How much weight do you save by going with all aluminum bolt-ons (383)?

[bull]

I'm talking intake, heads, water pump, etc., basically everything that is made of aluminum that can be bolted to a 383 block. And roughly how much hp does this add when compared to a duplicate build with steel parts?

[Ghoste]

I think it's about 75 or 80 lbs. but I could be way out on that.  As for power, that's a little more difficult.  Practical power would definitely add to the scenario by virtue of the fact that you are taking nearly 100 lbs right off the front end giving you the combined bonus of less weight to carry and better weight transfer for traction.  The typical musclecar can expect to perform better roughly a tenth in quarter mile time for every 100 lbs of weight removal.  True measured power would depend on the heads used and the intake used and the camshaft to make them interact.  Is there a head and intake you are thinking of?

[flyinlow]

I put aluminum heads and intake on 440 . Shed about 75 lbs.

Headers instead of manifolds, Fiberglass bulge hood, aluminum rad. and removing A/C saved more. About 75 lbs.

Can't answer the HP. question. Depends on how well you matched the components.

[bull]

I think it's about 75 or 80 lbs. but I could be way out on that.  As for power, that's a little more difficult.  Practical power would definitely add to the scenario by virtue of the fact that you are taking nearly 100 lbs right off the front end giving you the combined bonus of less weight to carry and better weight transfer for traction.  The typical musclecar can expect to perform better roughly a tenth in quarter mile time for every 100 lbs of weight removal.  True measured power would depend on the heads used and the intake used and the camshaft to make them interact.  Is there a head and intake you are thinking of?

I've already got a dual plane Edelbrock 4bbl intake and I'm thinking about getting Edelbrock heads. Turns out my original 906 heads are pretty much junk so I'm either going to buy a rebuilt pair of 906s or a good pair of used ones to rebuild, or spend the moola to get new aluminum heads.

I've also got the aluminum water pump and housing from 440 Source, well, for sure the housing is aluminum, not totally sure about the pump itself. I'll have to look again.

[Ghoste]

In your case Curtis, I would say go for the Eddy's.  They are cheap and proven, they add power stock and respond well to massaging and by the time you rebuild a set of iron heads you'll nearly have the price of the Eddy's spent.  The Indy heads are great too but are more of higher performance piece IMO and you'll need to do and spend more to take advantage of them.  Also, any head for a 440 will fit a 383, the big block heads are all interchangable (the Max Wedge stuff require some different parts to make them work but they still bolt on any big block)

[flyinlow]

I have the Edelbrock heads. Definitely add power. Only drawback is the angled spark plugs with headers, Limited choices. Mopar aluminum heads(Edelbrock) have straight plugs.

[bull]

I have the Edelbrock heads. Definitely add power. Only drawback is the angled spark plugs with headers, Limited choices. Mopar aluminum heads(Edelbrock) have straight plugs.

You lost me. It seems as if in one sentence you're saying the Edelbrocks have angled plugs and in the next you're saying they're straight.

[firefighter3931]

I have the Edelbrock heads. Definitely add power. Only drawback is the angled spark plugs with headers, Limited choices. Mopar aluminum heads(Edelbrock) have straight plugs.

You lost me. It seems as if in one sentence you're saying the Edelbrocks have angled plugs and in the next you're saying they're straight.

Curtis, he is talking about two different head castings which are both made by Edelbrock :

(1) Edelbrock RPM which have an angled plug and require high dollar TTI headers. Stock manifolds don't work well with the angled plug head castings (Indy/Edelbrock RPM/Bulldog etc...)

(2) Mopar aluminum 452 which is identical to the RPM head and is made by Edelbrock for MP. The plugs are strait as opposed to "angled" and that is the only difference. These heads don't have any Edelbrock stampings on them...they do have Mopar scribed on the ends. The aluminum 452's will work with any header that fits a stock head as well as HP manifolds.

* option #3 would be a set of 440 source Stealth heads which also use a straight plug like a stock or aluminum MP 452 casting. If you do opt to use the Stealth heads it would be wise to upgrade the locks and retainers. 



Ron

[General_01]

MP with straight plugs.

[bull]

I've heard that the stock 452 heads are prone to cracking due to the seat hardening process; I assume this problem is not present with the aluminum version since the valve seats would be pressed in, right?

Another thing I heard from my engine guy is that he's never seen a problem with unhardened seats being run on unleaded gas so long as the valve springs are doing their job correctly (not allowing the valves to slam shut), can anyone vouch for this?

Ron, which lock/retainer upgrade would you recommend?

[General_01]

Yes. Like Ron said, these are just Edelbrock heads with different stampings on the outside and a straight spark plug hole.

Although anything can happen. Just ask Doug about his Hemi.

[bull]

Wow, those assembled Stealth heads are only $900/pair. Not a bad price at all if they're as good as they say they are. Anybody running them that could give me a review?

How much are the MP heads?

[firefighter3931]

I've heard that the stock 452 heads are prone to cracking due to the seat hardening process; I assume this problem is not present with the aluminum version since the valve seats would be pressed in, right?

Another thing I heard from my engine guy is that he's never seen a problem with unhardened seats being run on unleaded gas so long as the valve springs are doing their job correctly (not allowing the valves to slam shut), can anyone vouch for this?

Ron, which lock/retainer upgrade would you recommend?

The stock iron 452 heads are actually more desirable due to the induction hardened seats. The older 906/915/516 head castings with unhardened seats will eventually fail with UL fuel. The problem is metal transfer between the seat and valve when there is no hardening to the seat area...eventually the valves will sink into the heads. It has nothing to do with valve control and spring pressure allthough a valve float issue (inadequate seat pressure) will accelerate wear.

For the Stealth heads the Comp 10* retainers and locks are the way to go. Have a look at the 440 Source thread that is stickied at the top of the page. Mike (MFR426) posted some pics and is doing the retainer/lock upgrade this w/e on his Stealth heads.

Yes. Like Ron said, these are just Edelbrock heads with different stampings on the outside and a straight spark plug hole.

Although anything can happen. Just ask Doug about his Hemi.

I have a little more faith in Edelbrock than MP....at least the new 452 aluminum heads are built with some quality control by a respected manufacturer. The issue that Doug had/has with his MP heads is not isolated....this same type of thing has happened before with MP heads, unfortunately. 



Ron

[General_01]

I bought my MP heads from Mancini. About $1500.

Read the top thread in this section about the Stealth heads. Mally had trouble with them, but AK is using them no problem and my73charger is using them no trouble. EVERYONE is changing the retainers and locks on them though.

[375instroke]

Part	Weight savings
440 Source heads	58#
intake	25#
water pump & housing	15#
Total savings:	98#

Manual steering is 37# lighter than power, and headers are 25# lighter.

A 727 is 75# lighter than an A-833, and who knows how much A/C weighs.  Small blocks weigh the same as a slant 6, and the B motors are 95# more than that, so a manual slant 6 or small block with power steering and A/C (guess 60# for that) can weigh 200# more than a 383 A/T, mostly all up front.

[ryan053]

I used the edelbrock heads with doug thorley headers and the angled plugs fit fine with those headers

[flyinlow]

I talked to Edelbrock before I bought the Performer RPM aluminum angle plug heads. They claim they are worth 15 HP over the straight plug aluminum heads they make for Mopar  with the logo on them. The Eddys were less $ at Jegs ($1350),then the "Mopar"heads were at Mancini($1460). I  don't think the Eddys will work with manifolds. I used Hooker comps 1 7/8 headers. had to dimple a couple of tubes.
The manager at Jegs (66 hemi Belvideer owner) let me trail fit several headers after I had bought the heads from them. They did not have TTI.

Sorry for the confusion on the earlier post.

[Ghoste]

I never realized there was such a huge weight difference between a Torqueflite and a four speed.  What is the total weight for each one individually?

[Mike DC]

727s had aluminum cases.  A-833s were iron.  I'm not sure about the exact numbers but it's definitely a difference. 

[Ghoste]

That much I knew.  I have a couple of 727's laying around here so I could sneak a bathroom scale out to the shop and weight one.  That won't help on the 833 though.

[Dans 68]

Curtis,
You are going to keep all the original items you take off, right? Something about restoring back to original sometime in the future.... I probably didn't need to chime in  but I worry so as you have one of the rarest '68 4-speed Chargers ever made, and coincidentally the 2nd rarest 2nd gen Charger ever made (not counting the XX 4-speeds)....  

Dan

P.S. I have an A833 in storage that I can put on a scale...let me know. 

[375instroke]

I got my numbers from BigBlockDart.com  The A-833 is all iron, along with the gears.  The 727 internals use a lot of aluminum, along with the case.  Here are the weight breakdowns:

A-833=115#
Flywheel=35#
Clutch & Steel Bellhousing=65#

A-727=120#
Torque Converter=20#

[Mike DC]

Some aluminum A-833 cases exist, by the way. 

[Ghoste]

So according to that bigblockdart info, the 727 weighs more and there isn't 75lbs difference between them.

[tan top]

I talked to Edelbrock before I bought the Performer RPM aluminum angle plug heads. They claim they are worth 15 HP over the straight plug aluminum heads they make for Mopar  with the logo on them. The Eddys were less $ at Jegs ($1350),then the "Mopar"heads were at Mancini($1460). I  don't think the Eddys will work with manifolds. I used Hooker comps 1 7/8 headers. had to dimple a couple of tubes.
The manager at Jegs (66 hemi Belvideer owner) let me trail fit several headers after I had bought the heads from them. They did not have TTI.

Sorry for the confusion on the earlier post.

intresting angled plugs , worth 15 hp  , new they were a better than straight  ...

[General_01]

So according to that bigblockdart info, the 727 weighs more and there isn't 75lbs difference between them.

You need to add up all the components.

A-833 and clutch assembly and bellhousing is 215 lbs.

727 and torque convertor is 140 lbs.

That is the 75 lb difference he is talking about.

[Ghoste]

 

[General_01]

I talked to Edelbrock before I bought the Performer RPM aluminum angle plug heads. They claim they are worth 15 HP over the straight plug aluminum heads they make for Mopar  with the logo on them. The Eddys were less $ at Jegs ($1350),then the "Mopar"heads were at Mancini($1460). I  don't think the Eddys will work with manifolds. I used Hooker comps 1 7/8 headers. had to dimple a couple of tubes.
The manager at Jegs (66 hemi Belvideer owner) let me trail fit several headers after I had bought the heads from them. They did not have TTI.

Sorry for the confusion on the earlier post.

intresting angled plugs , worth 15 hp  , new they were a better than straight  ...

Thats because they have the Edelbrock name stamped on them.

[tan top]

I talked to Edelbrock before I bought the Performer RPM aluminum angle plug heads. They claim they are worth 15 HP over the straight plug aluminum heads they make for Mopar  with the logo on them. The Eddys were less $ at Jegs ($1350),then the "Mopar"heads were at Mancini($1460). I  don't think the Eddys will work with manifolds. I used Hooker comps 1 7/8 headers. had to dimple a couple of tubes.
The manager at Jegs (66 hemi Belvideer owner) let me trail fit several headers after I had bought the heads from them. They did not have TTI.

Sorry for the confusion on the earlier post.

intresting angled plugs , worth 15 hp  , new they were a better than straight  ...

Thats because they have the Edelbrock name stamped on them.

yeah thats probably close to the truth    ...  wonder if anyone has dynoed them back to back  , to exactly see what the difference in HP is 

[General_01]

Well, I look at it as "What else are they gonna say". If they say there is no difference, you may go with the MP heads out of preference and they get no money.

Sounds like my neighbor. I told her her boys and their buddies were climbing on the roof when she was gone. You could see the path up the roof where all the granules were wore off the shingles. We had a few hail storms and the roofing people came out canvassing the neighborhoods looking for work. She had them look at her roof. When they were done she asked if kids walking up and down the roof would cause the damage I had pointed out. Of course they said no, because if they said yes, the damage would not be covered under insurance and they knew she couldn't afford to pay for a new roof. They said it was the weather so they could get the job and get paid by her home owners insurance. And she believed them and made a point to tell me what they said.

Motives, motives, motives.

[rt green]

OK. what about the 4 speed with the aluminum bell housing?

[tan top]

Well, I look at it as "What else are they gonna say". If they say there is no difference, you may go with the MP heads out of preference and they get no money.

Sounds like my neighbor. I told her her boys and their buddies were climbing on the roof when she was gone. You could see the path up the roof where all the granules were wore off the shingles. We had a few hail storms and the roofing people came out canvassing the neighborhoods looking for work. She had them look at her roof. When they were done she asked if kids walking up and down the roof would cause the damage I had pointed out. Of course they said no, because if they said yes, the damage would not be covered under insurance and they knew she couldn't afford to pay for a new roof. They said it was the weather so they could get the job and get paid by her home owners insurance. And she believed them and made a point to tell me what they said.

Motives, motives, motives.

     yep make sence

[flyinlow]

I friend who drives a 55 Nomad said chevy used angle plugs on some heads with a HP increase claim. I would like to see the proof from Edel brock on the angle plug claim.

[bull]

Curtis,
You are going to keep all the original items you take off, right? Something about restoring back to original sometime in the future.... I probably didn't need to chime in  but I worry so as you have one of the rarest '68 4-speed Chargers ever made, and coincidentally the 2nd rarest 2nd gen Charger ever made (not counting the XX 4-speeds)....  

Dan

P.S. I have an A833 in storage that I can put on a scale...let me know. 

Yes I'll be keeping all the original stuff. Even the screwed up heads, most likely in the attic, unless they can be saved. Which reminds me, those 906 heads aren't specific to the engine are they? I mean are there any stamping on the heads other than casting numbers that say these heads came with this block?

My 833 is sitting on my garage floor so I can weigh it easy enough to check those numbers above.

[bull]

So according to that bigblockdart info, the 727 weighs more and there isn't 75lbs difference between them.

You need to add up all the components.

A-833 and clutch assembly and bellhousing is 215 lbs.

727 and torque convertor is 140 lbs.

That is the 75 lb difference he is talking about.

I wonder if this is a dry weight? One pint = one pound so how much fluid is in a 727 including the converter? Not that it will make much difference but it's something to consider. Good thing I lost about 70 lbs.

[Dans 68]

Yes I'll be keeping all the original stuff. Even the screwed up heads, most likely in the attic, unless they can be saved. Which reminds me, those 906 heads aren't specific to the engine are they? I mean are there any stamping on the heads other than casting numbers that say these heads came with this block?

Curtis,

Near as I can tell the only unique marking on the heads would be the casting numbers. Early production '68's had a part number of 2843904 with casting number of 2951250. Shortly after production started the casting number was changed to 2843906 (and thus are how the heads are known today). If they have the earlier casting number you may want to keep them (they may be rare). If they are casting "906" then no matter...any 906's will work.

Dan

[General_01]

Yes I'll be keeping all the original stuff. Even the screwed up heads, most likely in the attic, unless they can be saved. Which reminds me, those 906 heads aren't specific to the engine are they? I mean are there any stamping on the heads other than casting numbers that say these heads came with this block?

Curtis,

Near as as can tell the only unique marking on the heads would be the casting numbers. Early production '68's had a part number of 2843904 with casting number of 2951250. Shortly after production started the casting number was changed to 2843906 (and thus are how the heads are known today). If they have the earlier casting number you may want to keep them (they may be rare). If they are casting "906" then no matter...any 906's will work.

Dan

I wonder if those 2951250 heads were also used on '68's. I bought my 383 from a kid who got it out of a truck in the junk yard a few years back. It was a '68 motor and it had those heads. I already sold them with my old 383 I pulled from the car, so I don't have them anymore.

[General_01]

I did a search and it shows the 2951250 heads were used on '68 440's.

here is the link:

http://www.mopar1.us/headcastnumber.html

[Dans 68]

I did a search and it shows the 2951250 heads were used on '68 440's.

here is the link:

http://www.mopar1.us/headcastnumber.html

Yes, as far as head identification goes whatever is said about the '68 383's can be said about the 440's.

Dan

[375instroke]

Wouldn't the heads have a casting date?

Oil capacity and weight:

A-833        8.5 pts.    =  7.26#
A-904        15.5 pts.  =  13.25#
A-727 std.  18.5 pts.  =  15.81#
A-727 HP    15.5 pts.  =  13.25#

[Lifsgrt]

I run the Edelbrock heads with stock 1969 HP exhaust manifolds with no problems.