Belgian Stroker

[frederick]

in Holland (next to Beglium) we have pumpgas @ 100 octane 

Actually we don't, this is acommon mistake to make.
It's just that we use a different fuel octane rating in Europe.
USA use PON, Pump Octane Number, Europe uses RON, Research Octane Number.
98RON Europe  =   94PON USA
95RON Europe  =   91PON USA

See here for more details:
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html

Frederick

[Belgium R/T -68]

in Holland (next to Beglium) we have pumpgas @ 100 octane 

Actually we don't, this is acommon mistake to make.
It's just that we use a different fuel octane rating in Europe.
USA use PON, Pump Octane Number, Europe uses RON, Research Octane Number.
98RON Europe  =   94PON USA
95RON Europe  =   91PON USA

See here for more details:
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html

Frederick

Frederick,
I have always thought it was something like that. Thanks for the link.

//Per

[firefighter3931]

I took up on one of Rons other suggestion concerning my compression so I will get my Heads done so they messure 88cc instead
of the 84cc I have now. Now I have to learn how to messure the crankshaft with plastigauge, in the rebuildbooks they make it easy,
-"if not within tolerance, fix it". Easy said.

Per, why not bring the crank and rods to the machineshop and have him mic out the main & rod journals. 

Have the rod bolts cycled and the big & small ends measured while you're at it. The sizing might be slightly off and need a touchup with the hone for proper fit. 



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Ron,
I thought 440source did that, how can they otherwise know what bearings and pistonpins I need?

[Belgium R/T -68]

After 10 days at Belgian customs Rons package finally arrived  (Thanks again Ron) with Fabulous dual fuellines, Firecore
sparkplugcables for Headers and some other goodies, among that a special bracket to use for the coil when using fabulous fuellines.
Will be useful for the GTX. My engine will look fabulous fantastic.

[firefighter3931]

Ron,
I thought 440source did that, how can they otherwise know what bearings and pistonpins I need?

Per, i would not trust 440 Source or any other manufacturer when it comes to precision parts. They give their supplier/manufacturer the desired "specs" but there's no guarantee that everything is "spot on". 

More times than not there is some massageing required....



Ron

[firefighter3931]

After 10 days at Belgian customs Rons package finally arrived  (Thanks again Ron) with Fabulous dual fuellines, Firecore
sparkplugcables for Headers and some other goodies, among that a special bracket to use for the coil when using fabulous fuellines.
Will be useful for the GTX. My engine will look fabulous fantastic.

Excellent....glad to see everything arrived in one piece. 

Looking forward to some Charger progress pics. Now you can install the K-frame and suspension to make it a Roller. 




Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Todat it was really the start of the build. Crankshaft looking very good and the plastigage said approx .0025
Checked piston to wall clearence and that was also OK and then I tried to messure deckheight but it's difficult without rings.
It will be around .020", I will check again when the rings are on. Only setback today was that the new rear sealcap from 440source
has to small holes, can't get the key in there to tighten it. Other issues are in different posts.

BTW, I used the washers coming with the ARP mainbolts, correct?

[firefighter3931]

Todat it was really the start of the build. Crankshaft looking very good and the plastigage said approx .0025

Good news....that .025 is perfect. Same readings on the rods and mains ?

BTW, I used the washers coming with the ARP mainbolts, correct?

Yes, the washers must be used 



Ron

[six-tee-nine]

Per,

Always ready to learn......how exactly did you measure the piston to wall clearance?
Feeler gauge?

[Belgium R/T -68]

Per,

Always ready to learn......how exactly did you measure the piston to wall clearance?
Feeler gauge?

Koen,
Yes I used feeler gauges. But you need a set of very thin ones because you need to use several to be exact. Mine are in mm, don't have inch.

//Per

[Belgium R/T -68]

Well,Well,Well, when will my bad luck stop concerning engines. The rods doesn't fit on the rodjournals, to check for clearence is
normal but this is rediculous. Kit/rod instructionsheet doesn't say that you have to remove 0.2" on each rod. Is this normal or is it only me?

[firefighter3931]

Well,Well,Well, when will my bad luck stop concerning engines. The rods doesn't fit on the rodjournals, to check for clearence is
normal but this is rediculous. Kit/rod instructionsheet doesn't say that you have to remove 0.2" on each rod. Is this normal or is it only me?

Well, that's not good 

Have i convinced you yet to take everything to a machinist and have it  properly ?



Ron

[Challenger340]

I'm not understanding "what" doesn't fit ?

Have you made sure, to put the "big chamfer" on the Rod big end, towards the radius filet on the crank ? (brg tangs down )

Bob out.

[Belgium R/T -68]

Well,Well,Well, when will my bad luck stop concerning engines. The rods doesn't fit on the rodjournals, to check for clearence is
normal but this is rediculous. Kit/rod instructionsheet doesn't say that you have to remove 0.2" on each rod. Is this normal or is it only me?

Well, that's not good 

Have i convinced you yet to take everything to a machinist and have it  properly ?

Ron,
How do I or machinist know what the dimensions should be if the supplier doesn't inform you this could be the case?
Are the rods OK but the crank not? My eagle rods in the GTX fitted like my **** in my wife.


Bob,
Don't really understand what you mean? The chamferd part of the rod is towards the outside of the block on both rods on the pic.

[Belgium R/T -68]

All rods messure 1.014, width. My stock ones are 1.018-1.027 so is it better to machine the crank then the rods?

I just find that if you pay 2000$ for a balanced kit you don't expect to have to bring it to a machineshop for heavy machining.
Smaller clearence problem is normal but this is not a clearenceproblem, it's a fittingproblem. At least you should be informed and
the messurements should be included. Just like with the pistons and rings. That's my opinion, sorry if I'm a little bit negative for the moment
but if I knew this I would have bought parts separatly and made a final balance here.

[firefighter3931]

My eagle rods in the GTX fitted like my **** in my wife.

Better hope that the wife doesn't read this thread ! 

Ron,
How do I or machinist know what the dimensions should be if the supplier doesn't inform you this could be the case?
Are the rods OK but the crank not?

I am assuming that you installed the chamferred side towards the fillet so based on that it looks like the crank wasn't machined properly. My comments regarding the machinist relate to these types of issues....let him mock up the rotating assembly and determine what (if anything) needs corrected and have it done. I understand you want to do the assembly.....hey i'm the same way, BUT i also want to make sure everything is perfect before i start building. 

Micrometers, dial bore guages are better and more accurate than feeler guages and plastigage. There is a long list of things that need to be checked before the engine is assembled and most of those measurements are best done with precision tools. The difference between an average build and an exceptional one is the quality of machinework....this is one area where i refuse to cut corners. I learned that lesson many years ago. 

All rods messure 1.014, width. My stock ones are 1.018-1.027 so is it better to machine the crank then the rods?

The rod big end width is NOT the issue. 



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

I fully agree with you Ron concerning machineshops but please understand that in Belgium you have no machineshops familiar
with V8 HP engines. Ok they can bore a block and fix a crank but a V8 is the most difficult engine to balance due to it's design.

If you want to let somebody build your engine here there is only one place, sixpackspeedshop, they do a great job but also needs to
have their parts machined in neighbour country The Netherlands for the same reason. They charge 2000$ for the assemblywork.

That's why I try to do as much as I can myself but I will bring the crank and rods to the place who did my GTX and stroker block,
they make crankshafts, for all kind of vehicles.

I guess living in US/Canada is a advantage when being a Moparfreak.

[Belgium R/T -68]

I want to apologize for beeing the biggest a**hole on earth. This night I couldn't sleep because I was thinking of
the crankshaft and went up after a while and read every page of the 440source website concerning bearings,crankshafts and rods.

The problem was I was thinking of the groove in the bearing and rod when everybody (Ron, Bob, 440source) was talking about the chamfered
part of the bearing. That's why my bearings were put wrongly and the rods didn't fit.

Now I have learned that stroked cranks has a 2.200 chevy journal while stock has 2.38. The messuring of my stockparts made me thinking
this had to be my mistake.

Lessons learned: Read the instructions very carefully even if you think you know the job. I have build plenty of engines but never worked with chamfered bearings.

[firefighter3931]

Now I have learned that stroked cranks has a 2.200 chevy journal while stock has 2.38. The messuring of my stockparts made me thinking
this had to be my mistake.

Lessons learned: Read the instructions very carefully even if you think you know the job. I have build plenty of engines but never worked with chamfered bearings.

Per, not all stroker cranks use the small 2.2 chevy bb journal....most 4.15 stroker kits use the stock BB mopar size  Your kit should have 6.76 rods with the "stock" big end journal. So, what size rods do you have here ?

Building a stroker takes a little more attention to detail as you're finding out. 



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Now I have learned that stroked cranks has a 2.200 chevy journal while stock has 2.38. The messuring of my stockparts made me thinking
this had to be my mistake.

Lessons learned: Read the instructions very carefully even if you think you know the job. I have build plenty of engines but never worked with chamfered bearings.

Per, not all stroker cranks use the small 2.2 chevy bb journal....most 4.15 stroker kits use the stock BB mopar size  Your kit should have 6.76 rods with the "stock" big end journal. So, what size rods do you have here ?

Building a stroker takes a little more attention to detail as you're finding out. 



Ron

Ron,
My rods are #6760.990.2  OK?

BTW, all rods and mains are around 0.025 clearence

[firefighter3931]

Now I have learned that stroked cranks has a 2.200 chevy journal while stock has 2.38. The messuring of my stockparts made me thinking
this had to be my mistake.

Lessons learned: Read the instructions very carefully even if you think you know the job. I have build plenty of engines but never worked with chamfered bearings.

Per, not all stroker cranks use the small 2.2 chevy bb journal....most 4.15 stroker kits use the stock BB mopar size  Your kit should have 6.76 rods with the "stock" big end journal. So, what size rods do you have here ?

Building a stroker takes a little more attention to detail as you're finding out. 



Ron

Ron,
My rods are #6760.990.2  OK?

BTW, all rods and mains are around 0.025 clearence

Per, those rods have the standard "Mopar" size 2.375 big end with the .990 "chevy" sized piston pin. 

Have a look on the 440source website : http://www.440source.com/rods.htm

Rod & Main clearances look good ! 



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Could assemble piston 1 and 2. Ringap were set according to instruction, remember to file off the edges so the rings can travel around in the bore.!
Now the engine will rest a little bit, start working monday and the heads are still at the shop for the cc increase.

[Challenger340]

Gla to hear the problem is cured !   


They charge HOW MUCH to do WHAT ?

and they SEND IT OUT to another COUNTRY for machining ?

We're living on the wrong continent methinks ?

Bob(depressed) out.

[Belgium R/T -68]

Gla to hear the problem is cured !   


They charge HOW MUCH to do WHAT ?

and they SEND IT OUT to another COUNTRY for machining ?

We're living on the wrong continent methinks ?

Bob(depressed) out.

I rather buy a lot of tires for that money.