Denver legalizes marijuana possession...........>>>>

[Johnny SixPack]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051102/ap_on_el_st_lo/denver_marijuana

It's a damn site safer than alcohol and let's be serious here... how asinine is it to outlaw a plant?  

What do you guys think?


Johnny

[derailed]

    Thats great, but i hope this isnt another one of those deals where its legal to posses it but illegal to obtain it?? I could never figure that one out

[Brock Samson]

 what happens is once the Locals come out of the woodwork and begin to relax and feel all legit, the Feds come in and bust everyone, that's what happened here... 

[Old Moparz]

what happens is once the Locals come out of the woodwork and begin to relax and feel all legit, the Feds come in and bust everyone, that's what happened here...  

So how long were you away? 

[Brock Samson]

im all legit these days... 

[Johnny SixPack]

im all legit these days...  

Did I miss a memo?

[Orange_Crush]

I don't know....half the fun of weed is the feeling that you're getting away with something. 

[Johnny SixPack]

I don't know....half the fun of weed is the feeling that you're getting away with something.  

Just toke up in front of the FBI building.

"The measure would not affect the medical marijuana law voters approved in 2000. In June, the  U.S. Supreme Court ruled that medical marijuana laws in Colorado and nine other states would not protect licensed users from federal prosecution."

This measure Denver passed doesn't mean sh*te to the Feds, but it'll be interesting to see what Denver/Colorado's federal transportation funding looks like in the near future.  

[RD]

another nail in the coffin of many.

remember that advertisement were the kid is sittin outside the playground until late at night, because his brother (the dope head) was too busy tokin' it up to pick up his lil brother?

This may not be the same scenario, but it sends a signals to kids that puts marijuana in a positive light.  Not good in my opinion.  This vote is a gateway to abuse just like marijuana is a gateway drug.  my 2 pennies.

Marijuana is 5x worse than smoking cigarettes by the way based upon the carcinogenic substances being greater in number, plus the fact that when individuals smoke marijuana they are more apt to hold the marijuana smoke in their lungs for longer periods of time.

[Mudhawg]

That will be good for Randy Moss and Ricky Williams when the Raiders and the Fish go to Denver and play the Donkeys.

[Orange_Crush]

another nail in the coffin of many.

remember that advertisement were the kid is sittin outside the playground until late at night, because his brother (the dope head) was too busy tokin' it up to pick up his lil brother?

This may not be the same scenario, but it sends a signals to kids that puts marijuana in a positive light.   Not good in my opinion.   This vote is a gateway to abuse just like marijuana is a gateway drug.   my 2 pennies.

Marijuana is 5x worse than smoking cigarettes by the way based upon the carcinogenic substances being greater in number, plus the fact that when individuals smoke marijuana they are more apt to hold the marijuana smoke in their lungs for longer periods of time.

Meh...everything you said could also be said about acohol.

I know from my time as a smoker that when you plug one hole, another one opens up.  Marijuana enforcement is, by and large, a lost cause.  DEA agents LOOOVE to have pics of themselves taken with all the bundles of weed or pot plants that they have confiscated.  They have press conferences displaying their latest busts...but while they're doing that, the price just goes up a little and a hundred other sources rush in to fill the void.

Whether its coming from the appalachians, Vancouver, Mexico, Colombia, Jamaica, or under the grow lights in the basement of the house down the street...its everywhere.  Might as well give up our "enforcement" and spend the wasted money on something more worthwhile.

[bull]

That will be good for Randy Moss and Ricky Williams when the Raiders and the Fish go to Denver and play the Donkeys.

Did you see this sentence in the link above? "Seattle, Oakland, Calif., and a few college towns already have laws making possession the lowest law enforcement priority." Randy Moss is in Randy Moss Nirvana already.

What it really means is that Denver is going to get leaned on by the feds and end up losing out on a lot of federal tax dollars. That and the high probability that some court will overturn the ruling and it will be stuck in court battles for years wasting time and money just because a few potheads can't handle reality 24/7.

[69bananabeast]

heard that it wont make a difference when passed since the police will go by state law not city

[Orange_Crush]

heard that it wont make a difference when passed since the police will go by state law not city

Yeah...STATE police.

Denver police is a different story.

[John_Kunkel]

This vote is a gateway to abuse just like marijuana is a gateway drug.   my 2 pennies.

I was waiting for that line of logic to appear. Mary Jane is a gateway to heroin just like beer is a gateway to Ron Rico and lettuce is a gateway to a Big Mac.

Some people will become addicted to anything, that's no reason to deny the use of those substances to those who can control their consumption.

Laws have never stopped consumption and merely make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.

[golden73]

Laws have never stopped consumption and merely make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.

[Charger_Fan]

What it really means is that Denver is going to get leaned on by the feds and end up losing out on a lot of federal tax dollars. That and the high probability that some court will overturn the ruling and it will be stuck in court battles for years wasting time and money just because a few potheads can't handle reality 24/7.

No, no, no...what it really means is that Denver's street congestion problem is going to get worse. I've already heard from 3 guys today that they wanna move to Denver!

[Ponch ®]

[Brock Samson]

yeah addictive personalities,.. I don't know any of those..  I don't have any problems with pot General Lee, but it sure can be a gateway drug to other things addicitve,.. like crank which i sure the hell do have a problem with along with with other ad things lik bhad sphellin an no punkchuation,.. abbynormal pronounancyation and nhot checkin yur whurk. 

[Johnny SixPack]

yeah addictive personalities,.. I don't know any of those..   I don't have any problems with pot General Lee, but it sure can be a gateway drug to other things addicitve,.. like crank which i sure the hell do have a problem with along with with other ad things lik bhad sphellin an no punkchuation,.. abbynormal pronounancyation and nhot checkin yur whurk.  

You're high right now!  

On life.

Right?

[RD]

another nail in the coffin of many.

remember that advertisement were the kid is sittin outside the playground until late at night, because his brother (the dope head) was too busy tokin' it up to pick up his lil brother?

This may not be the same scenario, but it sends a signals to kids that puts marijuana in a positive light.   Not good in my opinion.   This vote is a gateway to abuse just like marijuana is a gateway drug.   my 2 pennies.

Marijuana is 5x worse than smoking cigarettes by the way based upon the carcinogenic substances being greater in number, plus the fact that when individuals smoke marijuana they are more apt to hold the marijuana smoke in their lungs for longer periods of time.

I am not condoning alcohol or cigarette smoking either.  Both of them are just as lethal as marijuana in my book.

Meh...everything you said could also be said about acohol.

I know from my time as a smoker that when you plug one hole, another one opens up.   Marijuana enforcement is, by and large, a lost cause.   DEA agents LOOOVE to have pics of themselves taken with all the bundles of weed or pot plants that they have confiscated.   They have press conferences displaying their latest busts...but while they're doing that, the price just goes up a little and a hundred other sources rush in to fill the void.

Whether its coming from the appalachians, Vancouver, Mexico, Colombia, Jamaica, or under the grow lights in the basement of the house down the street...its everywhere.   Might as well give up our "enforcement" and spend the wasted money on something more worthwhile.

[RD]

This vote is a gateway to abuse just like marijuana is a gateway drug.   my 2 pennies.

I was waiting for that line of logic to appear. Mary Jane is a gateway to heroin just like beer is a gateway to Ron Rico and lettuce is a gateway to a Big Mac.

The logic is sound.  Marijuana is a gateway drug.  There is no disputing that fact.  The effects caused by marijuana causes the individual to become addicted.  This addiction leads to continued usage of the drug.  The continued usage leads to tolerance.  Tolerance leads to more usage or the desire to try other drugs to reach the same effect and to have the effect last longer.  Those that are associated with marijuana usage, know someone who can get them something other than marijuana.  This type of environment is the prime environment for experimentation and the usage of other drugs to achieve the desired hallucogenic effect.  Though this may not happen to all people, to deny that it happens at all is just ignorance.  Alcohol is a gateway drug to barbituates due to the fact that both achieve the desired depressant effect and both react to the neurotransmitters in the brain very similarly.

Some people will become addicted to anything, that's no reason to deny the use of those substances to those who can control their consumption.

How do you know they can control their consumption?  Marijuana is addictive.  When someone is addicted to something, they do not control their consumption, the drug controls their consumption.  Addiction is:

Main Entry: ad ·dic ·tion
Pronunciation: &-'dik-sh&n, a-
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being addicted <addiction to reading>
2 : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

Laws have never stopped consumption and merely make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.

JK, never took you as a libertarian? hehe

[Brock Samson]

 Next, You'll be outlawing this website. 

[Vainglory, Esq.]

I don't buy it RD.  People don't go through physical withdrawal symptoms with marijuana like they do with the other substances listed in your definition.  The physiological effects are completely different, and it's widely known that marijuana is not a technically addictive substance - the only way you could argue otherwise is by looking at people who like being high so much that they sacrifice other considerations to get there.  That being said, I like riding a motorcycle so much that I sacrifice the safety of a car; I like muscle cars so much that I sacrifice the creature comforts of new ones; I enjoy going out on weekends so much that I generally put off my work until Sunday.  Am I addicted to these things?  No, because addiction is a physiological condition, and you don't get it from marijuana.  What you get is a matter of mixed up priorities.

And as regards the gateway drug thing, I guess in certain circumstances it's plausible - when you're high you're more likely to have impaired judgment and think that it's "okay" to try the other drugs.  (That being said, your alcohol to barbiturates example was asinine; my friends and I drink a lot - and who didn't in their early twenties? - and I've never had any inclination to try barbiturates.)  But look at it this way, if the only place you can get marijuana is from a drug dealer who is pushing harder substances, then the temptation to "upgrade" your drugs is always there.  If you can get it legit, where is that temptation?  Marijuana would no longer be associated with the addictive drugs if you could just buy it over the counter or grow it in your kitchen.

I'm not a big fan of marijuana, and I've only smoked it a few times, and this was when I was visiting Amsterdam so it actually was legal, but I really don't see the efficacy of making stoners into criminals.  Let them smoke up and veg out and society is none the worse off.  Marijuana should be treated like alcohol - you're free to use it, even to your detriment, but if you do something destructive under the influence the penalties ought to be severe.

[RD]

I don't buy it RD.   People don't go through physical withdrawal symptoms with marijuana like they do with the other substances listed in your definition. The physiological effects are completely different, and it's widely known that marijuana is not a technically addictive substance - the only way you could argue otherwise is by looking at people who like being high so much that they sacrifice other considerations to get there.

You do not have to have physical withdrawal symptoms for a drug to be addictive.   There are such withdrawal symptoms that are only brain associated.   How is marijuana not addictive?   Those that smoke it, continue to smoke it to achieve that "high" that they attain.   If they continue to smoke it to get that "high", then that is addiction.

That being said, I like riding a motorcycle so much that I sacrifice the safety of a car; I like muscle cars so much that I sacrifice the creature comforts of new ones; I enjoy going out on weekends so much that I generally put off my work until Sunday.   Am I addicted to these things?   No, because addiction is a physiological condition, and you don't get it from marijuana.   What you get is a matter of mixed up priorities.

Addiction is not just physiological.   It can also be associated to a mental well being.   Why do people do drugs? Some do it to get away from a depressive state (the usage of amphetamines or uppers).   There are drugs out there (psychotic drugs/anti-psychotic drugs) that address specifically moods, mental health, etc.. and these drugs are being used on the street and are highly addictive.   They are used to attain a mental state other than the one they are in.   Some of the withdrawal symptoms are physical, but mostly they are mental.  Marijuana does have some physical withdrawals:

Q: Can a person become addicted to marijuana?
A: Yes. While not everyone who uses marijuana becomes addicted, when a user begins to seek out and take the drug compulsively, that person is said to be dependent on the drug or addicted to it. In 2002, over 280,000 people entering drug treatment programs reported marijuana as their primary drug of abuse, showing they needed help to stop using (12).


Some heavy users of marijuana show signs of withdrawal when they do not use the drug. They develop symptoms such as restlessness, loss of appetite, trouble sleeping, weight loss, and shaky hands.

According to one study, marijuana use by teenagers who have prior serious antisocial problems can quickly lead to dependence on the drug. That study also found that, for troubled teenagers using tobacco, alcohol, and marijuana, progression from their first use of marijuana to regular use was about as rapid as their progression to regular tobacco use, and more rapid than the progression to regular use of alcohol (4).

http://www.drugabuse.gov/MarijBroch/parentpg17-18N.html#Addicted

And as regards the gateway drug thing, I guess in certain circumstances it's plausible - when you're high you're more likely to have impaired judgment and think that it's "okay" to try the other drugs.   (That being said, your alcohol to barbiturates example was asinine; my friends and I drink a lot - and who didn't in their early twenties? - and I've never had any inclination to try barbiturates.)

I never did say that everyone will do it.   In that case I should have used barbituates or benzodiazepenes, but I have not.   I just stated that the classification of "gateway" i.e. definition is a drug that will allow the user to most likely try other drugs that produce the same effect as the first drug initially tried.   Not everyone will, but the drugs effects are similar to other drugs, hence those that enjoy drug abuse would most likely try the other drugs that produce the desired effect.

But look at it this way, if the only place you can get marijuana is from a drug dealer who is pushing harder substances, then the temptation to "upgrade" your drugs is always there.   If you can get it legit, where is that temptation?   Marijuana would no longer be associated with the addictive drugs if you could just buy it over the counter or grow it in your kitchen.

Alcohol and cigarettes are considered addictive too and they are legal.   Nicotine is a schedule II drug.   That means that it is has a recognized medical use, but has severe abuse potential.   Ya wanna know other schedule II drugs?   Well there is morphine, methadone, amphetamines, cocaine, heroine....   Marijuana is a schedule I drug, it has no accepted medical use.   I didnt classify it, the FDA did.

I'm not a big fan of marijuana, and I've only smoked it a few times, and this was when I was visiting Amsterdam so it actually was legal, but I really don't see the efficacy of making stoners into criminals.   Let them smoke up and veg out and society is none the worse off.   Marijuana should be treated like alcohol - you're free to use it, even to your detriment, but if you do something destructive under the influence the penalties ought to be severe.

I agree with you.   I had tried it once.   But if we just assume that it is not hazardous and turn a blind eye, then it will get worse.   You have heard of the "Broken Windows Theory" haven't you?   It applies here.   If we just let the smokers smoke up and make marijuana legal, I know that there will be a lot of unnecessary deaths, injuries, and wasted lives out there.   I do not want to be that parent that is called in the middle of the night because my daughter smoked a lot of pot and died in a car accident because she was under the influence.   I could do everything I can within my power to inform her, educate her, and advise her that marijuana is bad, but if it is legal and I am not around, how will I stop her or the person who is under the influence from killing her?

Q: How does marijuana affect driving?
A: Marijuana affects many skills required for safe driving: alertness, concentration, coordination, and reaction time. These effects can last up to 24 hours after smoking marijuana. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and sounds on the road.

There are data showing that marijuana can play a role in crashes. Studies show that approximately 6-11 percent of fatal accident victims tested positive for THC. In many of these cases, alcohol was detected as well. When users combine marijuana with alcohol, as they often do, the hazards of driving can be more severe that with either drug alone. In a study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a moderate dose of marijuana alone was shown to impair driving performance; however, the effects of even a low dose of marijuana combined with alcohol were markedly greater than for either drug alone.

In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine (2). Data also show that while smoking marijuana, people show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had too much to drink (11).

http://www.drugabuse.gov/MarijBroch/parentpg11-12N.html#Harmful

We know the stuff is not good for humans.   We know that it kills brain cells, fades intelligence, retards physical functioning.

Long term effects:

http://www.drugabuse.gov/MarijBroch/parentpg13-14N.html

sorry for the long response, but I know how everyone likes to see sources, and well that is just one site.  I am currently in an addictions class.  A lot of the information I am regurgitating, I did not know before the class, so I am happy to just pass it on.