what is TRULY #s matching ?????????? is MOPAR the only 1

[rav440]

got this idea of a question from another thread . anyway i have argued with my friends for years over the whole #s mathing thing mainly the GM stuff CHEVELLES , GTOs , CAMAROs / " CAMEROs , for the guys who own the but yet have no clue how it is spelled  " 442s , GSs ect ect ect ........

am i wrong the GM isnt #s matching but only DATE CODE correct   that meaning there isnt a VIN stamped on the block or trans . but just date code #s .

im not sure about what FORD & AMC do but it is my understanding the only MOPAR is truly #s matching from 1968 on .

[Ghoste]

Stamping the vin into secret locations and on major components (engine trans etc) was a federally mandated act to help prevent car theft.  Date coding was done to help with warranty.

[rav440]

Stamping the vin into secret locations and on major components (engine trans etc) was a federally mandated act to help prevent car theft.  Date coding was done to help with warranty.

so GM cars have a vin stamped on the engine block just like MOPAR ? 

[WingCharger]

Stamping the vin into secret locations and on major components (engine trans etc) was a federally mandated act to help prevent car theft.  Date coding was done to help with warranty.

so GM cars have a vin stamped on the engine block just like MOPAR ? 

NO!!! These parts are only dated. There is no way to prove if the engine in somebody's 1970 Camaro is the original!! All you can tell is the date they were produced. Same with the Tranny.
AMC also only date coded.

[Ghoste]

So if I find a number stamped on the top of the frame of a Chevelle and it matches a number stamped onto the flange of the transmission and that matches a number stamped on the front of the block and that matches a sequence of numbers in the vin I should assume it's coincidence?  I don't think they are nearly as extensive as Chrysler and it's far far easier to fraudulently portray a cloned GM car but there are some numbers on some GM's.  I defer to anyone who has one though because they are very much not my field at all.

[dstryr]

My 69 GTO Judge has the sequential VIN stamped on the front of the block, right behind the water pump inlet.  It also has an MUN(motor Unit Number) which is matched to production documents.  While I have heard the MUN identifying documents do exist they seem to be a closely guarded secret.  Having them available would allow nearly any Pontiac to become a #s car again.  There is a gigantic thread on the subject on performanceyears.com.

Oh, the auto trans has the VIN as well, and is original. 

I also had a 69 std GTO, 400 4sp, engine a trans had matching VINs, and my first 69 GTO 4speed car still had the original VIN matching trans. 

Pontiac started stamping VINs *I think* during '68 production, maybe towards the end of the production year if not the whole year.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Definitely vins on GM,at least 69 and up,Buicks  had their vin #'s stamped into the block ,on the 350 and 455's it was on the front of the drivers side just below the deck surface.And just as mopar did a code like HP on 440's,on the surface of the deck between 5+7 stamped in was the engine code,in 70 for a GS 455,it was SR,code SS for stage 1,code SR for 455 Riv's.

[greenpigs]

Pontiac started stamping VINs *I think* during '68 production, maybe towards the end of the production year if not the whole year

I looked into it some years ago and 67's didn't as my dad & I were looking at 67 Firebirds they only have the date code. So unless I am wrong any pontiac(GM?) 67 or older doesn't have a VIN stamped on the block.

[GreenMachine]

" CAMEROs , for the guys who own the but yet have no clue how it is spelled  "

Ha ha, I'd say more than 50% of Camaro owners, or at least the people publishing their "for sale" ads. I always picture it being some guy with a Mullet. I'm allowed to make fun, I've had 3 of them, just sold my last one (a '78) in 2005.

[Ghoste]

Greenpigs, the 67 not having them doesn't surprise me, it wasn't legislated until January of 68.  Even at that it seems to be somewhat haphazard.  Some Fords seem to have the numbers stamped on the engine after that date and some don't and many of them hid the vin stamping on the sheet metal in secret locations.  I don't really know anything about the AMC stuff or GM or Ford but if it became law, sooner or later they all had them on there someplace.  Pontiac was one of the best record keepers of the domestics from that era, but still.
In the end, one of the local clone flippers is getting out of Mopars and turning his sights to Chevy's because, "the values are finally coming up enough to make it worthwhile and it's so much easier to recreate a Chev.  You can make an L72 Chevy II and it's virtually impossible to tell it isn't a genuine car".

[bull]

You can make anything "numbers matching" if you really want to.