I'm considering building another garage....something special

[Magnumcharger]

Back in 1995, I built (by myself, in two weeks) a 28' x 36' garage, on a slab.
I was on a really tight budget at the time (aren't we all?), so I scrimped on a few details....which now I regret.
After weighing the options, I think it'll be easier to just take this garage apart and salvage it for building materials for the next building.
Since I already have more vehicles than the garage can hold (another common problem!), I'm mentally preparing myself for something in the "gargantuan" realm.
I'd like to have at least one lift, and maybe even a car-stacking system. In floor heating is a definate too.
The kicker is this:
I love old gas stations, so I'd like to build something that looks like the old "ice-box" style of station, designed by William Teague.
You know, the Gulf-Texaco-Esso style of the '40's - '60's era.
I'm thinking of stick-framing it, but sheathing the outside in some vintage manner. The original cladding was enamelled metal (porcelin panels), which I haven't a clue where to get them.
Any thoughts?
My design would probably be a lot deeper than the originals were, but vintage appearing on the facade.
Pictures:
Here's what I've got,
my original renovation plan idea (now scrapped),
a vintage plan,
and an original gas station picture.

[Magnumcharger]

Oh yeah, here's a sketch I worked out, and another vintage picture.

[PocketThunder]

Now that is pretty cool.  Is there a roof height in your neighborhood?

[Magnumcharger]

Nope...I'm out in the sticks. We can pretty well construct any thing we'd like, short of a drive in movie screen.
My house is about 35 feet to the peak, and I can't anticipate the garage coming in close to that.
My biggest problem is with the wind, which is rather abundant as we're situated on a hill top.

[squeakfinder]

That sounds like a cool idea. Quite a few sites with images out there..



http://groups.msn.com/ToddsHarleyPix/oldgasstations.msnw

http://www.ohiobarns.com/othersites/gas/gas.html

http://www.vintagegas.com/

http://www.familyoldphotos.com/5c/gas/index.htm

[PocketThunder]

That sure is a nice wrap around porch you have there. 

[Magnumcharger]

That sure is a nice wrap around porch you have there. 

Thanks! I designed and built that house myself. Or I should say - I continue to build....it'll never be totally done!
As I live four hours away from my house now (for work), I only get back to it on the occasional weekends. 
So, I allot a day for working on the house, which may or may not include mowing, etc, and/or a day in the garage.
Which makes Charger restoration and Deora construction that much harder to pull off.

The porch is my favorite place to be. I built a gazebo into the corner of it, primarily as a bandstand.
I like to plunk myself down on my adirondack chair, plug my Strat into my amp....and scare the deer away!

[TeeWJay426]

Heck, I'd be happy with the garage you already have....      House looks great; like the porch as well!   

[moparstuart]

Nope...I'm out in the sticks. We can pretty well construct any thing we'd like, short of a drive in movie screen.
My house is about 35 feet to the peak, and I can't anticipate the garage coming in close to that.
My biggest problem is with the wind, which is rather abundant as we're situated on a hill top.

your house look alot like the house in the steve martin , goldie hawn movie house sitter

[dodgecharger-fan]

I'm thinking of stick-framing it, but sheathing the outside in some vintage manner. The original cladding was enamelled metal (porcelin panels), which I haven't a clue where to get them.
Any thoughts?

You could make your own panels and powder coat them. That'd probably pull off the same look.

[Magnumcharger]

Nope...I'm out in the sticks. We can pretty well construct any thing we'd like, short of a drive in movie screen.
My house is about 35 feet to the peak, and I can't anticipate the garage coming in close to that.
My biggest problem is with the wind, which is rather abundant as we're situated on a hill top.

your house look alot like the house in the steve martin , goldie hawn movie house sitter

I suppose....the color scheme is similar....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ov3mBEFio

[Magnumcharger]

I'm thinking of stick-framing it, but sheathing the outside in some vintage manner. The original cladding was enamelled metal (porcelin panels), which I haven't a clue where to get them.
Any thoughts?

You could make your own panels and powder coat them. That'd probably pull off the same look.

That is an alternative I hadn't considered....

[hemigeno]

The original buildings that you're trying to replicate were porcelain-glazed masonry blocks.  A TON of schools, hospitals, gov't buildings, etc. built in the 40s-60s used that same look, even on interior walls.  It's harder than heck to get anything to match those old things. 

I think you can still get that style of material new, and it MIGHT be possible to add them to your existing walls as a veneer rather than a single wythe like they were normally cast.  Not a cheap proposition though...

Neat concept!   

[Back N Black]

Nope...I'm out in the sticks. We can pretty well construct any thing we'd like, short of a drive in movie screen.
My house is about 35 feet to the peak, and I can't anticipate the garage coming in close to that.
My biggest problem is with the wind, which is rather abundant as we're situated on a hill top.

Robin, is that Magnum in your driveway? is it your?

[Magnumcharger]

It's a 1979 Chrysler 300.
I bought it in Brandon, Manitoba back in 1991, and drove it every day for the next 9 years.
Bar none, the best car I've ever owned. No mechanical faults what so ever.
I installed the t-tops while on course in Borden in 1998, and retained the mint original paint in doing so.

[BigRed66]

Really nice 300!! Those T-Tops came out perfect, it looks like. I did notice that it seems like you're never satisfied with the wheels, tho...

[Magnumcharger]

Yeah, wheels are like the shoes on a car. (My wife would love that analogy!)
Actually, I bought a set of Magnum GT wheels from a member here at this forum, and they're on the 300 now.
No pics of that as of yet.

[moparstuart]

they put a set of aluminun wheels on the 82 ?  style magnum seen them on alot of muscle cars , Nice looking wheel

[Charger_Fan]

Here's some pics I've got stashed. This is the only one I've got of the exterior.



This one's not really a gas station type of thing, but I love the way it looks.

[Magnumcharger]

The original buildings that you're trying to replicate were porcelain-glazed masonry blocks.  A TON of schools, hospitals, gov't buildings, etc. built in the 40s-60s used that same look, even on interior walls.  It's harder than heck to get anything to match those old things. 

I think you can still get that style of material new, and it MIGHT be possible to add them to your existing walls as a veneer rather than a single wythe like they were normally cast.  Not a cheap proposition though...

Neat concept!   

Have you, as a contractor, ever purchased these panels for a construction project?

[dodgecharger-fan]

Glazed block wasn't what I envisioned by your description, but they were used in gas stations as well..

Here are some sources I found.

http://www.spectraglaze.com/
http://www.premierblock.com/glazed.shtml

I remember the gas station across the street from my house when I was a kid. It was almost like sheet metal wrapped around the whole building - overlapped and riveted, I guess. I don't exactly recall. But I'm certain of the one continuous piece that flowed around the corners of the building.
And I remember how slippery the face of the building was because it was real tough to shinny up the vent stacks at the back if the walls were wet. 

[hemigeno]

Have you, as a contractor, ever purchased these panels for a construction project?

Just to be clear, these are not panels - they are normally either 6", 8" or 12" thick x 8" tall x 16" long masonry blocks with one or more glazed faces on them that need to be laid in place with mortar.  I'm wondering if you could get them in a 4" variety that would allow them to be laid up as a veneer - much like brick would be.  There's not a huge demand for this product line anymore, so finding someone who makes the stuff in very many sizes/color varieties could be a challenge.

We don't typically perform our own masonry work, but a guy that now works for me spent 26 years as a Mason.  I'll ask him tomorrow (if I remember, that is    ) how easy it is to scare up a glazed block supplier.  I do know they are easy to chip if they're hit on the edge while laying them and impossible to match very well if you have to infill a wall opening.  You also can't paint true glazed blocks, which was part of their low-maintenance appeal.

If you wanted to replicate that look somewhat, you could veneer the exterior walls with a 4" heavyweight concrete masonry unit (CMU) which is fairly dense and has small pores.  With a generous application of white epoxy paint, you might not be able to tell the difference from very far away. 

All of my ideas about masonry veneers are predicated on your shop either having: a brickledge on your foundation; or a willingness to anchor a galvanized angle to your foundation as a support for 4" CMU of any type.  The reason I brought them up is that I remember filling stations built in that fashion, and the Gulf plan you posted specifically called out "Porcelain Faced Masonry Building".  As dodgecharger-fan mentioned, there were lots of other materials used besides glazed block - and perhaps those are easier to find. 

I might have muddied up the waters unnecessarily 

[Magnumcharger]

Nah, its all good stuff.
Yes, I'd initially considered putting a brick ledge in as part of the foundation. That being said, I've been pricing the ICF method of foundation/wall construction, and I'm intrigued by the concept, and avaliability.
Originally, I designed my house to be built in this fashion, - but true to form, I let my Scottish nature overule my rational judgement - that time.
Prices for ICF have fallen roughly into the ballpark of stick framed buildings. That being said, I guess any kind of panel that simulates my objective would definitely be considered.
I'm not restoring a gas station, just simulating one.

[PocketThunder]

Are you going to bury a gas storage tank and have a working pump out front for your own use?  Something to think about eh?  Now's a good time to buy 500 gallons or so.

[moparstuart]

Are you going to bury a gas storage tank and have a working pump out front for your own use?  Something to think about eh?  Now's a good time to buy 500 gallons or so.

that would take a ton of stabil 

[SFRT]

they make a new version of those old terracotta panels, its called ' fiberglass reinforced masonry' or something. they use it to restore old public buildings.

theres tons of old Roseville Terracotta facade buildings here and in oakland.

[Aero426]

You have a beautiful house - and keeping in mind the layout of your yard, I think what you have would look great simply finished off per your original plan.   I like the decorative windows above the garage doors.  It would be classy looking with the cosmetics in place.   The existing garage finished off with a matching roof color and siding would really compliment your house.    I wouldn't do the full-on gas station thing unless it was in the back 40 and away from the house.   The house you own today is the house you will sell someday. 

You could still do it up with some vintage signage or a vintage pump particularly on the side facing the house - stuff that can be reversed later if necessary.   

[rt green]

screw it. just build a gas station. see if anyone stops. good way to meet chicks

[FJMG]

    As far as the ICF method make sure you price everything; corner bracing, scaffold rental, small vibrator rental, concrete pump rental, etc.
    Of the few that I have placed for customers I have had at least two corners blow on each job, not a pleasant experience. To avoid this, brace the you-know-what out of the corners. I followed the manufacturers reccommendations (pour only 2.5 - 3 blocks high at a time and use $15/lft of industrial tape) every time and they still blow appart. This is where you thank the sales rep. and urge him to go back to his warm office and let you finish bracing.
     The manufacturers scaffold is the most economical way to keep the wall upright and plumb during pouring not to mention the built-in ramps for walking with the pump nozzle.
      The standard concrete vibrators that I (and most concrete guys use) is way too large for the ICF system and will almost definitely cause premature failure during the pour. This is where you do follow the Manufacturers rec. and use a very small unit (approx. 3/4" dia. or less). BTW w/o a concrete vibrator, the integrity of the concrete pour is not guaranteed. Unlike std. concrete forming you cannot strip the formwork and repair anything.
     Concrete pumps are not cheap but are usually a necessity for above grade walls.

     Also, when planning the size of the structure, disregard the idea that you can cut the ICF form on any one of the lines on the face of the ICF. Only cut midway between the plastic ties, If the ties are 8" apart then only cut 4" away. This will keep the plastic ties aligned vertically (very important), avoid the need for extra bracing and the formwork will proceed very easily.
     Lastly, check your LOCAL codes, some require that the exterior be sheathed to increase fire rating.  Many DIY's disregard this important step.

[chargerrt]

Here's some pics I've got stashed. This is the only one I've got of the exterior.





I used to have some pics of that garage stashed away too.  That is exactly how I want my own garage to be! 

[chargerrt]

You might wanna check out this thread and forum for other things garage oriented.  I really like it!

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8044&highlight=gas+station

[Magnumcharger]

Thanks for your input and links guys!
I'm definitely on the fence as to whether or not to overhaul my old garage or replace it entirely.
Here's why I say that: as I said earlier, I built the garage myself (so I really don't have anyone else to blame!), and the entire construction process was a gigantic learning curve!
Even though I had worked as an apprentice carpenter for awhile, and I also worked for a concrete contractor while I was in high school, I still managed to forget a few essential ingredients during the build.
1. I neglected to put vapor barrier under the concrete slab, which now acts like a wick, sucking water out of the ground and keeping the moisture content/humidity of the interior quite high, even in the winter. It was only good if I heated the garage...which was very expensive!
2. I used fiberglass-reinforced concrete with no wire mesh for support. Needless to say, with no vapor barrier, and no mesh, the floor is cracking and heaving like crazy.
3. The 2" x 6" x 10' walls are made out of dimensional rough-cut lumber (good). The walls also go all the way down to the floor, so water splashes up onto the sill plate, gets soaked in and is presently rotting nicely (bad). I should have made a concrete knee wall.
4. Being 10' walls, there is inadequate vertical height to have a lift. And if I tried putting one in now, it would interfere with the overhead garage doors.
5. I used a 12" x 6" steel 'I' beam for support of the second floor, and this runs across the entire width of the shop. This is good and bad. It made for an excellent trolley system, which I have used many times for pulling engines. However, I had to put a support post in the center (actually just between the bays) to keep the beam from sagging.
This eats up valuable floor space. Not to mention I had to weld two beams together to make the one.
6. The upstairs was originally planned to be just an open space in the rafters for storage, but as I continued to build, I came up with the idea of making it a living space, and framed it as such. Problem is, I only used 2' x 6' x 14' boards for the floor, which makes it far too bouncy, and over time they have started to bow in the center from the weight of the roof.

Like I say, it was a learning curve making this garage, which greatly benefitted me when it came time to build my house. Knowing what I know now, I'd like to rectify some of my mistakes.

I just found this page with a garage very similar to my idea!!
http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/3435/page/1/perpage/12/what/allfields

[FJMG]

    Just a couple of notes Magnumcharger;
2- consult a local  stuctural engineer and do the foundation correctly. We don't install bicycle tires on road race cars and we should start every permanent structure with a proper foundation and base preparation.
3- A conc. knee wall is great but you may prefer to just use a PWF sill and slope the conc. floor to the center and provide a sump with a floor grate to drive on, you just need to be aware of the local code req'ts for garage sump discharge (very important in freezing climates) . this way there is no water at the perimeter.
5- If one dimension of your building is 30-32' or less then forget the steel beam, use 24"-26" deep wood web floor trusses and span directly accross to support a living area, these are MUCH simpler and faster to install. Most people when pricing floor systems comprising 2x10" or 12" floor joists coupled with a steel or lam. wood beam with post(s) forget to add the cost of the beam, post(s), labour to install these items and the cost of foundation below posts (most slabs are NOT designed for any significant point loads, depending on the configuration, these loads are significantly greater than any single tire wheel load). When you add everything up with the labor (even it is free) you will find the clear span system very competitive if not more economical.
   On the down side (yes there is one) there is about a foot of extra wall to cover on the exterior.
6- 2x6 is barely adequate for a clg. see note above.

[Magnumcharger]

Yup...like I said, I learned alot...about how not to do something!
Fortunately, I believe I'll be able to recycle a lot of the structural materials in this building.
The wall framework (10'), the floor boards upstairs (14'), and the rafters themselves (18') are all excellent 2" x 6" spruce boards. As well, the wiring, fixtures and panel are all new.
And the other good news; the concrete only cost me 2k back in 95.....and after I bust it up, I'll use it for some real good base material for the ground under the new building...after it's adequately compacted that is.

Another cool garage:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23563103@N05/sets/72157604024444263/

[Magnumcharger]

So, here it is 2015, and I'm finally updating this thread! In the interval I built a very nice 32' x 45' workshop! And my old garage...it's getting torn down next month! I've got a new foundation poured for what I'm now calling the "car garage", which will be 28' x 36', as the old garage was. Still planning on recycling the lumber from the previous garage as well. And, this new garage will be attached to the house via a breezeway.

[tan top]

    sounds like  a good set up     

[skip68]

  
Awesome.  We'll need pictures and an address.   OH, we'll also need a complete list of tools and vehicles if it's not that much trouble.   

I think the breeze way is a great idea.   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

 Something along the lines of this will do the trick...........

[birdsandbees]

You want it bright, with a clean look to boot, go with galvanized roofing on the ceiling!

[bakerhillpins]

   wow. Never would've guessed that galvanized roofing for a ceiling would be a good option but there it is.