Best MOPARS to make pro-touring resto-mods?

[joflaig]

I have been leaning toward a 71 Mustang Mach I for about a year now, but decided that you can't really change their appearance without ruining the look IMO. ANYWAY, enough blasphomy, so now I'm thinking for the 2nd car not a big street/strip like I've got going currently, but a mean ass pro-touring presumably for handling purposes based on a smaller, lighter body. Are we talking just Darts and Dusters, or would a Cuda or Challenger fit the bill? I'm open minded on models and years.

I thought this one might be a project for me to actually do a lot of the body (and some mechanical) work myself, learning as I go.

Anyhow, the ultimate goal is to get something with comparable performance to a modern Corvette in terms of handling, but naturally more power . I was thinking it had to match or beat the new zr1, so 650hp w/EFI, 600+ fpt, 5 speed tranny w/OD, 4x discs (6 pistons on the front 2-4 on the back), heavy body stiffening, roll cage, mini-tubs, AND a paint job we just haven't SEEN yet.

Where should I go with this?  First step is picking the best body shell for the job to start on. Another factor is availablity of resto pats. With AMD it's much easier now, but I don't think Darts and Dusters are on their list yet, no? I don't care on this build about #matching and issues like that at all. Essentially, it's to make a brand new machine, as fun on the curves as my Charger is on a straight line.

Thanks for any ideas in advance! Non-MOPAR, I think a '70-71 NOVA would work, especially on cost and availability of parts.

[NYCMille]

I was thinking it had to match or beat the new zr1, so 650hp, 600+ fpt, 5 speed, tranny w/OD, 4x discs (6 pistons on the front 2-4 on the back), heay body stiffening, roll cage, AND a paint job we just haven't SEEn yet.

Dude... don't mean to burst your bubble... but you will NEVER get an old Mopar, regardless of the shape, color or size to do the above. We're currently in the process of re-powering the Daytona to exceed those specs and even by doing that we know we won't best the performance of a ZR1. Believe me... I've done the research and spent the money... it just ain't gonna' happen...

Cool dream though...   

[69bronzeT5]

Well I'm using my Charger for a pro-touring resto-mod project and I will do the same to the Duster one day. A Cuda or Challenger would definitley fit the bill considering they were used in the Trans Am series.

Regarding AMD and Duster panels, they are making them if I'm correct.

[69bronzeT5]

I was thinking it had to match or beat the new zr1, so 650hp, 600+ fpt, 5 speed, tranny w/OD, 4x discs (6 pistons on the front 2-4 on the back), heay body stiffening, roll cage, AND a paint job we just haven't SEEn yet.

Dude... don't mean to burst your bubble... but you will NEVER get an old Mopar, regardless of the shape, color or size to do the above.

Well if it was a straight line race, it would be an easy win. Just strap a good 'ole jet rocket to the back.

[Ghoste]

But if you just want an opinion on what makes the best Mopar Pro Touring car from an appearance standpoint, I like the E-bodies and 71-74 B-bodies.

[joflaig]

I was thinking it had to match or beat the new zr1, so 650hp, 600+ fpt, 5 speed, tranny w/OD, 4x discs (6 pistons on the front 2-4 on the back), heay body stiffening, roll cage, AND a paint job we just haven't SEEn yet.

Dude... don't mean to burst your bubble... but you will NEVER get an old Mopar, regardless of the shape, color or size to do the above. We're currently in the process of re-powering the Daytona to exceed those specs and even by doing that we know we won't best the performance of a ZR1. Believe me... I've done the research and spent the money... it just ain't gonna' happen...

Cool dream though...   

MIKE, please man, burst my bubble, that's why I'm posting...to get a realistic picture! But let's be fair and break the measure of performance down into a number of categories: engine power/performance, braking, various handling characteristics, suspension, etc. If you had an LS9 (or 572) in '71 Nova with the same brakes as a zr1 and other drive train components, and an advanced susupension, I'm sure you could match some of the performance heights a modern corvette reaches, or vice versa in the right old MOPAR worked over with similar modern tech, and a 6.1 Hemi gone wild.

Tell us, in what specific measures will we never be able to match a car like a zr1 on OVERALL perfomance in an old muscle car platform? Weight would seem to be obvious. Plus I can't see us replicating the sophisticated computer traction and suspension controls, even without cost being an object. But I think with modern tech applied, even to an old car you can get a lot closer than before. Just ask XV, right?

[six-tee-nine]

I think Autodynamics 69 Charger proves the fact that a 69 looks awesome in a Pro touring look...
I'm not a E-body fan but the XV Challenger also looks killer, in fact it's the only way i Like challengers.

[joflaig]

But if you just want an opinion on what makes the best Mopar Pro Touring car from an appearance standpoint, I like the E-bodies and 71-74 B-bodies.

I love all those cars, the 71-74 b-bodies are certainly larger than a Dart or Duster. All I'm trying to figure out is which old MOPAR in pro-tour configuration could have the best possible handling. Typically, a smaller and lighter car gives some advantages. Maybe a MOPAR is wrong for me for this project, but I am running through the list of MOPARs first.

[Charger-Bodie]

As long as you are not a really big Guy and dont plan to bring the entire family reunion along, Id go with an A-Body mopar IMO they are a VERY well engineered car ( basiclly like a mini B body) Far better engineering than the e body( Ebody cars look awesome ),but the didnt get the same carefull engineering the mopar is usually known for.

[joflaig]

As long as you are not a really big Guy and dont plan to bring the entire family reunion along, Id go with an A-Body mopar IMO they are a VERY well engineered car ( basiclly like a mini B body) Far better engineering than the e body( Ebody cars look awesome ),but the didnt get the same carefull engineering the mopar is usually known for.

IMO front end of many Duster model years look crappy compared to front end of many other cars of the same type of that era, like a '70-71 Nova, though the rest is ok, and the rear end styling works for me. I think Darts can be a bit plain jane. I never liked the styling on Baracudas. I guess a '71 Cuda or '70-'71 Challenger just beats the A body cars of roughy the same model years in looks, for me at least -- but I've heard before what you say about the quality.

BUT if I had to pick an a-body, it would probably be a '71 Duster or Demon. However, nobody makes brand new metal for these cars, right...not AMD?

This would be a good starting point to get an idea:

http://www.gforcedesignconcepts.com/gallery/DEMON

Front end, grill and headlamps almost just don't cut it though in styling to me.

[ds440]

I was talking to a guy at a SCCA event at Mid-Ohio once who was a race engineer for one of the vintage classes (mostly Mustangs and Camaros).  He was telling me that the suspension geometry along with the wheel base, weight and several other factors was why you don't see a lot of race-ready Mopars.  When I started asking specifics he kinda hedged a little and then basically admitted it was primarily because there wasn't nearly the aftermarket R&D available for Mopars that there is for the Mustang/Camaro crowd.

I think if you have an infinite supply of funds, sure you could probably make something that competes with a ZR1.  Carbon fiber panels, traction control, modern adjustable braking systems, crazy suspension geometry are all doable IF you have the money.  BUT...you could probably end up buying a Ferrari 430 for the half the cost (and that's saying something).

But hey, I'd admire your ambition though!  I still want to be the first dude to lap the Nordschleife in a '68 Charger.


Some knucklehead came up with these concepts not too long ago...

[joflaig]

I was talking to a guy at a SCCA event at Mid-Ohio once who was a race engineer for one of the vintage classes (mostly Mustangs and Camaros).  He was telling me that the suspension geometry along with the wheel base, weight and several other factors was why you don't see a lot of race-ready Mopars.  When I started asking specifics he kinda hedged a little and then basically admitted it was primarily because there wasn't nearly the aftermarket R&D available for Mopars that there is for the Mustang/Camaro crowd.

I think if you have an infinite supply of funds, sure you could probably make something that competes with a ZR1.  Carbon fiber panels, traction control, modern adjustable braking systems, crazy suspension geometry are all doable IF you have the money.  BUT...you could probably end up buying a Ferrari 430 for the half the cost (and that's saying something).

But hey, I'd admire your ambition though!  I still want to be the first dude to lap the Nordschleife in a '68 Charger.


Some knucklehead came up with these concepts not too long ago...

That 71 RR kicks ass!

Yeah, if I had the $ for a Ferrari, I would be driving one. My goal here is not take a 35-40 year old platform with the expectation of matching a zr1 in every aspect, but just to get -- within reason -- as close as possible to many of the performance measures of a modern Corvette, as one example. Isn't this what pro-touring is all about?

And to your point ,is it fair to say XV is truly one of the only new companies out their pushing MOPAR muscle car era tech into advanced places?

[moparstuart]

I was talking to a guy at a SCCA event at Mid-Ohio once who was a race engineer for one of the vintage classes (mostly Mustangs and Camaros).  He was telling me that the suspension geometry along with the wheel base, weight and several other factors was why you don't see a lot of race-ready Mopars.  When I started asking specifics he kinda hedged a little and then basically admitted it was primarily because there wasn't nearly the aftermarket R&D available for Mopars that there is for the Mustang/Camaro crowd.

I think if you have an infinite supply of funds, sure you could probably make something that competes with a ZR1.  Carbon fiber panels, traction control, modern adjustable braking systems, crazy suspension geometry are all doable IF you have the money.  BUT...you could probably end up buying a Ferrari 430 for the half the cost (and that's saying something).

But hey, I'd admire your ambition though!  I still want to be the first dude to lap the Nordschleife in a '68 Charger.


Some knucklehead came up with these concepts not too long ago...

That 71 RR kicks ass!

Yeah, if I had the $ for a Ferrari, I would be driving one. My goal here is not take a 35-40 year old platform with the expectation of matching a zr1 in every aspect, but just to get -- within reason -- as close as possible to many of the performance measures of a modern Corvette, as one example. Isn't this what pro-touring is all about?

And to your point ,is it fair to say XV is truly one of the only new companies out their pushing MOPAR muscle car era tech into advanced places?

I totally agree I think that the best looking 71 b body I have ever seen 

[NYCMille]

Dave... Dude, every time I see one of your renderings I'm blown away.

BTW - ladies and gentleman Dave is the one the people that INSTRUMENTAL in designing "ANGRIER", so a BIG THANKS to him... boyz got SKILLZ! 

[suntech]

I still want to be the first dude to lap the Nordschleife in a '68 Charger.

That would be cool as shit!!!
I live closer....... Just a 4 hour ferryride, and a 12 hour drive, and i am there!!! 

I agree that there are maybe better cars for the pro touring, but no way in hell you find a cooler looking car for it!!!
The Charger is a big car, but it can be "slimmed" down weightwise, to handle better.
Aluminum motor and gearcase, together with a pinion rack/ coilover front suspention will lighten up the nose.
Carbon fibre hood and trunk lid, etc lightens up.
Then do a lot of testing, to dial in suspention, and i think it will be nice handling car!
We can dream about driving in circles around corvettes and ferraris till we turn blue, but i doubt that will happen, but a charger will look good trying !!!

[firefighter3931]

Do a search on "the green brick"  I'm sure it could hang with many modern cars on the roundy track. 



Ron

[69bronzeT5]

Dave... Dude, every time I see one of your renderings I'm blown away.

BTW - ladies and gentleman Dave is the one the people that INSTRUMENTAL in designing "ANGRIER", so a BIG THANKS to him... boyz got SKILLZ! 

I definitely gotta give him a huge thanks. He's designed the exteriors of both of my cars.

[joflaig]

DAVE, I was going to PM you, but might as well lavish the praise publicly. When I sent in my deposit to Muscle Car Restorations for my '69 for next year, I included the rendering you did for me of the direction I wanted to go and they were blown away and very excited. 

I really like that 71 RR/GTX. I think just that rendering alone may actually have settled the whole matter for me. The only thing is I would have two black cars. I wonder what that RR would look like sublime or plum crazy... I'm also curious what it would look like if you add the striped graphics behind the driver/passenger windows.

Thanks man!

[ds440]

Thanks guys.

How's this?  I had already done the Plum Crazy version (it's buried somewhere in the Photoshop Thread) and whipped the Sublime version out pretty quickly.

[joflaig]

The sublime '71 with the stripes behind the window is absolutely awesome! I wouldn't change anything, except maybe experiment with different wheels and tires. That is an amazing looking car! Would I be wrong in saying nobody has anything like it on the road?

My only problem with that body style was under the front grill, but the Camaro spoiler solves the styling issue perfectly!

[Ghoste]

After seeing Daves images and knowing that all out performance in a Pro Tour look is your goal, I have to revise my first opinion.  I think you should give more thought to the 68 Barracuda fastback style.

[joflaig]

After seeing Daves images and knowing that all out performance in a Pro Tour look is your goal, I have to revise my first opinion.  I think you should give more thought to the 68 Barracuda fastback style.

Hmm, yeah I really hate Barracuda styling. Cuda's are another thing. That's just me.

I think Dave has really sold me on the sublime '71 GTX/RR/Satellite. The question there is do I bother trying to get an actual RR or GTX or since the resto-mod will be so extreme would it negate the value of the core car having been an RR or a GTX. In otherwords, do I try and find a nice Satellite body to base this off of. That would be the cheapest option, I think. I do want to keep the stock dash for contrast, with new gauges of course. Did all 3 models have the same dash and/or consoles?

[Ghoste]

Yeah, as I posted earlier my first choices were different but if you want to maximize performance then 1hot68`s suggestion of an A-body leapt to the front of my mind and the 2nd generation Barracudas were the next thing to leap.  I can`t seem to picture a Duster or a Swinger as a Pro Tour car.
But you`ll get no argument from me about the 71 RR really.  Always one of my favorite cars and one I can easily styled the way you are talking about.  Hitting your performance targets will be a little harder but hey, that`s the fun rightÉ

[joflaig]

Yeah, as I posted earlier my first choices were different but if you want to maximize performance then 1hot68`s suggestion of an A-body leapt to the front of my mind and the 2nd generation Barracudas were the next thing to leap.  I can`t seem to picture a Duster or a Swinger as a Pro Tour car.
But you`ll get no argument from me about the 71 RR really.  Always one of my favorite cars and one I can easily styled the way you are talking about.  Hitting your performance targets will be a little harder but hey, that`s the fun rightÉ

In terms of performance I'm not worried about the engine and drivetrain, I know my goals: worked over 6.1 HEMI, 5 speed manual w/OD, massive fricken brakes (6 pistons on the front), power everything, AC. It's more the suspension and handling I have no clue about. I don't know how much custom stuff is out there for this platform. It could get expensive to build custom systems.

[suntech]

It's more the suspension and handling I have no clue about. I don't know how much custom stuff is out there for this platform. It could get expensive to build custom systems.

What about XV Level II front and rear suspention / brakes?

[joflaig]

It's more the suspension and handling I have no clue about. I don't know how much custom stuff is out there for this platform. It could get expensive to build custom systems.

What about XV Level II front and rear suspention / brakes?

Yeah of course, but is adaptable to a '71 RR/GTX/Sat.? I don't know. Does Alterkation even make anything for that? I know, I'm not on the best board for advice here. The guys on moparts have offered some help too.

[suntech]

Yeah of course, but is adaptable to a '71 RR/GTX/Sat.?

No need to change car............ The one you have will be great with the drivetrain you mentioned, and that suspention!!

[joflaig]

Yeah of course, but is adaptable to a '71 RR/GTX/Sat.?

No need to change car............ The one you have will be great with the drivetrain you mentioned, and that suspention!!

Not clear, are you saying that it could work on a '71 RR/GTX/Sat.?

[suntech]

Not sure about that, but it will work on your Charger

[Mike DC]

To the thread's original question --

I don't think it even matters about the Mopar, half as much as what you're willing & able to do to it. 

It's like NASCARs.  The farther advanced they got, the less it mattered which original factory car it was supposed to be.  (At least other than the aero issues.)  Because by the time the smoke cleared at the fabrication shop, it was gonna be the same tube-framed race car regardless of which outer skin was on it.


Just look at the current Pro-Touring world.  Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Plymouths, Pontiacs . . .  all wearing the same C5 cast aluminum control arms and aftermarket Ford 9" rear axles.  (Or with IRS cars it's all the same Corvette-based Dana 44 differential mounted in the chassis.)   

Even with mere resto-modded street cruiser Mopars, we're already seeing the beginnings of a move towards GM-based 4L60E auto tranny retrofits.  This setup is making as much sense as any amount of monkeying with Torqueflites.

----------------------------------


Wanna have fun with a street car? 

I say forget about chasing a C5 or C6's specific stopwatch numbers . . . what's actually the most FUN TO DRIVE way to build a sports car?  It's not always the same question as "What's the fastest way?" 



Example:  Is 5 or 6 gears really more fun to drive than a tranny with only 4 gears (but the same ultimate spread from 1st-to-4th as the 5 or 6 speeds)? 

I question the assumption than more gears always makes it more fun.  If the motor has enough wide & flat powerband not to get bogged down between shifts (which is a big IF, because it generally means some ultimate power compromises to do this), then I'll take the 3-4 gears over 5-6 gears. 

[joflaig]

 

[suntech]

I say forget about chasing a C5 or C6's specific stopwatch numbers . . . what's actually the most FUN TO DRIVE

And i think a badass pro touring Charger will be a lot of fun to drive!!! 

[CFMopar]

Go the route of the green brick like ron said

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/one-lap-pix.html

The car kicked ass in the 2002 one lap of America race. And they kept it simple...

Big breaks
SS springs de arched
Beefy torsion bars
Sub frame connectors
efi stroked small block

The car got 2nd place in its class
http://www.onelapofamerica.com/history/2002/results/showResults.shtml?y=2002&res=VINTAMER

And also tied a normal viper for 14th overall out of 87 cars.
http://www.onelapofamerica.com/history/2002/results/showResults.shtml?y=2002&res=OVL_CUM

The xv stuff is nice. But IMO its to much. The cost vs what you gain ratio isn't worth it. I'd use some of their stiffening stuff but that's it. When I do my 71 up its gonna be the green brick route.

If you're serious get this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Mopar-Performance-Parts-Chassis/dp/B000BTHQXO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229130275&sr=8-3
It's a gold mine of info.

[joflaig]

Go the route of the green brick like ron said

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/one-lap-pix.html

The car kicked ass in the 2002 one lap of America race. And they kept it simple...

Big breaks
SS springs de arched
Beefy torsion bars
Sub frame connectors
efi stroked small block

The car got 2nd place in its class
http://www.onelapofamerica.com/history/2002/results/showResults.shtml?y=2002&res=VINTAMER

And also tied a normal viper for 14th overall out of 87 cars.
http://www.onelapofamerica.com/history/2002/results/showResults.shtml?y=2002&res=OVL_CUM

The xv stuff is nice. But IMO its to much. The cost vs what you gain ratio isn't worth it. I'd use some of their stiffening stuff but that's it. When I do my 71 up its gonna be the green brick route.

If you're serious get this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Mopar-Performance-Parts-Chassis/dp/B000BTHQXO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229130275&sr=8-3
It's a gold mine of info.

That' good advice. I've been hitting up the folks on moparts and they are begging me to go with a Sport Satellitte and not wreck an RR or GTX.  Sats are so affordable!

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4875634&page=0&vc=1

[CFMopar]

I'd do that to if I were you. Why spend more if you're gonna chop it up....  Save your money and get the satalite... You can clone a road runner anyways. Plus the money you save = more go fast parts

[joflaig]

I'd do that to if I were you. Why spend more if you're gonna chop it up....  Save your money and get the satalite... You can clone a road runner anyways. Plus the money you save = more go fast parts

Yeah, this is not going to end up cheap the way I envision it, but unlike the last car I want to start off on the right foot at the get go this time and learn how to do something for myself along the way too. Maybe this summer I will make the effort of finding a clean body.

[Steve P.]

A few years ago I saw what I must consider, the best looking 71' GTX in the World. This car was so pretty it made me want to cry. It was mirror black and everything shaved except the chromed GTX badges. All the bright work was mirror black as well.. The windows were tinted limo black. The exhaust was even black.   Is sat pro-tour low and had the meanest looks I have ever seen.... 

Whenever anyone says PRO-TOUR I think of that nasty monster....

[CFMopar]

I'd do that to if I were you. Why spend more if you're gonna chop it up....  Save your money and get the satalite... You can clone a road runner anyways. Plus the money you save = more go fast parts

Yeah, this is not going to end up cheap the way I envision it, but unlike the last car I want to start off on the right foot at the get go this time and learn how to do something for myself along the way too. Maybe this summer I will make the effort of finding a clean body.

Thats the first step!

[NorwayCharger]

This one is nice http://www.lateral-g.net/members/paglialunga/

And http://www.lateral-g.net/members/autodynamics/

And http://www.lateral-g.net/members/chiappetti/

And if you realy want to go all the way http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36864 

[WingCharger]

The Daytona Clone I build one day is going to be a pro-touring car. I have found the pro touring cars the coolest of all of them!! And, because I only plan on owning one MoPar (The Daytona) I can dump all my money into it...that is if I ever get a freaki'n Charger.


5.7L Hemi Power
T56 Viper 6-Speed
Alter-k-ation Front Suspension
Big Brakes
Big Tires
etc..

[aifilaw]

A lot of people are talking about making whatever you want into whatever you want.
Purely from a weight and balance ratio, it sounds to me like you want to select a car that you don't have to completely re-engineer to attempt a near 50/50/50/50 ratio on, and can stand to have the handling mods done to the front and rear.
sways, coils, front LCA's, rear LCA's, link the frame, et cetera, maybe even independent rear.
The car that comes the closest is the cuda or challenger. The duster is far too disproportional to start with, the charger is heavier or it would make a good candidate. With a lot of fiberglass adjustment, slight engine movement and mods done to a cuda or challenger I think you will get the closest out of all of them to your goal.

[joflaig]

This one is nice http://www.lateral-g.net/members/paglialunga/

And http://www.lateral-g.net/members/autodynamics/

And http://www.lateral-g.net/members/chiappetti/

And if you realy want to go all the way http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36864 

That RR is great and really helps, I'm saving all the info and pics. Thanks!

This Challenger, half way down the page, would be if money were no object, good god:

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?s=92e0b58c46ac596e37d3c2eacf7ab4a4&t=36864&page=11

[joflaig]

A lot of people are talking about making whatever you want into whatever you want.
Purely from a weight and balance ratio, it sounds to me like you want to select a car that you don't have to completely re-engineer to attempt a near 50/50/50/50 ratio on, and can stand to have the handling mods done to the front and rear.
sways, coils, front LCA's, rear LCA's, link the frame, et cetera, maybe even independent rear.
The car that comes the closest is the cuda or challenger. The duster is far too disproportional to start with, the charger is heavier or it would make a good candidate. With a lot of fiberglass adjustment, slight engine movement and mods done to a cuda or challenger I think you will get the closest out of all of them to your goal.

You have a good point, which is why these cars were used the SCCA Trans Am series, I suppose.

[WingCharger]

You know what would be really cool and extremely unique?
A PRO-TOURING F BODY!!!

They make alterkations for them, and their rear suspension isnt that far off from the classics!! Think, it would be the only one of its kind!!

[joflaig]

You know what would be really cool and extremely unique?
A PRO-TOURING F BODY!!!

They make alterkations for them, and their rear suspension isnt that far off from the classics!! Think, it would be the only one of its kind!!

You mean these Things? 

[joflaig]

BTW XV's Level II front AND rear suspension packages are offered for '71 RR/GTX/Satellites so I guess I got that question answered! 

[WingCharger]

BTW XV's Level II front AND rear suspension packages are offered for '71 RR/GTX/Satellites so I guess I got that question answered! 

That will be really cool!!!

[Finn]

I like the RR idea, challenger and chargers have been done before but Ive yet to see a pro-touring RR.

[joflaig]

I like the RR idea, challenger and chargers have been done before but Ive yet to see a pro-touring RR.

They have been done, but I bet not too many and not many in the countless iterations we've seen of challengers, for instance.

Look at this:

http://www.lateral-g.net/members/paglialunga/

Or the pic.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Tell us, in what specific measures will we never be able to match a car like a zr1 on OVERALL perfomance in an old muscle car platform? Weight would seem to be obvious. Plus I can't see us replicating the sophisticated computer traction and suspension controls, even without cost being an object. But I think with modern tech applied, even to an old car you can get a lot closer than before. Just ask XV, right?



Well - if money was not an object then the traction control and ABS...   things like that CAN be done - you just wouldnt want to see the bill for them...    Get a new Magnum platform and graft on a body shell onto it...      it can be done...   I'm assisting a friend of mine doing his right now   

It will utilize EVERY stock system including ABS, traction, cruise, engine, trans...    everything... 

[69bronzeT5]

I really like the Roadrunner/GTX idea. There are a lot of Challengers out there that have been made into pro-tourers because of their amazing looks. A GTX would definitley be different considering most pro-touring cars you see are 67-69 Camaros. If money is no problem, then a completely badass, functional and race ready Mopar can be build and compete with great results but if money is an issue, it could be a problem.

[joflaig]

I really like the Roadrunner/GTX idea. There are a lot of Challengers out there that have been made into pro-tourers because of their amazing looks. A GTX would definitley be different considering most pro-touring cars you see are 67-69 Camaros. If money is no problem, then a completely badass, functional and race ready Mopar can be build and compete with great results but if money is an issue, it could be a problem.

I can see this easily costing at least 75k (maybe more) depending on how much work I do myself. I'm real limited on that score, probably just to the interior...but who knows. If the body I find is just a cheap Satellite in great shape I can sure save a ton on metal work.

[Mike DC]

A lot depends. 

The engine, the drivetrain, suspension, the paintwork, the interior . . .  a lot of these systems can just as easily eat $5k or $15k depending on how you go about it.


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As a whole, I'd vote to keep at least some attention on simplicity and availability.  A daily driver is supposed to serve YOU, not be something for you to be serving all the time.  And 90% of the trouble & rarity with parts is usually acquired to get the last 10% of the performance.  Is it really worth it? 

That's what a lot of pro car builders seem to drift towards over time.  After they've built all kinds of exotic things, this is the next frontier.  They wanna build something that retains 3/4ths of that performance but is not too difficult to live with. 

It's no fun being on the side of the road when you're 4 states away from home on a trip, and then discovering that a replacement windshield glass or exhaust hanger will have to be airlifted from a Tibetian monastery (and will cost more than the trip itself once you've paid some local shop to install it).

[joflaig]

A lot depends. 

The engine, the drivetrain, suspension, the paintwork, the interior . . .  a lot of these systems can just as easily eat $5k or $15k depending on how you go about it.


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As a whole, I'd vote to keep at least some attention on simplicity and availability.  A daily driver is supposed to serve YOU, not be something for you to be serving all the time.  And 90% of the trouble & rarity with parts is usually acquired to get the last 10% of the performance.  Is it really worth it? 

That's what a lot of pro car builders seem to drift towards over time.  After they've built all kinds of exotic things, this is the next frontier.  They wanna build something that retains 3/4ths of that performance but is not too difficult to live with. 

It's no fun being on the side of the road when you're 4 states away from home on a trip, and then discovering that a replacement windshield glass or exhaust hanger will have to be airlifted from a Tibetian monastery (and will cost more than the trip itself once you've paid some local shop to install it).

I just want another mopar to compliment the evolving street/strip car I have now. One for straight lines and a second for curves. I know how fast you can break the six figure mark on these builds once you start going all the way -- especially if you ain't the one doing all the labor.

[CFMopar]

Id say use a dart.. But thats me