paint bare metal

[Charger-Bodie]

The promlem with self etch and epoxy over it is that some poly surfacers and primer surfacers with react with it and lift.

IMO self etch is a great product for something that needs zero to minimal work, but isnt going to be topcoated for a while.

Epoxy directly over the metal works great cause it seals weld from patch work etc. and you can do filler work right over it.

[chargerscott]

so i can epoxy bare metal and have no problems?

i'm going to have my Charger soda blasted, then blow it for 3.5 hours, and then blow it somemore, then sand with 80 grit all over, then clean with thinner and the epoxy primmer and the do some bodywork and paint lime green.

[Charger-Bodie]

so i can epoxy bare metal and have no problems?

i'm going to have my Charger soda blasted, then blow it for 3.5 hours, and then blow it somemore, then sand with 80 grit all over, then clean with thinner and the epoxy primmer and the do some bodywork and paint lime green.

Yes , but when ever you have something soda blasted you need to be VERY thorough with sanding the bare metal cause the soda actually polishes the metal which inturn causes poor adhesion, if not preped right.

[chargerscott]

i started stripping the paint with a razor blade man it is alot of work but i got the truck lid and pass quarter done within to hour. i figure i'll sand the bare metal down with 80 grit and then apply self etching primer wait a day then epoxy primer the do body work, spot prime then paint lime green.

[chargerscott]

almost stripped

[superbirdtom]

after reading all the methods on previous pages and doing body restorations and aircraft painting since 1973 I have seen it all and the best way is self etch followed 2 hours later by epoxy primer . i use dp 50 grey as it is thicker than dp 40 and covers in half the materials . do all your metal work first and get your metal as straight as you can.
you can then spread a skim coat over entire car . I use napa tec supreme . it is by far the best bondo I have ever used ,it just came out and is more pinhole free than anything I have ever used , and Ive used them all the worst is the rage gold it is crapo compared to the napa stuff.

all left over exposed metal you can just go over it with more dp-50 from ppg. before you use their high fill primer. theres a lot of good ones though , for polishing paint a brand called racers is so superor to most its not even close. most have not even heard of it.

I painted a 49 buick special for a guy  complete resto . 2 weeks later it had an engine fire and had to redo the whole front end, well when i applied paint stripper to the whole mess the paint came off but it didn't even touch the trio prime self etch primer from martin senour. it was impregnated into the steel  amazing. had to get it bead blasted off. .   anyway good luck lotsa good info and brands discussed here for sure and methods.

[Doright]

The promlem with self etch and epoxy over it is that some poly surfacers and primer surfacers with react with it and lift.
Epoxy directly over the metal works great cause it seals weld from patch work etc. and you can do filler work right over it.

[superbirdtom]

I HAVE NO PROBEM WITH EPOXY RIGHT OVER BARE METAL. I HAVE DONE THE METAL ETCH ROUTE TOO , WHERE YOU USE AN ETCH CONVERSION COATING ON THE METAL AND THEN EPOXY PRIMER IT. SAME PRINCIPAL AS WHEN I WAS DOING AIRCRAFT PAINTING ,THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY CLEAN ALUMINUM IS TO ETCH IT  ONLY DIFF IS YOU HAVE TO USE ALODINE NEXT ON ALUMINUM. BEFORE EPOXY PRIMER OR THE NEW CHROMATE PRIMERS .

[Doright]

No need to Yell or get upset.

Aluminum is different story all together especially on Aircraft look at my signature I know how its supposed to be done on ACFT.

I just agreed with the way that he said he does it, I am planning the same on my car's!

I am NOT saying your way is wrong!

REPEAT!!!

I am NOT saying your way is wrong!

There are many ways to paint a car

[Doright]

For any one that Care's
Alodine is not used for cleaning Aluminum.

Aircraft Aluminum
First Use a Product called Alumiprep to Etch it cleaning & opening the metal Alodine is then used to Etch it again leaving a Clear or Gold color depending on Color used comes in clear or gold color that seals it From corrosion. It is then sealed again with Zinc Chromate primer.

On a side note NOT all places use the Alumiprep as they should, Few read and adhere to the instructions for the Alodine.

Even when patching Aircraft parts together all parts are treated like this to prevent corrosion.

Both of these documents only take a few minutes to read


http://www.chemical-supermarket.com/files/Henkel%20Alodine%20Conversion%20Coatings/Alumiprep%2033,%20Technical%20Process%20Bulletin.pdf


https://tds.us.henkel.com//NA/UT/HNAUTTDS.nsf/web/5966875CA5C37A6E852571ED0055ED8E/$File/ALODINE®%201201-EN.pdf
For what ever reason this link wont copy and past right here but if you copy and past it into your browser it does
  

[superbirdtom]

hey My caps were locked and I was bleary eyed I wasn't trying to yell.   anyway sometimes when I try to explain things it comes out wrong . yes there are many ways to do a car for sure. I do bondo over metal ,I also bondo over epoxy, I also etch prime then epoxy then bondo over that I also etch metal with conversion coat phosphate then epoxy then bondo. each one is ok but the one that lasts the longest for me anyway is the self etch epoxy bondo route.>>

Now when I was talking about aluminum my point is that to clean any metal, etching is the way to get it the cleanest. on aluminum you should alodine it after the etch.I have done it many many times., and could go into great detail why how etc,but you have that covered. aircraft painting is the worst torture beyond comprehension .

I have then seen and done all the car steps above on aircraft too. I have painted over 100 aircraft. from a long ez to a falcon 200 to t-28 trainer at-6 texan dehavilland beavers ,otters. I painted the helicopter on airwolf with the stars and stripes santini air. blah ad nauseum.  Hey I have had my share of disasters and flub ups big time. I am just trying to spread around this site my experience to novices that are just trying to giterdone. and have the satisfaction of saying hey I did most of this myself. you and I have both seen the same and worked for ultra rich guys that show up at a car show ,and sweep all the trophys and never turned a screw on the car. 

That at one point really turned me off of car shows. then theres the pickers who blab out loud HEY LOOK HE MISSED THIS.  like every car at a show has to be a work of art with 5000 hours into it. like we don't know about that little flaw . anyway take care I hope to never offend anyone on these boards that is not my personality 

[Charger-Bodie]

In my opinion it is bad advice to a do-it-your-selfer  to put self etch under the epoxy primer! WHY? , because there is only a narrow window of products that wont blow up when primer surfacering over that combo.

Is it something a professional with lots of experience around chemicals can get away? Yes, But most of the guys on these types of forums ( especially if they are asking questions) don't have that experience. And therefor don't need any more headaches than they will allready inevitably have..........Rant over.

[mikepmcs]

YES..I believe you are correct sir(in my best Ed McMahon voice)

EDIT.....crap, I was answering Leon's question from page one.  I really gotta pay more attention.

[mikepmcs]

 

[superbirdtom]

In my opinion it is bad advice to a do-it-your-selfer  to put self etch under the epoxy primer! WHY? , because there is only a narrow window of products that wont blow up when primer surfacering over that combo.

Is it something a professional with lots of experience around chemicals can get away? Yes, But most of the guys on these types of forums ( especially if they are asking questions) don't have that experience. And therefor don't need any more headaches than they will allready inevitably have..........Rant over.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>AGREED! SBT       

[Doright]

hey My caps were locked and I was bleary eyed I wasn't trying to yell.   anyway sometimes when I try to explain things it comes out wrong . yes there are many ways to do a car for sure. I do bondo over metal ,I also bondo over epoxy, I also etch prime then epoxy then bondo over that I also etch metal with conversion coat phosphate then epoxy then bondo. each one is ok but the one that lasts the longest for me anyway is the self etch epoxy bondo route.>>

Now when I was talking about aluminum my point is that to clean any metal, etching is the way to get it the cleanest. on aluminum you should alodine it after the etch.I have done it many many times., and could go into great detail why how etc,but you have that covered. aircraft painting is the worst torture beyond comprehension .

I have then seen and done all the car steps above on aircraft too. I have painted over 100 aircraft. from a long ez to a falcon 200 to t-28 trainer at-6 texan dehavilland beavers ,otters. I painted the helicopter on airwolf with the stars and stripes santini air. blah ad nauseum.  Hey I have had my share of disasters and flub ups big time. I am just trying to spread around this site my experience to novices that are just trying to giterdone. and have the satisfaction of saying hey I did most of this myself. you and I have both seen the same and worked for ultra rich guys that show up at a car show ,and sweep all the trophys and never turned a screw on the car. 

That at one point really turned me off of car shows. then theres the pickers who blab out loud HEY LOOK HE MISSED THIS.  like every car at a show has to be a work of art with 5000 hours into it. like we don't know about that little flaw . anyway take care I hope to never offend anyone on these boards that is not my personality 

Hey No problems here! Very good advise if you ask me 
The use of Etching Primers over bare steel metal is dieing one reason is because of the number's of failures out there.
The thought of the failures is your entrapping Acid etch in the paint.
If the rust is what you are trying to stop all you have to do is seal out air and water and the Epoxy does that very well.
I had to have this BEAT into my head, We are not painting Plane's or Aluminum were Painting Steel car's no need to etch the steel.
any way many ways to do it its your car and your way is the best way!


I used too Critic others paint job's too, pointing out the flaws too Until I started painting them! now I know how hard it is!
By the way I too hope to never offend any one just passing on what I have learned.