Global Warming: Man made carbon emmisions or natural cycle?

[71EV2RT]

The media is part to blame for this crap (global warming). A few years back, you were considered some kind of loony if you believed that there was such a thing as manmade global warming, It was just something that the tree huggers believed in. But thanks to Al Gore and his agenda with the media and hollywood jumping on the bandwagon, if you don't believe in it now, you are some kind of idiot. You can't call it a scam and if you call it a conspiracy you just sound like a nut bar.

Kinda funny how the media just kept reporting on it more and more, then you saw actors and politicians slowly jump on the wagon and preach to everybody else about it. Democrats first, then sure enough the Republicans, one by one. These are people that ride in limos, fly in private jets and live in huge mansions, and what the hell do they know about it any more than the average Joe?

GM built a hybrid car back in the 60's. It was powered by an electric motor that was fed by regular type car batteries. The batteries were constantly recharged by a external combustion Stirling motor that was mounted in the trunk. Very quiet and clean burning vehicle that could be driven at 55mph. They developed this "technology" back in the 60's, but these cars were never produced. Talk about "conspiracies", how about the US Govt., big oil, UAW and the big three? GM is all hot on the Hybrid vehicles now, but it took Toyota over 30 years to "steal" their hybrid idea that was hatched in the 60's, and that wasn't enough. It took $4.00 a gallon gas to get the big three to take an honest look at the hybrid idea, and what can they give us on short notice? The hybrid Tahoe? Hybrid Escalade??? They get what, 20mpg?

My '81 Honda Civic got 42mpg. Dodge made a Dart Lite in the mid 70's that got 36mpg hwy!! With a slant 6!! They stuck the GM hybrid car from the 60's in the closet and locked the door, and forgot about it. Talk about a conspiracy.

[dodgecharger-fan]

...If a single piece of evidence ever comes out that contradicts the scientific theory that global warming is caused by the actions of the human race, and there is proof that someone knew about it and chose to ignore it in order to perpetuate their own agenda, we'll have a full blown let's-get-a-committee-on-this scandal on our hands (or it'll be covered up, but that doesn't make it any less of scam).

I don't doubt for a second that someone has already done such a thing. They just haven't been caught (or it's been covered up).

Whether the reality of what causes (or accelerates) global warming is ever absolutely defined is immaterial. Someone out there saw an opportunity to make money and has cherry-picked their arguments ever since. I don't doubt that they influenced others to back their arguments - by whatever means.

Who? I don't know. But in a world where someone is openly greedy and stupid enough to speak about illegal activities when they know they are being recorded, I don't doubt for a second that someone else is capable of manipulating an argument to suit their goals.
Certainly, I have no proof but I'll bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would disagree with my statement or find anyone who doesn't think that someone out there is capable of such greed.

As soon as that one person is found out, we'll go in to full scandal mode. Period.
Heck, I'm surprised it hasn't already happened. The energy bill for Al Gore's house was enough in my opinion.
I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on the whole carbon credits market thing. That's nothing but money trading hands to pay off a protection racket. "You pay. You stay in business. You don't pay. You're going to hurt." If it were run by anyone but government (or without their sanctioning), it would be illegal.
...

Excuse me, be back in a bit, must get my tin-foil hat.

Ok, back, now THEY won't be able to get my brain waves, so I'm safe to talk.

Anyway, this whole conspiracy theory nonsense is just that: nonsense.  So a cabal of evil scientists are strong-arming this massive section of the scientific community into lying so they can make more money by researching!  Brilliant!  Even if you ignore the fact that if it were GREED motivating them, corporate sponsors would have basically blank checks for them if they proved the OPPOSITE, the rest of this idea is ridiculous enough on its own.

Mike's right, they definitely could be wrong.  But lying?  Not a chance, not on this scale.  If you honestly buy into the large-scale conspiracy/cover-up idea, you may want to consult a doctor about your paranoid delusional tendancies.

But what's the difference?  Simple.  If you believe the delusional conspiracy crap, then these people are your enemies.  Read some of the posts in this thread, they clearly see the gw-believing scientific community as their enemies.  However, if you believe they're simply researchers trying to further human knowlege, and if you understand the nature of the scientific method and research, then you'll know that if it's wrong, the truth will be discovered - but for right now, they do honestly believe that global warming is real, and they do honestly have solid scientific support for this belief

Ummmm Nope. I never said I believed in a conspiracy.  I'm not sure I even described a conspiracy. Please re-read my post..

I said all it is going to take is for one person to be caught in a lie/omission/illegal act and the whole house of cards is going to fall. All it takes is one person in a position to manipulate, hide or influence facts/figures/others. If they are convincing enough, people will fall in line - unknowingly. It doesn't have to be on the scale that you are thinking about. All it's going to take is one person that is at or near the core of one side of the argument to be caught in a lie and it's scandal time. EVEN IF IT DOESN'T PROVE OR DISPROVE MAN'S ROLE IN GLOBAL WARMING. It's not about who's right anymore. It's about who gets far enough without getting caught. Heck, even if someone of impeccable credibility screws up, it'll start the cards falling. My post was about greed and scandal.

As was said earlier, it's not a matter of a bunch of scientists wilfully deceiving the public. My line of thought is that, at some point, there was someone that saw an opportunity to start this whole ball of crap rolling - or kick the ball in another direction - and it suited their own interests to do so.

It doesn't have to be a scientist either. So, stop defending them because I'm not even pointing at them specifically.

By the way, I never made a statement as to whether or not global warming is a reality. I merely put forth my opinion that someone is using what may very well be a natural phenomenon as a means to further their own agenda - that agenda may be to reduce pollution and energy consumption, which is a pretty good agenda. I just feel that trying to leverage a bunch of junk science (no matter what side of the argument you are on) to further that agenda is B.S.

It may very well be a natural phenomenon because in your own words, "it is a contentious scientific theory that is being tested."
To follow scientific method, in the sense that a theory can only be disproved (yes, that's the correct word in case any grammar police are reading), then are you saying that all the scientists that are proponents have disproved that global warming is NOT a natural phenomenon? And how do you explain the scientists that say they have proof that global warming is a man-made phenomenon? I see, it's up to the opponents to disprove it because that's how scientific theory works. I don't know. that seems to be shaky ground upon which to be arguing - perhaps for both sides of the argument.

In short, I'm not even suggesting that the scientists are scam artists or that the science itself is a scam. I'm saying that at some point in time, someone serves their own agenda at the cost of others. In this line of thinking, the scientists are no the scam artists, they are being scammed.

I suppose to be fair, I could have included "..If a single piece of evidence ever comes out that contradicts the scientific theory that global warming is just a natural phenomenon, and there is proof that someone knew about it and chose to ignore it in order to perpetuate their own agenda, we'll have a full blown let's-get-a-committee-on-this scandal on our hands (or it'll be covered up, but that doesn't make it any less of scam)."

But I thought the idea that it was all about greed and scandal and that it works both ways was clear, but I guess not to someone too quick to pigeon hole me in to the conspiracy theory camp.

To simplify things: I believe that someone, somewhere did something, or will do something to screw up the entire body of research because they were greedy and their actions will call all of their arguments in to question. I believe that it will happen regardless of which side of the argument that that person makes camp. I faith in the people behind all this that this will happen. After all, we're talking about politicians when all is said and done.

[dodgecharger-fan]

The media is part to blame for this crap (global warming). A few years back, you were considered some kind of loony if you believed that there was such a thing as manmade global warming, It was just something that the tree huggers believed in. But thanks to Al Gore and his agenda with the media and hollywood jumping on the bandwagon, if you don't believe in it now, you are some kind of idiot. You can't call it a scam and if you call it a conspiracy you just sound like a nut bar.

Kinda funny how the media just kept reporting on it more and more, then you saw actors and politicians slowly jump on the wagon and preach to everybody else about it. Democrats first, then sure enough the Republicans, one by one. These are people that ride in limos, fly in private jets and live in huge mansions, and what the hell do they know about it any more than the average Joe?

It's not completely their fault. They just believe in what they've been told or not told - and that's built up from what's been spun and spun and spun by all who have picked it up as a flag to wave. That can be said for both sides, but the media being the media and out to get the sensational story out first tend to bring people to a froth pretty easily.

Wasn't there a post here a while back - or maybe it was in that movie in response Al Gore's.. anyway, one of the lead scientists that researched the theory of man made global warming said that things were taken out of context, or reports were misunderstood, or whatever and he actually is speaking out against the idea that global warming is man made?

[defiance]

...If a single piece of evidence ever comes out that contradicts the scientific theory that global warming is caused by the actions of the human race, and there is proof that someone knew about it and chose to ignore it in order to perpetuate their own agenda, we'll have a full blown let's-get-a-committee-on-this scandal on our hands (or it'll be covered up, but that doesn't make it any less of scam).

I don't doubt for a second that someone has already done such a thing. They just haven't been caught (or it's been covered up).

Whether the reality of what causes (or accelerates) global warming is ever absolutely defined is immaterial. Someone out there saw an opportunity to make money and has cherry-picked their arguments ever since. I don't doubt that they influenced others to back their arguments - by whatever means.

Who? I don't know. But in a world where someone is openly greedy and stupid enough to speak about illegal activities when they know they are being recorded, I don't doubt for a second that someone else is capable of manipulating an argument to suit their goals.
Certainly, I have no proof but I'll bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would disagree with my statement or find anyone who doesn't think that someone out there is capable of such greed.

As soon as that one person is found out, we'll go in to full scandal mode. Period.
Heck, I'm surprised it hasn't already happened. The energy bill for Al Gore's house was enough in my opinion.
I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on the whole carbon credits market thing. That's nothing but money trading hands to pay off a protection racket. "You pay. You stay in business. You don't pay. You're going to hurt." If it were run by anyone but government (or without their sanctioning), it would be illegal.
...

Excuse me, be back in a bit, must get my tin-foil hat.

Ok, back, now THEY won't be able to get my brain waves, so I'm safe to talk.

Anyway, this whole conspiracy theory nonsense is just that: nonsense.  So a cabal of evil scientists are strong-arming this massive section of the scientific community into lying so they can make more money by researching!  Brilliant!  Even if you ignore the fact that if it were GREED motivating them, corporate sponsors would have basically blank checks for them if they proved the OPPOSITE, the rest of this idea is ridiculous enough on its own.

Mike's right, they definitely could be wrong.  But lying?  Not a chance, not on this scale.  If you honestly buy into the large-scale conspiracy/cover-up idea, you may want to consult a doctor about your paranoid delusional tendancies.

But what's the difference?  Simple.  If you believe the delusional conspiracy crap, then these people are your enemies.  Read some of the posts in this thread, they clearly see the gw-believing scientific community as their enemies.  However, if you believe they're simply researchers trying to further human knowlege, and if you understand the nature of the scientific method and research, then you'll know that if it's wrong, the truth will be discovered - but for right now, they do honestly believe that global warming is real, and they do honestly have solid scientific support for this belief

Ummmm Nope. I never said I believed in a conspiracy.  I'm not sure I even described a conspiracy. Please re-read my post..

I said all it is going to take is for one person to be caught in a lie/omission/illegal act and the whole house of cards is going to fall. All it takes is one person in a position to manipulate, hide or influence facts/figures/others. If they are convincing enough, people will fall in line - unknowingly. It doesn't have to be on the scale that you are thinking about. All it's going to take is one person that is at or near the core of one side of the argument to be caught in a lie and it's scandal time. EVEN IF IT DOESN'T PROVE OR DISPROVE MAN'S ROLE IN GLOBAL WARMING. It's not about who's right anymore. It's about who gets far enough without getting caught. Heck, even if someone of impeccable credibility screws up, it'll start the cards falling. My post was about greed and scandal.

As was said earlier, it's not a matter of a bunch of scientists wilfully deceiving the public. My line of thought is that, at some point, there was someone that saw an opportunity to start this whole ball of crap rolling - or kick the ball in another direction - and it suited their own interests to do so.

It doesn't have to be a scientist either. So, stop defending them because I'm not even pointing at them specifically.

By the way, I never made a statement as to whether or not global warming is a reality. I merely put forth my opinion that someone is using what may very well be a natural phenomenon as a means to further their own agenda - that agenda may be to reduce pollution and energy consumption, which is a pretty good agenda. I just feel that trying to leverage a bunch of junk science (no matter what side of the argument you are on) to further that agenda is B.S.

It may very well be a natural phenomenon because in your own words, "it is a contentious scientific theory that is being tested."
To follow scientific method, in the sense that a theory can only be disproved (yes, that's the correct word in case any grammar police are reading), then are you saying that all the scientists that are proponents have disproved that global warming is NOT a natural phenomenon? And how do you explain the scientists that say they have proof that global warming is a man-made phenomenon? I see, it's up to the opponents to disprove it because that's how scientific theory works. I don't know. that seems to be shaky ground upon which to be arguing - perhaps for both sides of the argument.

In short, I'm not even suggesting that the scientists are scam artists or that the science itself is a scam. I'm saying that at some point in time, someone serves their own agenda at the cost of others. In this line of thinking, the scientists are no the scam artists, they are being scammed.

I suppose to be fair, I could have included "..If a single piece of evidence ever comes out that contradicts the scientific theory that global warming is just a natural phenomenon, and there is proof that someone knew about it and chose to ignore it in order to perpetuate their own agenda, we'll have a full blown let's-get-a-committee-on-this scandal on our hands (or it'll be covered up, but that doesn't make it any less of scam)."

But I thought the idea that it was all about greed and scandal and that it works both ways was clear, but I guess not to someone too quick to pigeon hole me in to the conspiracy theory camp.

To simplify things: I believe that someone, somewhere did something, or will do something to screw up the entire body of research because they were greedy and their actions will call all of their arguments in to question. I believe that it will happen regardless of which side of the argument that that person makes camp. I faith in the people behind all this that this will happen. After all, we're talking about politicians when all is said and done.

You repeatedly refer to "covering up" opposing evidence.  Given the amount of prestige and money that would come to a group who could succeed in disproving global warming or disproving the link with carbon production or other human actions, they have a HUGE incentive to publish.  Therefore, it would take an extremely pervasive conspiracy to manage any such cover-up.  Claiming that it would be covered up is, by its nature, conspiracy theory.

I was just confused, apparently; I thought your description of your belief in a conspiracy theory meant that you believed in a conspiracy theory.

Either way, if it doesn't apply to you, ignore it.  A LOT of people honestly do believe that there is a Global Warming "conspiracy", and the post was targeted at them.

[dodgecharger-fan]

Fair enough.

I find that I can put forth an idea for the sake of an argument without believing in it. It's sparks discussion and present alternative theories.
That's all I really tried to do. I did purposely use the words "I think" and my opinion" so as to distinguish from facts. I could have better phrased things using words like "it is possible that..." or "it can be said that..."

[pettyfan43]

Man Made GLOBAL WARMING is a farce, blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah

I won't claim global warming is real.  You, however, claim to know as fact that it is not.  I'm interested in your degrees and years of experience working with one of the most complex systems known to man (the climate) which would qualify you to make that judgement?  Oh, you don't have any?  Huh.  Ok, then I'm back where I started, trying to filter through the BS to figure out who IS most qualified and listen to them. 

A few points that keep getting made that I must argue with, though.

- "It's arrogant to think MAN could make that kind of impact!"  Bull.  We have built the destructive capabilities to shatter continents in hours with our nuclear arsenal.  Changing the temp a few degrees over a period of decades is certainly not unreasonable. 

- "People make money off global warming, so they're just lying to you"  Bull.  If you honestly believe that such a large group of such well respected scientists would willfully deceive the world's population at large, you're an idiot.  Period.  Are there some liars out there?  Sure.  Just like there are in the automotive world.  But just like in the automotive world, the general community dismisses the "air intake turbines" and such idiocy REGARDLESS of how much money could be made if they, as a whole, started lying about performance impacts, and generally embraces learning that truly improves performance.  Hell, the competitive nature of research pretty well ensures complete bunk will be torn to pieces at first publication.  Does that mean mistakes don't happen?  No, but to gain any form of widespread acceptance, it must be based on sound theory and reasonable science.  If it's later found to be incorrect, fine.

So again, I don't know if global warming is real.  I'm not qualified in the slightest.  A lot of people who are qualified are saying it's true.  Now it looks like a lot of qualified people are saying it's not.  This tells me that BOTH SIDES have reasonable, scientific basis for their conclusions.  Unfortunately the popular discussion seems more focused on spouting political pundit talking points than uncovering the truth either way.

Thing is, HISTORY SHOWS that it has been hotter overall in the past than it is RIGHT NOW, This is fact and not made up.  Oh and the whole planet was MORE productive FOR IT!!!

The mean average temp of the planet has been in a steady slight decline for about ten years now.  There are thousands of scientists who believe that the whole "Man Made Global Warming" thing is crap and to be honest with the GOVERNMENT trying to tax any thing that MAYBE part of the THEORY that IS man made global warming, OOOPPS Sorry CLIMATE CHANGE (the new name for it) I have to believe that the whole thing is about money and power.

BTW if this global warming is man made, why are the temps dovetailling with EARTH on MARS? YES there are Satellites that measure BOTH planet's temperature fluctuations, and percentage-wise and time-wise, Mars and Earth BOTH experience highs and lows at the same time (MAN that Rover gives off the CO2 don't it!?!?!?!?) and BOTH do it in conjunction with sunspot activity and the lack thereof.

If algore believes in the whole global warming scam, why did he build a house, just north of Nashville, that uses MORE electricity in a MONTH than a typical 3 Bedroom house uses in a YEAR??

If we are having MAN MADE global WARMING, why is this country having the coldest and wettest FALL it has had in over 15 years, Remember it isn't even officially winter yet, remember this past WEEK??

The Global Warming FARCE is simply a temperature cycle that the planet has ALWAYS GONE Through. AND CO2 is NOT a poisonous gas, it is what you EXHALE every time you BREATHE. The planet has much more vegetation than it had 30 years ago and the hottest year on record is 1934 (Dust bowl anyone???).  OF COURSE the climate changes, they are called WEATHER PATTERNS and they have always been here. They are related to that big yellow thermonuclear reactor you see during the daylight hours.

"You claim to know as fact that it is not"  I NEVER said I know for a fact, EVER!  SHOW ME where I said that!

It is called common sense, if someone takes a careful look at history, rather than to go on alarmist theories that are designed to make some people rich, you can see temperature cycles that are documented in history.

Apparently common sense has taken leave from people, and simple science and history are being left in the dust, due to a THEORY that has NOT been proven, by a bunch of people who really are making a LOT of money from fear mongering. Do you know what algore makes for ONE speaking appearance??  100 GRAND, and at that he will allow NO ONE to ask questions about this, he flies on a PRIVATE JET (Nothing like contributing to his own "Problem"). He does buy his "carbon credits" (I want an idiot credit for having to hear his BS for so long) but he buys them from a company that he FOUNDED, CHAIRS and is CEO of!! Tell me again how he isn't making money from this!  And he is JUST the tip of the ICEBERG (no pun intended)

Ya know my opinion matters JUST AS MUCH AS YOURS, even if we disagree, why don't YOU SHOW ME some real PROVABLE evidence of MAN MADE global warming since you seem to be hung up on OTHER people providing YOU with their credentials. 


It is still an UNPROVEN THEORY for a reason.

[defiance]

It is still an UNPROVEN THEORY for a reason.

That's right:  It's called the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.  By the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, the ENTIRE body of known science is made of of THEORIES.  Nothing can be proven, only disproven.  Gravity?  Theory.  Light?  Theory.    That is the ONE thing about the entire opposition that just completely gets under my skin: you want to argue about science, but hinge your argument on this mantra that it's a theory - unfortunately, your complete ignorance of the scientific method discredits your argument. 

Again, gw may be bunk - but I certainly won't be swayed by someone who doesn't even understand the heart of the scientific method.

[pettyfan43]

Why is it so hard for you to deal with the fact that someone may actually have a different opinion than you do? I just believe that HISTORY and common sense make MORE sense to me than anything coming from these people, because they can't even get together and stay on one path.

The things that are blamed for causing this are as varied as the number of people involved in it to begin with. These people blame EVERY weather anomaly on Global Warming/Climate Change. That is simply (IMHO) fear mongering. 

If someone has an opinion different from you, you act like they should be ashamed of what they believe. You throw accusatory barbs, wanting to know how everyone else has studied and all this garbage.

The last thing I am gonna say about it is that maybe instead of jumping on me or anyone else because we may feel different about this particular issue than you, you might look at the issue from another perspective.

Why don't YOU explain this SCIENTIFIC METHOD to us?

I don't think I will be swayed by someone intent on throwing common sense out the window to believe in a crackpot theory.

OH if GRAVITY is only a theory, try jumping off a garage roof, you'll have proof that it exists.

[defiance]

Why is it so hard for you to deal with the fact that someone may actually have a different opinion than you do? I just believe that HISTORY and common sense make MORE sense to me than anything coming from these people, because they can't even get together and stay on one path.

The things that are blamed for causing this are as varied as the number of people involved in it to begin with. These people blame EVERY weather anomaly on Global Warming/Climate Change. That is simply (IMHO) fear mongering. 

If someone has an opinion different from you, you act like they should be ashamed of what they believe. You throw accusatory barbs, wanting to know how everyone else has studied and all this garbage.

The last thing I am gonna say about it is that maybe instead of jumping on me or anyone else because we may feel different about this particular issue than you, you might look at the issue from another perspective.

Why don't YOU explain this SCIENTIFIC METHOD to us?

I don't think I will be swayed by someone intent on throwing common sense out the window to believe in a crackpot theory.

OH if GRAVITY is only a theory, try jumping off a garage roof, you'll have proof that it exists.

Oh, actually, I have no problem with reasoned disagreement, it's welcome, and in fact necessary for the furtherance of the understanding of the world around us.  All I request is that it be tempered with reason instead of the lame-witted recital of talking points. 

Your challenge of gravity as a theory serves only to illustrate my point: I certainly will NOT be jumping off any buildings, because the theory of gravity has withstood centuries of efforts to disprove it. 

As for educating you on the nature of scientific method, that would be inappropriate: I claim no level of expertise: only basic familiarity.  Consult any rudimentary science textbook, google, or even wikipedia (but only as a starting point, check references).  There's PLENTY of information.  All I ask is that you cease to claim your own ideas as scientific fact until you at least understand the foundation of the scientific method.  If you truly understood the scientific method, you'd understand why attacking a theory simply because it is a theory is idiotic.  Instead, you choose to let ignorance guide your nonsensical rantings.

[pettyfan43]

Why is it so hard for you to deal with the fact that someone may actually have a different opinion than you do? I just believe that HISTORY and common sense make MORE sense to me than anything coming from these people, because they can't even get together and stay on one path.

The things that are blamed for causing this are as varied as the number of people involved in it to begin with. These people blame EVERY weather anomaly on Global Warming/Climate Change. That is simply (IMHO) fear mongering. 

If someone has an opinion different from you, you act like they should be ashamed of what they believe. You throw accusatory barbs, wanting to know how everyone else has studied and all this garbage.

The last thing I am gonna say about it is that maybe instead of jumping on me or anyone else because we may feel different about this particular issue than you, you might look at the issue from another perspective.

Why don't YOU explain this SCIENTIFIC METHOD to us?

I don't think I will be swayed by someone intent on throwing common sense out the window to believe in a crackpot theory.

OH if GRAVITY is only a theory, try jumping off a garage roof, you'll have proof that it exists.

Oh, actually, I have no problem with reasoned disagreement, it's welcome, and in fact necessary for the furtherance of the understanding of the world around us.  All I request is that it be tempered with reason instead of the lame-witted recital of talking points. 

Your challenge of gravity as a theory serves only to illustrate my point: I certainly will NOT be jumping off any buildings, because the theory of gravity has withstood centuries of efforts to disprove it. 

As for educating you on the nature of scientific method, that would be inappropriate: I claim no level of expertise: only basic familiarity.  Consult any rudimentary science textbook, google, or even wikipedia (but only as a starting point, check references).  There's PLENTY of information.  All I ask is that you cease to claim your own ideas as scientific fact until you at least understand the foundation of the scientific method.  If you truly understood the scientific method, you'd understand why attacking a theory simply because it is a theory is idiotic.  Instead, you choose to let ignorance guide your nonsensical rantings.

Ya know what? Maybe you should stop attempting to talk down to people. What I posted is common sense and the basic facts I posted are proven by history.

Instead of being a know it all, why don't you do a little research on the topics I posted? You arrogance is absolutely ridiculous and all you are able to argue is that everyone else's opinion is idiotic.

I'm done with this stupid argument with someone who REFUSES to see anyone's opinion besides his own.

I keep forgetting how silly it is to argue with someone who knows everything, because they refuse to use COMMON SENSE. 

[defiance]

Why is it so hard for you to deal with the fact that someone may actually have a different opinion than you do? I just believe that HISTORY and common sense make MORE sense to me than anything coming from these people, because they can't even get together and stay on one path.

The things that are blamed for causing this are as varied as the number of people involved in it to begin with. These people blame EVERY weather anomaly on Global Warming/Climate Change. That is simply (IMHO) fear mongering. 

If someone has an opinion different from you, you act like they should be ashamed of what they believe. You throw accusatory barbs, wanting to know how everyone else has studied and all this garbage.

The last thing I am gonna say about it is that maybe instead of jumping on me or anyone else because we may feel different about this particular issue than you, you might look at the issue from another perspective.

Why don't YOU explain this SCIENTIFIC METHOD to us?

I don't think I will be swayed by someone intent on throwing common sense out the window to believe in a crackpot theory.

OH if GRAVITY is only a theory, try jumping off a garage roof, you'll have proof that it exists.

Oh, actually, I have no problem with reasoned disagreement, it's welcome, and in fact necessary for the furtherance of the understanding of the world around us.  All I request is that it be tempered with reason instead of the lame-witted recital of talking points. 

Your challenge of gravity as a theory serves only to illustrate my point: I certainly will NOT be jumping off any buildings, because the theory of gravity has withstood centuries of efforts to disprove it. 

As for educating you on the nature of scientific method, that would be inappropriate: I claim no level of expertise: only basic familiarity.  Consult any rudimentary science textbook, google, or even wikipedia (but only as a starting point, check references).  There's PLENTY of information.  All I ask is that you cease to claim your own ideas as scientific fact until you at least understand the foundation of the scientific method.  If you truly understood the scientific method, you'd understand why attacking a theory simply because it is a theory is idiotic.  Instead, you choose to let ignorance guide your nonsensical rantings.

Ya know what? Maybe you should stop attempting to talk down to people. What I posted is common sense and the basic facts I posted are proven by history.

Instead of being a know it all, why don't you do a little research on the topics I posted? You arrogance is absolutely ridiculous and all you are able to argue is that everyone else's opinion is idiotic.

I'm done with this stupid argument with someone who REFUSES to see anyone's opinion besides his own.

I keep forgetting how silly it is to argue with someone who knows everything, because they refuse to use COMMON SENSE. 

Oh?  Except I'm not even arguing with your conclusion, I'm just pointing out a massive, gaping flaw in your understanding of science.  It's a common misunderstanding, and it annoys me to see ignorance used as a foundation to any argument.  I just asked you to correct that by making the effort to understand the scientific method.  That's all.  Doesn't have a thing to do with your conclusion or with global warming.  So you can continue posting your rants if you'd like, but please, learn what the scientific method is so you can stop misusing the word theory.

[Dodge Don]

I'm sick of reading this garbage here. Unless you are a leading, acknowledged, and peer reviewed scientist in a specialty that has something to do with the climate then shut the F*%# Up. You do not know anything about the topic (pro or con). Stick to talking about Chargers or something you are legitimately qualified to comment on.

[AKcharger]

Don

That's why this section was created, to talk about something OTHER than chargers. Chargers are our 1st passion, but it's nice to have an occasional diversion/lively debate. When people feel strongly about something they can get kind of agitated, but we're adults. I'd bet a months pay,  despite the colorful discussion between members like  "defiance" and "Pettyfan" that if one needed help or advice with his Charger the other would be there in a heartbeat!

With GW you hit one problem right on the head, there are  leading, acknowledged, scientists in a specialtys dealing with climate on both sides. Considering the massive cost/loss of personal freedoms possible (both pro and con) It an interesting discussion.

Now back to our completely scientific and totally objective poll

 

[RECHRGD]

It's 5*F. outside now.  I think I can warm it up by going out to the shop and starting this thing up for awhile.  I'll let you know if it works. Bob   

[71EV2RT]

It's nice to read other people's opinions on other topics, but have you two ever heard of PMs?? Not PMS, Personal Messaging!! You don't agree, so get over it!! It's not polite to criticize others that way, never turns out good.

[Hemidoug]

If you belive in Global Warming...take a look at this and then talk to me about Global Warming....
It's all a bunch of bull caca....
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,51560.0.html

[AKcharger]

This thread is starting to go somewhere, glad it's still open so we can share

[Silver R/T]

this thread is not going anywhere, someone should lock it.

[Big Lebowski]

   The point is, everytime the Earth farts (Mt. Pinatubo)...the emissions of that 2 week volcano ='s (equals) about a hundred (100) years worth of man made Co2.
   
     Fact #1 When Gen. Washington crossed the nearly frozen Delaware river, the Earth was going through the mini-ice age 1300-1850. Are we to believe that in the 1300's the Earth cooled itself by 2* & then warmed itself by 2* around 1850...Then MAN warmed the planet by another 1* since 1850? Maybe, maybe not.

    The real scientists can't explain what caused the warming 15,000 years ago & the warming of the "little ice age" a couple of hundred years ago. The Earth warmed itself back when we thought the Earth was flat, Galileo was right and the church was wrong, and I don't believe anything our Govt. says today. So there.

[TheGhost]

It's 5*F. outside now.  I think I can warm it up by going out to the shop and starting this thing up for awhile.  I'll let you know if it works. Bob   

Please do, it's freezing outside.


Bring on Global Warming, I say.  I'm sick of snow.

[RECHRGD]

It's 5*F. outside now.  I think I can warm it up by going out to the shop and starting this thing up for awhile.  I'll let you know if it works. Bob   

Please do, it's freezing outside.


Bring on Global Warming, I say.  I'm sick of snow.

Sorry!!!  I let it run for about an hour and now the temp. is at -03F.  So much for that theory.  Bob

[Mike DC]

The point is, everytime the Earth farts (Mt. Pinatubo)...the emissions of that 2 week volcano equals about a hundred years worth of man made Co2.

Amen.

[Big Lebowski]

  Hey get this, today our newspaper reports that the Earth COOLED in 2008 back to the 1994 levels. But of course, the next article said that the polar ice caps are melting faster now than ever. I'm guessing you guys in the Fargo area are enjoying your -40* weather this week.

[SFRT]

I blame the whales. the sooner we eat them the sooner the problem is solved.

[TheGhost]

Where the hell is Global Warming now?  It's snowing like crazy here.