that last sentence is "individual", what one does with or to their own body is nodody else's goddamn business.

Everything should be legal then right?  But no, that can not happen, because some of that stuff is really bad!!!!  Hence we have to make it illegal, but then we are caught in a catch 22 because:

it's not about condoning use or creating a legal industry to replace an illegal one, it's about the hypocrisy of outlawing one substance and allowing equally harmful ones.
Those who condone the concept of a "nanny government" have set their sights on outlawing everything but brown rice, vegetables, fruit and water.

so what is it John?  It seems we cannot have our cake and eat it too.  I guess we must legalize every drug and let the "individuals" determine whether or not the drugs are harmful.  Wow, how astonishing!  What insight!  Geeez... I feel a whole lot better now that I have seen the light at the end of my joint.  Thank you, I can sleep tonight.

OUT

[BigBlockSam]

Fine, smoke up all you guys

ok, thank you

[derailed]

RD I can see where your coming from and theres a million different ways to look at this, but im almost starting to think that the crap half the people in this country eats everyday is doing alot more harm than an occasional joint here and there. I read somehwere back in the 30s the average adult women shoe size was about a 3, today its a 9. Its like were evolving into a whole new species. Lookt at the size of hospital beds and bus seats.You here more and more of men in there 30s having heart attacks. Are we going to outlaw McDonalds? Not likely.

[last426]

I guess we must legalize every drug and let the "individuals" determine whether or not the drugs are harmful.   Wow, how astonishing!   What insight!   Geeez... I feel a whole lot better now that I have seen the light at the end of my joint.   Thank you, I can sleep tonight.

Well, yes, what is wrong with that?  I feel that the unique perception of reality is totally within the control of a person.  So long as they have clear and true information about any risks, they are theirs to take.  How dare the government inject itself between me and my consciousness -- and many conservative thinkers are now coming around, after wasting billions of dollars and millions of lives chasing a ghost.  The government's rights, to me, begin only when an altered individual harms another person.  And then the rights are very limited. 

It's funny but when I ask someone who has views similar to the poster whether they would take drugs if they were legal tomorrow, invariably they say no.  That "no" strips the mask off of their argument.  It really boils down to an elitist argument that they are "good" enough to resist temptation and those other cretins, well, they should go to prison.

[bull]

I guess we must legalize every drug and let the "individuals" determine whether or not the drugs are harmful.   Wow, how astonishing!   What insight!   Geeez... I feel a whole lot better now that I have seen the light at the end of my joint.   Thank you, I can sleep tonight.

Well, yes, what is wrong with that?   I feel that the unique perception of reality is totally within the control of a person.   So long as they have clear and true information about any risks, they are theirs to take.   How dare the government inject itself between me and my consciousness -- and many conservative thinkers are now coming around, after wasting billions of dollars and millions of lives chasing a ghost.   The government's rights, to me, begin only when an altered individual harms another person.   And then the rights are very limited.  

So the liberal thinkers don't do such things? Get a grip. If a certain behavior of one group doesn't mesh with the agenda of a certain other group that group will always attempt to control the thoughts and actions of the opposing group. No matter if they are extrememly liberal or extremely conservative or anything in-between. For example, members of the tie-dye, barefoot, 'let it be' crowd are the first to promote and vote on any kind of environmental legislation that alters the activities of the conservative groups they don't agree with. And these old hippies are the ones who preach tolerance louder than anyone. Then they go tree-sitting at the top of a renewable resource so the guy on the ground with four mouths to feed can't earn a living.

It's funny but when I ask someone who has views similar to the poster whether they would take drugs if they were legal tomorrow, invariably they say no.   That "no" strips the mask off of their argument.   It really boils down to an elitist argument that they are "good" enough to resist temptation and those other cretins, well, they should go to prison.

What? Do you have to be stoned to understand that?

[Charger_Fan]

Out of curiosity, what is the going rate these days for a bag-o-weed? And how big is the bag, and how long does the bag last?

Just wondering how it compares to my beer consumption.

[PocketThunder]

Out of curiosity, what is the going rate these days for a bag-o-weed? And how big is the bag, and how long does the bag last?

Just wondering how it compares to my beer consumption.

Thats a good question..   I usually buy the 1.75L of Knob Creek for $45 and it lasts me for a month or more.  But after a night of sippin whisky all night long my head sure does hurt the next day.    or something like this

Does pot give you a hang over the next day?

[Johnny SixPack]

I think it's like any substance you indulge too much in.

But I don't believe there is a classic "hangover" from it per se.

Physically it could feel like smoking too many cigarettes.

Though cigarette "hangovers" are far worse IMO.

I remember when I used   to work nights at a bar that there were a few times I smoked a whole pack of cigarettes in one night (8 hour shift).

Breathing would be hell the next morning.

Like someone took a Brillo pad and really gave your windpipe and lungs the once over before coating bits of it all with rubber cement.

Needless to say it only happened a few times.

Can't say I've ever had that happen with the wacky tobaccy though.

Although if you never had tried it before, you could quite possibly feel a little "out of sorts" the next day.

Nothing like a Reefer Madness-esque scenario of you running off from work to steal Twinkies at the AM/PM on your 15 min. break.

And nothing compared to the unGodly hell of shuffling into work after a long night hoisting unknown amounts of a Jagermeister and Flaming Dr. Peppers into your face.

[69DodgeCharger]

"does not matter if they prefer it"

So now you and those of your mindset decide what is best for the patient? As for the harmful effects of smoking everbody of even average intelligence is aware of them. Medical marijuana use is not enough smoking to truly be considered harmful. It constitutes in one day what the average tobacco smoker consumes in less   than four hours. As far as using Marinol or smoking straight Marijuana, that is not your choice or those of your ideoligical mindset to make. That decision is to be left between the patient and their physician.  

"Drug doses as prescribed by doctors are constantly adjusted in accordance with the patient to best fit the patients needs. This is done with every drug prescribed by doctors.   Marinol prescriptions are no different."

A Doctors first responibility to the patient in the prescribing of any drug is to adhere to the patients wishes and advice as to which method of prescriptions/treatment are providing the best result for them as an individual.


"Do you have proof other than being a user?   If you read more than just my first two posts then maybe you can understand what the long term effects of the drug will be, not only on the individual but the entire population as a whole."

As somebody who actually has 20+ years of hands on experience I can assure you that I have more experience than you could ever glean from thousands of hours of online research and biased opinions. Also, I want to add that I have read every single post on this subject and have reviewed it repeatedly to make sure I make an informed statement......something you seem to lack the ability to do!

You rant on and on about your knowledge of the subject, but any intelligent person can see beyond your facade and see the personal opinions behind your statements. You can't seperate your personal feelings from fact. A classic sign of those who wish to impose thier personal beliefs upon others. When confronted with facts your resort to personal attacks, direct and indirect to defend your opinions on whatever subject you may be debating. If you had read and retained any of my previous posts you would know that I know longer use Marijuna due to my job requirements! We are all waiting for you to provide the locations and sites to review your "research" into this subject. I noticed you didn't provide any of them with your most recent posts. Instead you just offered more of your personal opinions.


If you consider the truth to be accusations and vulgar language perhaps you should not post about subjects upon which you have no defense for your opinions!

You are out of the "loop" on this subject as far as the American public is concerned. Sorry if you can't deal with that. Perhaps you shoud seek professional counseling and a prescription of whatever f'ked up drug of the week they are prescribing to help you get over your "beliefs"

After all you wouldn't want to end up a pothead or somethng would you?

[Johnny SixPack]

Simmer down now.  

[Charger_Fan]

Simmer down now.  

No need for this thread to go up in smoke.


So...guys, how much is a bag?